In some cultures it's very traditional and typical for the adult children take care of aging parents. It used to be the norm in more cultures, but it seems like the concept of extended family is really going by the wayside.
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In some cultures it's very traditional and typical for the adult children take care of aging parents. It used to be the norm in more cultures, but it seems like the concept of extended family is really going by the wayside.
Ca, that was not the reason I had kids, it's just I've heard a lot of people who looked back and realized that this is part of what having families is all about. You take care of them and they take care of you.
It's not about spending all your money so you have to move in with your kids, it's about the possibility that you might lose your mind, and who would you rather took care of you, some strangers, or someone who loves and cares about you.
I also agree with the gal who just said, don't have kids unless you are willing to give them your ALL, because that's what they need. Kids aren't like pets, you can't get rid of them once you don't like them any more. They are the most incredible commitment. When you're at your sickest, your weakest most miserable moment, your child is going to need you. Having kids taught me that I can do almost anything. And unless you are really lucky, you will find that your family support group tends to not be there when you need help caring for those kids. I think Raleighdon and I were child-free for 4 evenings in the first 7 years and 1 overnight.
I think one advantage parents have over childless people is that we have all been childless at one point, but the currently childless have never been parents. Thus, I would give more credence to the parent's arguments for or against, than the childless.
Karen
I can't agree with that either. I have some very wise friends who have never had children. Because they didn't have kids doesn't mean that their decisions aren't good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
The bottom line is what you want. You can get all our opinions all day long, but
pretend to decide. Ok, kids it is. How do you feel?
or Okay, no kids. how does THAT feel?
If you decide to have kids, know it's not going to be easy, but what in life really is? For most of us, the benefits outweigh the difficulties, although when you have a sick 2 year old and a hungry infant and your husband just got home wondering where dinner is, sometimes, it just doesn't seem like it!
it will make you stronger.
To clarify-
I didn't mean to imply that anyone on TE decided to have or not have kids based on elder care. I agree, many cultures have it ingrained in them to care for the elderly. And in a loving family, I think it's what happens, and what should happen. I certainly don't have a problem with it. I'm actually the person who generally takes care of my grandmother (taking her to the doctor, etc) because her own kids are too busy and "she can take transportation from her retirement home" (which frequently makes her wait 2+ hours on either side of an appointment).
In many states, there is actually a law on the books requiring that children financially support indigent parents. They aren't often enforced now, but they're there, and there's somewhat of a push to enforce them more.
However, I've had people suggest to me that I should have a child exclusively for that reason (as a retirement policy). That's what I really object to. I think when people choose to have children for that reason, the child generally figures it out. Not good for the child or the parent.
Elder care is really a tough issue, and perhaps a topic not appropriate here. Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't suggesting kids shouldn't take care of their parents:)
I did not want to have one when I was in early-mid 20's. Then, I had an ooops that I miscarried after 14 weeks. I felt the early kicks. It was amazing! Then, I realized (after the miscarriage) that maybe I did want a kid. So, after two months, I was in the green. I got to 24 months and almost died. I lost her too because I have two (Jewish and not a Jew in my family) blood clotting diseases. After that, we tried again and I lost the third at 8 weeks. Docs told me I would do best to stop trying and start living. Ex-DH and I could not get over the losses and divorced. I married my childhood sweetheart two years later. I got pregnant in 2 months. With A LOT of assistance (blood thinners, drugs, etc.), I had a normal little boy who is both the air that I breathe and the frustration I can get. He was not costly, I breastfed for 8 months (free!). His clothes were all and still are from a second-hand store. My mother gets him new stuff. He is not a huge eater. What used to be leftovers are smaller because he gets a portion. Diapers are expensive, but I got a book about teaching them early on about potty (some native thing) and he learned and is doing very well. We go out often. Our activities have changed some, no riding together as much and the park has become our friend. We do get away, my mom takes him a week in the summer and a week over Christmas. When he gets older, we should be able to do more with him. I pulled him in a trailer outside, even when it is cold. When he was fussy, this would help him to sleep. The cold air was great at getting him to sleep. We have had an easy baby. He slept through the night at 3 months, starting solids at 5, potty trained at 20. I can't imagine my life without him. Something my mother told me (as a fan of Dr. Rosemond) is that the baby should not be the center of your life, but you are the center of his life. So, we have done this.
I was talking about their decisions about parenting, not any decision. Specifically, their choices to believe what they do about the nature of children and parenting them.Quote:
I can't agree with that either. I have some very wise friends who have never had children. Because they didn't have kids doesn't mean that their decisions aren't good.
Karen
oh, you mean, like "when I have kids,MY children will never act like that...!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
(as your child is laying face down in safeway screaming because you said "no")
bwahahaha... right.
When I was 28, I told my mom I did not want children. Her heart sank. Prior to my 30th birthday, she told me if she had to do it all over again she would live her life exactly as I am living it right now. She loves her kids and all of us (even as adults) come first in her life, but if she had another chance she would not have gotten married at all (which for her also means not having kids). She would have went to college (she eventually went . . . in her 50's) and lived the past 30-40 years of her life single and full of adventures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
Neither party to this thread has an advantage over the other. Even if you are a parent, you still do not know what is ahead of you. You know what you experience and maybe, what will happen the next day. You do not know what raising your teenager will be like until it happens. Sure, you've heard stories. You were a teenager yourself. But, that is all you can go on.
I do not want children not because they are icky. I do not feel superior. Just made a decision based on what I know about myself, what I know of the experience (being the child and through others), and what I want in life.
I've been told that my mind will change when I meet a man I truly love and want to share my life with. We'll see. I am dating a man that does not want kids either (he's snipped), so I do not see that happening. Should my mind (or his) change and it is no longer naturally possible, well, there are lots of kids in this country that need homes. Until that event happens, I accept my decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
I disagree. I have quite a few friends who are childless by choice. Who am I to argue with what they believe in their heart of hearts is the right choice for them?
I am 27 (nearly 28), married 5 years. DH is 28. Neither of us want children now and are beginning to wonder if we ever will. When we got married it was a deal breaker for both of us, I wouldn't marry a man who didn't want kids. Couldn't have would be different but didn't want no way. DH and I have both realized we are quite selfishly content kidless. His little brother has kids and thinks they were a blessing (first one was a oopsie). I see them as a burden if they were in MY life.
I don't know that I won't go back to wanting them but I do know I will not have children without wanting them. My father was put in foster care at 3 years old because his mother died and his father could not handle the burden of 3 children. He was not outright adopted until he was 8 years old after bouncing to a relatives for a bit then back in the system. If I have a kid they will be wanted and I take every precaution to make sure we have that choice. Maybe my own father's feelings about his birth family and what he went through shaped me, I don't know. My brother was "wanted but earlier than my parents planned" and they always thought of us both a the biggest gift in the world. I just don't see children as that for me, yet?
Biciclista- I can imagine raleighdon chatting up to your pregnant belly at that time. :)
As for who will look after/look out for the childless in old age... We do need to take a hard look and be aware that quite a number of the elderly are left to their own devices. And some where their adult children don't visit /communicate at all to isolated/frail parent(s). To me, that is very heartbreaking after all those early years of loving and caring a baby/child.
And there are some awfully selfish adult children who expect their aging parents to still cover certain expenses/assist in mortgages, when parents may not have much in the way of assets, themselves to enjoy their retirement years.
Tuckerville:
It is very heartstopping to think there are some people in this world who shouldn't have been a parent in the first place due to their prolonged physically abusive behaviour to their own children.
So self-knowledge of one's own limits could have saved some lives/trauma of others.
I know for myself that whenever a friend/acquaintance chatted excitedly about wanting a child or having their imminent child about to be born, I would feel...nothing. No excitement, no longing, no regret. Nothing. And that feeling kept on persisting over and over.
And it got tested again when I met and fell for my guy who already had 2 children. The opportunity presented itself..again...did I want to assume a mother role? No.
I only mention my scenario, since compared to 50 years ago, there are now more 2nd (and 3rd) marriages / relationship involving children from previous marriages where a childless partner needs to have their eyes wide open and consider all factors if they want to assume a parent role.
We're talking about someone trying to make a decision, here. There's no doubt there are happy people who are childless and happy that way. If it were me, I'd give more credence to someone who has been on both sides. That's the advantage they have in this argument. (I use the term argument in the academic sense.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
Karen
I wasn't crazy about babies when I got pregnant. And at the time, I was fairly young (25), and in a tenuous relationship, had no money, and was about to go to school on scholarship for a semester in a different country. I wasn't really happy about being pregnant. But, I am glad I had my daughter.
I stopped at the one, though, and I'm glad I did.
My DH does not want children. He accepts and loves my daughter, but I don't think more children are an option at all.
There is nothing wrong with not wanting kids.
thank you everyone for your input! This is going to be a long post...
I have just come back from a 4 day trip to Las Vegas with my mother.
Just this morning at the airport we were having a conversation about the "you'll regret not having kids later when you're alone and nobody's there to care for you". I also reminded her that I wasn't going to pop a kid just so I can have someone to care for me when I'm old.
She said that's not what she meant; now that she's lost both her parents and then last month her older brother, she now only has her younger brother and she said that's a lonely feeling. Lonelier made still if she didn't have me or my brother (and his kids).
Just because you have a child doesn't guarantee that child will be in your life later on. S/he could move away to another country, you may not end up being close, etc.
I also suspect that my mother should not have had children. She was exceptionally hard on us, and had very high expectations that were extremely difficult to live up to. She often made me feel bad when I didn't get the grades she wanted me to, and she often compared me to my brother or my peers "why can't you be more like your brother/friend"?
I also know that if I do have children, then I know what NOT to do to them. I certainly won't play the "why can't you be more like..." game, and I will hug them every single day. I can't remember the last time I touched my mother, let alone hugged her (it goes both ways, we're just not a touchy-feely family).
It's not too late to hug your mother!
We weren't demonstrative when I was a kid, either. But my parents got divorced at about the same time I became a mom, and I just decided I would hug and kiss my mother and father more and tell them I loved them, and I wanted my child to have that kind of life. It started a cascade of affection that is still tumbling to this day.
Karen
Doubtful that my mother ever dreamt that she and her children ...can barely speak the same language anymore now. If there is something complex she expresses in Chinese from her heart...we can't understand her. And vice versa. Linguistic barriers is a common problem across cross-cultural generations..and it's no joke when things get tough between parent and child. It can be a serious barrier to harmonious family communication.Quote:
Originally Posted by badger
Somehow becoming a parent...is probably best..not to know in advance, the risk, of the worst that lies ahead to climb over that mtn. to get to greater rewards.
I have to credit my sisters who have children, that they each consciously adopted a different style of child discipline and showing non-verbally love for their children compared to our parents.
Badger did you ever read book/see movie, "The Joy Luck Club"? Parts abit sappy, but so true for some mother-daughter relationships.
god, the Joy Luck Club was one of the most difficult films I ever watched (or read). It was so painfully familiar to me.
The cultural differences definitely played a huge part in the difficulties we had and still have. My mother's Japanese; I was born there and moved to Canada when I was 10 (my dad, incidentally is from Europe so Canada was foreign to all of us). So when I adopted the Canadian lifestyle and mentality, the years through my teens were exceptionally difficult. Good girls in Japan don't do half the things I did, so it was really hard trying to grow up in my household.
I left home at 20, which wasn't soon enough. My parents left for Japan again at that point, and we essentially became strangers. They moved back to Canada 3 years ago, and we have a tentative relationship that can easily get unbalanced if I spend too much time with my mother. I went to Las Vegas with her just this week and it was at times very trying.
We're not close at all, and that's tough but we manage the best we can. So yeah, the Joy Luck Club hits way too close to home.