Printable View
I've read it--highly recommended! I got a copy from Amazon as soon as it came out. It does talk quite a bit about barefoot/minimalist shoe running. Really quite inspiring as far as the possibility of running a lot without getting injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelownagirl
VFF KSO: okay, girls... since I saw this thread this morning, I have been looking at these shoes. I have been running nearly every day since I was 13 - I am 34 now. In the past couple of years, age or gravity or something has snuck up on me, and I have really noticed things coaches have been telling me my whole life. That is, one leg is a fair bit longer than the other. I (apparently) compensate in my pelvis. I also pronate fairly severely. I did, however live barefoot the entire time I lived aboard a sailboat. I don't remember any aches or pains then (I was a fair bit younger though). I enjoy running long distance in the high country... so, whaddya think? Should I give these shoes a try? I mean, if I can't run in them, at least I can wear them around and about... I hear they stink (as do all cool shoes ... chacos), anyone have a solution for this? I work in a lab. It is feasible that I could wear them to work if I can control the stink... What do you think about this leg length issue? About the pronation? I think I'll buy them anyway - if I can't run terribly long distance in them, at least I can pretend I live aboard again :rolleyes:
As far as the leg length issue, it seems to me that it could be compensated for by how much you bend your knees, but I'm not an expert on that type of issue--maybe someone with a background in PT etc. could speak to this. The pronation, from what I understand, tends to be less of an issue when barefoot or in minimal shoes because of the difference in how your foot contacts the ground (as was said earlier in the thread, heel-first running barefoot would be really unpleasant). The VFFs certainly can stink after wearing them for a while, but they can be washed in the washing machine and air-dried. Another thing that is helpful for getting rid of the "funk" is soaking them overnight in a vinegar/water solution and then rinsing thoroughly. Wearing Injinji socks/toe socks also helps keep it from getting bad as quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ginny
thanks for the vinegar idea... I will also look up those socks. I wonder how in tarnation I will use these shoes in the winter here... alas, a river I will cross in a few months. I bought the shoes :D I will keep you all updated. I had a sneaking suspicion part of my issues in my old age have to do with all the orthotics/shoes etc I am wearing these days... well, we will see
So, I spent a good deal of my weekend working around the home. I was barefoot and on my feet for *most* of it. Funny thing I noticed? My heels started to hurt long before my forefoot did. I think I've now trained my feet to hit heel first and it hurts when I am not wearing shoes. I think that once I start running, that'll change because I know that I run more on the balls of my feet.
Another funny thing I noticed? I spent a LOT of my time in the kitchen (making & canning strawberry jam - yum!) and for the first time since we moved in, my back never hurt. Usually, extended time in this kitchen makes my back hurt something awful (I haven't figured out why). Maybe without shoes, the counter is a better height for me? What ever it is, I'm THRILLED about it.
Other than the achy heel, my feet felt fine. I think it's time to start jogging around the yard a little each day. If I can't do that safely, then I'll do it on the treadmill until I can swing the cash for some VFF's. :)
I am going to be doing a sprint triathlon in July that includes a 3.1 mile run. If I continue to feel as good as I have running in the VFFs I would like to use them in the tri. Has anyone done this? I don't think I will be ready to run totally barefoot by then. The main issue will be getting the little buggers on quickly. It is still a little quirky getting all the toes into their right little spaces. Any helpful hints?
I've been wondering about this, too, but don't have anything to offer. Do you bike without socks?Quote:
Originally Posted by wavedancer
If you think about it, does it really take any longer to put on VFFs than it does to put on running shoes and tie shoelaces? For me at least there doesn't seem to be much difference at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by wavedancer
I have been using elastic Yanks on my running shoes, so I just pull them on. I sometimes don't get my toes lined up just right and have to do some readjusting with the VFFs. In the long run, at my level, it probably will not make a lot of difference. Although, in my first race this year I missed first place in my age group (60-64) by just 6 seconds!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt
MDHillSlug: I have never biked without socks...I think it is quicker to put on my low-cut smart wools than to try to jam my wet feet into my cycling shoes...but maybe not.
I bike and run in socks, too. I was just thinking about having to put on the socks for the bike and then take them back off to put on the VFFs.Quote:
Originally Posted by wavedancer
I've been wearing my VFFs around the house (an a few times outside) but haven't tried running in them yet. I'm thinking of trying them on the HS track the first time. Probably before I get to that I want to stop using the custom orthotics in my running shoes.
I received my VFF KSOs ... last Friday. I thought they were too small. My pinkie toe wasn't happy being separated from my other toes. I have been wearing them every other day, and the last time I wore them (Monday), I consciously relaxed my feet, and... wha la, they fit :) My pinkie toe didn't have a problem. I was able to run and jump and play in them... it was fun. The next day I noticed the muscles in my lower calves were a bit sore - probably because I have been running in big wedge running shoes forever... but I'm taking it slowly and it's going well. The dogs have fun chasing me around grassy fields for now too... :rolleyes:
Cool! As for the sore calf muscles, that's totally normal. I can remember my calves hurting for the first week of running in the VFFs. Do make sure you're not pushing off too much from your toes--that overworks the calf muscles and could lead to Achilles issues. Your propulsion should come mainly from your hip muscles with some contribution from the "elastic recoil" of the feet/calves (this is what I'm learning from Evolution Running, which I just started using this week and I'm liking it a lot so far).Quote:
Originally Posted by ginny
What is Evolution Running?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt
It's a DVD that teaches efficient running technique, in a similar vein with Pose and Chi Running. The basic premise is that the reason the African runners are so good is because they are efficient due to having grown up running barefoot, and that we can use the same techniques to improve efficiency and reduce injuries. The proper form is broken down into all its components, with excellent demonstrations and drills to reinforce each. They don't suggest running barefoot but I think they should ;). I decided to go with this over Pose or Chi Running because it seemed more straightforward than these others and it draws its technique pointers from a known group of efficient runners, who got that way by running barefoot, which is how our bodies are designed to function.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDHillSlug
I'm bummed. I was feeling really good with my initial 3-4 runs with VFFs. I did a 2-mile trail run about 10 days ago that felt really good while I was doing it, but ever since then I have had some pain across the top of my foot when walking or running barefoot. I rested for a week without doing any runs and tried again 2 days ago. I still had some pain, but not enough that I felt I had to stop. It's still sore today, but better while waering shoes. I'm wondering if I should try running in shoes for awhile, or maybe try taping my foot to give it a little support. Poo...I can't seem to get to a period longer than a few weeks of runnig without some sort of injury :(
just FYI everyone, I found those evolution videos on line: http://www.5min.com/Video/An-Introdu...ing-4-29683892 (that's for the 4th clip...) anyway, I haven't watched them all yet; I do not know if they are all there, but it at least gives a good idea of whether you want to spring for the DVD or not...
G
I just watched the 5 videos. Looks interesting. How easy is it to take what you see/learn in the DVD and apply it to your running?Quote:
Originally Posted by ginny
For anyone interested in barefoot running, there is a wonderfully supportive and informative barefoot runners forum on runnersworld.com which has been invaluable to me as a newly converted barefoot/minimalist runner. I encourage you to check it out: Barefoot Running Forum
Thanks for the link! It helped answer many of my questions/concerns. I think I tried to do too much as a new runner and new barefoot/VFF runner at the start. I have had to back off and let some tendons and ligaments in my feet heal up and get used to what I am asking them to do. I have been having some pain that I didn't experience until after doing 3-4 runs in the Vffs. I am now doing some of my runs in my supportive shoes and shorter runs in the VFFs. I have only done a couple of short runs on grass and on the beach totally barefoot. I do remember the ease and joy I felt when I first ran unshod, though, and will get back there. I just need to go a little more slowly...Quote:
Originally Posted by meridian
I have really noticed it low in my calves - I guess from not having my heels elevated running in the VFF's. I have been taking it really slowly, but it's fun! I feel like bigfoot when i see my 'feet prints' on the dirt trails. I would love to hear other runners when they see the feet prints :D
Hi everyone. I've been barefooting for 2 1/2 weeks now and I thought I'd share my experiences/observations in case it can help anyone.
I initially became interested in BFR because in the past 3 years that I've been running I've suffered one injury after another - plantars fascitis, shin splints, achilles tendonitis, and finally posterior tibial tendonitis (this one has been the worst!). With the PTT, I could barely run at all without screaming pain behind my ankle, and I basically had to take 2 full weeks off before it stopped hurting even when I was walking. At that point I decided things couldn't get worse and that it was time to try BFR.
I started off around 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile at a time and have built up to a 3 miler this week. So far it is absolutely AWESOME! None of my trouble spots have bugged me during this time and running has been an absolute blast. My calves have been tight, but I'll take tightness any day over chronic injuries! I've been alternating completely barefeet with my VFF sprints (love them!).
I also have to 2nd the recommendation for Born to Run. It is one of the best books I have ever read and just a fabulous story.
Hello! I am reviving this thread! Could I get updates on how you are all doing with this? I am dying to know...I am thinking about putting my "toes in the water" (haha!) of barefooting, and I would love to hear how this has been going for all of you through the fall!
I've been wondering this myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by kacie tri-ing
I've put any thoughts of barefooting (in VFFs) for a while due to an Achilles injury I sustained while wearing my normal motion control shoes but I'm still working on forefoot running.
I posted this in this week's running thread, but I'll add it here too:
I've been experimenting with some barefoot running on the treadmill lately. This is in addition to my attempt to learn Chi Running. I started with just a couple of minutes to allow my body to get used to the new workout. Now I'm up to 0.75 miles at a time.
I'm still getting little hot spots on the balls of my feet, which I attribute to soft skin that needs to toughen up, and some soreness in my calves and ankles. However, I'm amazed that I have a lot less hip and knee pain! And it's an immediate decrease- I take my shoes off and my IT band and knee feel better almost instantly.
I can't explain what I'm doing differently while barefoot, compared to shod running, but it's been enough to convince me to buy a pair of VFFs when they come back in stock.
I was very enthusiastic about barefoot and VFF running in the late spring and early summer. So enthusiastic that I started doing a bit too much too soon ("TMTS" on the barefoot running forums). I was also trying to get my mileage up a bit as a new runner so I could do some 5K runs in some sprint tri's over the summer. The result was some new foot pain that I had not experienced as a shod runner. I had to cut way back on my running in general and took a complete break from it for about 4 weeks after my last tri in September.
I waited until the tendinitis in my foot (PTT) was barely noticeable before starting out in the VFFs again. This time I have taken it very slowly. Started with no more than 1/4 mile at a time, and have gradually gotten backup to being able to do 3+ miles. I did a 5K on Thanksgiving in the VFFs and felt great! Got a few curious comments and questions from other runners, and piqued the interest of at least a couple of them.
The PTT is not 100% healed, and I can feel some discomfort after running. I have been taping it to give some support when I am on my feet all day, but it doesn't seem to be giving me too much grief so far. I know it is important to really let it heal, or it can become a chronic problem.
The hip pain that I was experiencing when running in my"supportive shoes" has not been a problem at all. I think that by artificially supporting the foot, you just transfer the strain farther up.
It is starting to get cold here, and my VFFs are not giving me quite enough warmth, even with some toe socks. I have just ordered a pair of Feelmax Niese from Barefoot Ted. They are some minimalist shoes from Finland that should provide a little more warmth, especially with regular Smartwool socks. I tried using some old water shoes, but they soles were not flexible enough and I felt like a jogging duck! I hope I can continue to run with the FeelMax shoes through the winter. I haven't done any treadmill running...don't really want to :rolleyes:
I am committed to staying with the barefoot/minimalist running. I find it gives me much more joy. I just need to be mindful and listen to my body so I don't keep injuring myself.
Wave- Be sure to keep us updated on the feelmax shoes! I am more than a little bit curious. Which style did you get?
I have been running 40-50% of my runs in vffs the last few months, but now that the snow has fallen I will not be able to continue that throughout the winter. Like you, dreadmills are not for me. I run outside even when it's -20f Pretty sure the VFF Flow w/ injinjis wont be tolerable for that though, :(
Anywho, glad you are enjoying pain free running!
Ran for the 4th time in my VFFs today. I went out in the wet, 40 degreeish weather thinking it would be a good experiment. I love running in them so much, I wanted to see how they did with puddles etc.
I have cut socks leaving a little scrap of fiber between my big toe and the rest of my toes. These work to keep the main part of my foot warm.
Toe socks don't work for me because I have reeeeeally short toes.
Anyhow. So, I banged out 6 miles, 6 HILLY miles mind you, like they were nothing. 6 miles on a route that usually kicks my butt. In my VFFs, in the rain, and they got wet, and my feet got wet, but it is such a cool way to run. And I do not have the pain in my knee I've been getting these days, so that's good. I love these shoes. Thanks for the inspiration to go out and get them because they are so worth it.
I got the Feelmax Niesa's yesterday and took them out for my morning run today. 27 degrees, smartwool socks, toasty toes!! They are super comfortable with probably a thinner sole than the VFFs, but it is very rugged and supple. I am so excited to have some minimalist shoes that I should be able to use through the winter. They are even cute enough to wear as casual shoes in addition to running shoes.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...sr=8-1-catcorr
Wave- Woohoo!! I might need to get a pair of those. Which style did you get?
(guess it would help if I read the post title, eh?)
My cold-weather minimal shoe solution is the Teva Proton water shoes with thick wool socks. So far, this seems to be working pretty well--not quite the same as VFFs, but much warmer and still not a clunky shoe. I can also put Stabilicers Sport over them if necessary for traction, and can even use short gaiters with them to keep out snow. I wonder how those Feelmax shoes are--does any store in the area carry them where one could try them on?
Jolt: I don't know of any retail stores in the US that are carrying the Feelmax shoes. They have just become available in the US this year. There are a couple of US online stores that have them. One is an oddly milataristic-looking site: Extreme Outfitters
I got them from directly from Barefoot Ted, but now he seems to just link to the other site.
You can get them also from Gifts From Finland. They also have an Amazon storefront.
If I hadn't found these, I probably would have gone with my old neoprene kayaking booties. I figure I can also use these in the spring or summer for triathlons, although I would like to be able to run truly barefoot next summer :)
Okay call me cheap, but I am seriously looking at a pair of $15 Old Navy Ugg style boots with cheap flip-flop foam bottoms, to wear over a pair of thick alpaca boot socks.
It can't hurt to try, I guess. It will be like running in socks more than VFFs.
Has anyone here tried treadmill running with the VFF's? I'm interested in trying them, but I don't do cold-weather running due to my asthma. All of my running during the winter months, is done on the gym treadmills. I'm just wondering if I would reap the same benefits using them on a TM vs. outdoor running? I understand the need to build up slowly with them...so what would be an ideal amount of time/mileage for my first run in them? I typically run shod, for about 30-40 minutes at a 5.7 - 6.0mph pace...so, at a 10+ minute per mile pace, I'm pretty slow. My lower back simply cannot handle a higher running pace...so this is the range at where I stay for all of my runs.
Linda
I am giving running a shot with a tiny bit of barefoot and a smaller amount with KSO vibrams and I hope it works. I really love the idea of this.
I bought the VFF sprint shoes almost 2 weeks ago. I have no arch- I have totally flat feet and I overpronate severely. I've been running in motion control shoes with custom orthotics for 5 years now. I've had so many knee and ITB issues since starting to run that I've decided it's time to try barefooting it to see, if in fact, it's the shoes that are making me injured.
I've worn them to work and walking around (to get used to them slowly), but I haven't yet run in them. I'm going to try some running tomorrow.
I LOVE the VFF's. I can tighten the strap across the arch to make it more supportive in my arch when I need it. They are GREAT!!:)
Where do you work that you can wear VFF's there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri Girl
I'm trying to figure out how to get from motion control + custom orthotics to VFF's without injuring myself.
I'm sort of in the same boat as you. I really want to try VFF's, but I'm a bit hesitant given my past history with ongoing foot issues. I'm currently wearing (and have always worn) stability shoes with an OTC heat-moldable insert. I have a set of custom orthotics that my podiatrist had made for me, but after 3 adjustments to them, I still cannot comfortably wear them while running. So I've pretty much given up on them and they are now $600 dust-collectors. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by MDHillSlug
Two years ago, I had a bad case of PF/heel spur in my left foot...but it seems to be under control at the moment and is not causing any pain now. However, I do have a toe-numbing/tingly issue on my right foot which generally flares up anytime I run over 3 miles. I'm not sure if it's a friction/swelling issue, a nerve issue, or what...but it's really annoying and frustrating...and I've tried dozens of different running shoes in hopes of resolving this problem with no success so far. I would love to try a minimalist shoe like the VFF's, but fear that I will still have the toe pain issue. Any ideas on how I could go about making the transition a little easier and less painful?
Posture! Posture! Posture!
I'd say that 95% of the patients I see for "pronation" are a posture problem, and at most maybe 5% are a structural problem.
To find your good foot posture, it really helps to have someone work with you who knows what makes the lower extremity pronate and how to un-pronate it. It's not just the foot, it's everything from the hip down which pronates.
For starters, stand in front of your mirror in your underwear. (or a pair of shorts if you are shy) Stand like you normally stand. Note your hips: do they look wide? Note your knees: do they look narrow and bent backwards? Are your kneecaps looking kind of cross-eyed? Are your ankles wider than your knees? (like Betty Boop) Is your inside ankle-bone hanging out over empty space? Is your arch flattish? Are you standing duck-footed?
Those are all subtle hints that you are pronating (which is the entire leg, remember!)
How to unpronate: straighten your feet. Pull your lower belly flat. Tuck your tailbone under (don't stick your @$$ out like Betty Boop). Squeeze your buns together a little. Unlock your knees. Quick! Look at your feet! Where is your ankle and how is your arch? If the arch has returned and your inside ankle bone is now over the inside of your foot instead of outer space, this is what caused your pronation - GIRL HIPS. If the foot still looks sloppy and the ankle is still hanging to the inside of the foot, try pushing the outer edge of your foot into the ground. You may have a combination of sloppy girl hips and sloppy-foot-desperately-trying-to-clutch-at-the-ground.
Whatever you did to fix your foot posture, work on making that your habit. Usually you can play with it all in front of the mirror and figure out which one thing makes the rest of it line up. (in my case tucking my butt back where it belongs, instead of sticking it out like a baboon in heat which flops my belly flab out over my waistband and locks my knees and pronates my feet)
If you can't do anything with your muscles to even change your foot posture the slightest bit, then you need some custom orthotics and structural help.
Get your foot posture up and running, and barefoot running will go much easier. (I prescribe barefoot running to help teach posture, as well.)
Take off your right shoe and sock. Look at the sole of your right foot. Look at the ball of your right foot. Is there a nice callus (or thick skin) under the ball of your big toe? There should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by nscrbug
Is there a callus or thick skin under the ball of your pinky toe? There should be.
Is there a callus or thick skin under the ball of any other toe? NOT such a good thing. From what you describe I expect there is one under the ball of the second (index) toe or the one next to it. Or maybe between the ball of the big toe and the index toe.
If there is a callus or thick skin, you probably have a dropped met head which is causing compression on one of the nerves that runs through the ball of the foot.
It's not a big deal, it's pretty easy to correct with exercises, and it often goes along with a postural pronation issue.
Let me know if you need the exercises.
(I'd get them rolling before starting the barefoot running, so the running can help you get the metatarsal arch back up to strength)
I think I need them:) All sorts of alarm bells went off for me when I read this - I think this explains why I have a very tough callous that goes from the callous under my big toe to by 4th toe. I've noted it before, and noted pain in bike shoes, but hadn't investigated much further. Barefoot doesn't hurt, interestingly. Of course, I'm only walking. I have a bit much weight to want to subject my knees to running until I can lose a little - or a lot (until then, spinning and walking as much as possible, plus some strength training).Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
I swear you should write a book - or offer a weekend class or something. Shoot - I'd fly to Seattle for one:)
CA