RANT: Leashes!!!!

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

This happened to me, but we were the small-dog owners. Our neighbor's golden retriever picked up our Boston Terrier Pepper (the BT we had before our current pup Paisley) and shook her. I know that Pepper instigated the "attack" because she didn't like other dogs at all, unfortunately. BUT...there were mitigating circumstances: this happened on OUR property (neighbors dogs ran onto it when they saw our dog), and our dog was on leash, our neighbor's dog was not. So, I didn't feel guilty taking the payment he offered for our vet bill. Pepper was pretty seriously hurt...scary.

We never, ever let any dog of ours off leash off our property. Since I fractured my pelvis in my road-cycling accident three years ago due to loose dogs running out at me, I'm absolutely adamant about this.

Emily

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Emily - In that case, yes, they should pay the bill! My parents had to do that once because their big golden yanked the leash out of their hands and chased a dog into a bush where they couldn't reach her. Luckily, the small dog didn't fight back after the initial 'attack' so injuries were light.

In my case, my dog WAS on a leash...theirs wasn't. I only had to pay because I had the bigger dog who did the most damage. It's so NOT fair since I was the responsible one. But what can you do when it's your neighbors? Luckily, the bills were financially manageable.

Back when we lived in Richmond our dear departed Bozo Kitty was sitting on our front steps, and probably thumbed his kitty nose at a passing pit bull being walked on the sidewalk in front of our house. Wise, he was not. :rolleyes:

Said pit bull broke free of his leash and proceeded to make mincemeat of Bozo. The pit bull got a few good scratches for his effort though, Bozo was quite the fighter himself.

After Lee tried to pull them apart :eek: with no success (meanwhile the piece-of-sh!t owner screaming at Lee not to hurt her dog!! :mad:), Lee ran into the house to grab a lead pipe with the full intent to bash the pit bull's brains in, but by the time he got back out the piece-of-sh!t owner and her vermin had run down the street and jumped into a car & sped off.

Needless to say, Lee was devastated, he and Boze were good buds. As was I, but I didn't have to live through the experience of watching our beloved pet being mauled on our front steps, and then have to load him up and speed him to the vet. Bozo's injuries were way too severe to keep him alive and suffering, so he had to be put to sleep. Even the vet was choked up - Bozo was a very beloved kitty.

So, I have zero tollerance for dog owners who can't, or are too lazy, to control their dogs.

And I used to loathe pit bulls on sight, until I met a friend's, which is one of the sweetest dogs imaginable.

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Originally Posted by jobob

And I used to loathe pit bulls on sight, until I met a friend's, which is one of the sweetest dogs imaginable.

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Would that be mr simon? :)

Indeed it would. :cool:

I enjoy allowing my dog to run without a leash, but not to anyone's expense. I have even gone as far as getting a waistband leash for running. I agree, most people don't have the slightest training for their "wonderful" dog. My dog has been to ALOT of training classes and I still don't trust him completely. When he is off-leash, in an unpopulated area, he has an e-collar on.

I also have been attacked by dogs who are off leash. I get in front of my 75lb German Shepherd and actually kick at the other dogs and say "no" really loud. I know he can eat most dogs, but it is my job to be the pack leader and engage in fights.

I hope you are feeling better MP and enjoy the wine.

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Originally Posted by BadgerGirl

I enjoy allowing my dog to run without a leash, but not to anyone's expense. I have even gone as far as getting a waistband leash for running. I agree, most people don't have the slightest training for their "wonderful" dog. My dog has been to ALOT of training classes and I still don't trust him completely. When he is off-leash, in an unpopulated area, he has an e-collar on.

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All too true! Its good to hear. My dogs have been to a lot of training also. One of them is a service dog. I do not have them off leash ever. I used to not be that way until the service dog almost got hit by a car when he suddenly chased a cat. His loss would have been devastating to my SO. So, for my safety and my dogs I always keep them on a leash. You just never know, they do have a mind of their own and it can happen so fast.

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Originally Posted by roadie gal

I have to disagree here. I think dogs SHOULD ALWAYS BE UNDER CONTROL, but that doesn't necessarily mean leashed.

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Yes, totally agree. Some people (I'm one of them) own working dogs that have been trained off-leash on purpose. Whenever we are in a town where it's allowed I walk the dog off-lead, and he never caused any problems anywhere.

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Originally Posted by roadie gal

Because of a few (or even many) bad owners I don't think the rest of us should have to leash our dogs at all times.

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Of course in most cities the law assumes that dogs are not well-trained (and that is unfortunately true of many), and so we all have to walk our dogs on a lead. But the real issue is not the leash: some dogs on a leash are more dangerous than a well-trained dog walking free. The key is control and proper training. The leash is one of the tools available to control a dog, like voice, electric collar, etc... the main problem is that many owners have no idea how to control their dogs, with a leash or without.

Hope you and your dog are feeling better maillotpois, enjoy your wine and relax!

Jobob, Leebob and late Bozo kitty,

That is so sad. On behalf of all pits and pit-mixes Mae sends a tail wag. She likes cats if she considers them "her cat" that is knows them. If I could only get her to behave with dogs as she does with cats. :o

Unfortunately with most pits it's the *&^ owner not the dog.

And yes, that Simon is the best'est smile'y wiggle-butt dog ever :)

Yesterday evening I was walking my dog, almost home when a neighbor's dog streaked from it's front yard and attacked my dog. I saw the attack coming, and managed to yank Nala's leash to pull her away from the other dog just as it was trying to bite her neck. I twisted around, and came an inch from planting a swift kick on the dog. Meanwhile the owner has opened her door and called it back. Fortunately for all, the free dog trotted off, and returned home.

So I continue home, but stop at a neighbor's house, who had seen the whole thing. Her son checks Nala over, but other than a bit of saliva, no harm done. Her wooly coat around her neck has saved it again - Nala is an Aussie shepherd / border collie mix and has a rather thick ruff (and since it hasn't turned permanently hot yet, she hasn't been shaved for the summer). Anyway as we humans were talking, man drives up, turns out he's the owner of the dog. He appologizes, and says his dog is "always in the back yard, and always on a teather". Yeah, right. What really got me was he said his dog didn't mean any harm. Right, I just imagined the attempt to bite my dog on her neck. There was no butt sniffing, the dog was in attack mode.

I'm just thankful that the dog went home when called. So at least part of it's brain was listening.

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Of course in most cities the law assumes that dogs are not well-trained (and that is unfortunately true of many), and so we all have to walk our dogs on a lead. But the real issue is not the leash: some dogs on a leash are more dangerous than a well-trained dog walking free. The key is control and proper training. The leash is one of the tools available to control a dog, like voice, electric collar, etc... the main problem is that many owners have no idea how to control their dogs, with a leash or without.

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It is an impossibly high standard to expect every owner to be able to control their dog as you do and provide homes for the millions of dogs in our country who are lucky enough to have one.

Do you think only competent, highly skilled people should have dogs? Well no. So that's what the leash law is for.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

It is an impossibly high standard to expect every owner to be able to control their dog as you do and provide homes for the millions of dogs in our country who are lucky enough to have one.

Do you think only competent, highly skilled people should have dogs? Well no. So that's what the leash law is for.

Karen

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So leash laws are an excuse for people to not train their dogs? I agree, it's much easier to just drag your dog around on a leash than to spend the large amount of time and effort training it. And I agree that most people don't want to spend that time. I just think that those of us who do put in the effort shouldn't suffer for those who don't.

Just giving a bit more thought here... There are certain breeds that can't be trusted off leash like sighthounds, but most can if you put in the time and effort.

Think about the elderly, the infirm, children with a new puppy. There are all kinds of variations on dog+owner. Not everyone has the time, inclination or ability to train their dog as you would. A leash protects us all.

I'm not saying that every dog should never be off leash ever. I just think most people who think they have ultimate control over their dog off-leash have just not been in the right circumstances to be proven wrong, yet.

THANK YOU for being a responsible dog owner. There are varying degrees of what that means. There's room for everyone, and there are plenty of places where it's legal for your dog to be off-leash. If it's illegal, put the leash on.

Karen

I'd like to say a big thanks to Rij73 - she is my definition of a responsible dog owner. Sometimes its not just about how well behaved the dog is - its about the other people who are potentially around you. While it may be perfectly safe to walk your perfectly trained, unleashed dog down the path I ride to work - *I don't know that*. I don't know the person or their unleashed dog, I don't know if the dog is prone to chase or bite, I don't know if the dog is prone to jump and beyond any of that, the dog could easliy just accidentally walk out in front of me or appear suddenly around a corner. It's disrespectful to others to not leash your dogs in areas that it is required - and dare I say, even areas that are highly public, even if it is not required. So give us all peace of mind and please leash your dogs, even the perfect ones.

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Originally Posted by Eden

I'd like to say a big thanks to Rij73 - she is my definition of a responsible dog owner. Sometimes its not just about how well behaved the dog is - its about the other people who are potentially around you. While it may be perfectly safe to walk your perfectly trained, unleashed dog down the path I ride to work - *I don't know that*. I don't know the person or their unleashed dog, I don't know if the dog is prone to chase or bite, I don't know if the dog is prone to jump and beyond any of that, the dog could easliy just accidentally walk out in front of me or appear suddenly around a corner. It's disrespectful to others to not leash your dogs in areas that it is required - and dare I say, even areas that are highly public, even if it is not required. So give us all peace of mind and please leash your dogs, even the perfect ones.

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+1

I feel the same way about "invisible fences." When I ride by and the dog charges the property line, I don't know the fence is there, or if I do, I don't know the dog's pain threshold or how badly s/he wants to chase me.

Never mind the other very valid criticisms of "invisible fences" of course.

Well, Simon has been walking around all smug and full of himself recently, and now, after reading this thread and the compliments from his TE friends, I can see why! :rolleyes:

Simon's very well behaved on a leash, heels well, and sits instantly when commanded, but if a dog were to come charging up off leash, or on a long leash, and he's decided that dog is a threat, the consequences could be serious for everyone involved. I'm pretty sure I could break it up before anyone gets hurt, but I don't want that kind of risk or upset. So he gets his long walks very late at night when no one else is around.

I'd love to take him for walks in the many trails around here that allow dogs on leashes, but every time I've been on one of them (without him), I see several people with their dogs off leash, or not under adequate control.

I think it is a very small percentage of owners who truly have total control (voice and otherwise) over their own dogs, in any situation. And even if those owners have total control over their dog, they certainly won't have it over anyone else's dog, on or off leash. This, to me, is the justification for a leash law. In urban/sub-urban areas, I think all of us should should have our dogs on leash, because it is a prudent and courteous way to protect our pets, other people, and their pets.

One other small thought. Nala has gotten up there in years, is pretty deaf, and going blind. She still walks pretty spry, and well, our neighborhood is flat, so on a brisk walk, she really doesn't show her age. I digress. I'm having problems with the communication part, calling her when she's off leash (like in the yard). I've been working with hand signals, but she has to be LOOKING at me. Doesn't do much good to do a hand signal to her behind. :o So I try to stay viligant that she's on her leash, and I'm attached to the other end when we're out of the yard.

Wow - Beth - sorry about the attack on Nala! :(

I have to say there may be circumstances, for example if you are on back trails in bear country, where I suspect roadie gal is, where maybe it is safer to have your dog off leash. I don't know. I try to stay away from bears. :cool: Every situation is different. But I have to say if you're around other people and dogs at all, it has to be safer for everyone - not the least of which being the dog to use a leash.

I spent a lot of time and money training my rottweiler, because I knew she'd end up stronger than me, even on a leash. That was money and time well spent. Russo came to us fully trained, so we were lucky there. But kudos to all of you who have spent the time and money to train your dogs.

Maillotpois, I hope you're feeling better. What a scary experience to have to go through.

I never let Chloe (Chow Chow/GSD mix/and, I'm convinced, a touch of 'fraidy cat) off her leash. She can be reactive toward dogs who bark/lunge at her. She is unpredictable around cyclists, skateboarders & scooters (which my neighborhood seems to have boatloads of). If we see someone on one of these while on our walks, I pull her aside, as far as possible, until they pass. Sometimes she's uninterested other times a bit too interested. She's getting better with voice commands but not enough that I trust her off leash, especially with other distractions around (squirrels, cats, etc. Her best bud is a cat who lives in our building so she thinks every cat wants to play with her like Jethro does.) The street we live on is very busy traffic-wise and I don't want her darting out in front of a car. She doesn't have a history of biting but I don't want someone or some animal to become the first.

I'm not sure how much training, if any, Chloe got with her original owner. I do know that she had regular training for the short time she was at the rescue but we're still working on behaviors that need improvement. She's better than she was 10 months ago when I adopted her but I need to be mindful that not everyone views her as I do, a lovable slug, and what they see is a Chow (a dog with a dangerous rep to begin with) who may or may not harm them.

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While it may be perfectly safe to walk your perfectly trained, unleashed dog down the path I ride to work - *I don't know that*. I don't know the person or their unleashed dog, I don't know if the dog is prone to chase or bite, I don't know if the dog is prone to jump and beyond any of that, the dog could easliy just accidentally walk out in front of me or appear suddenly around a corner.

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+1 to Eden!

i know some people have great control of their dogs, but as i'm approaching on my bicycle i dont know you, i dont know your dog, i dont know what its going to do.

so unless i see cesar millan with 'daddy' and a camera crew i am going to be afraid of your dog.

so while i have issues about dogs, i'm sure, i think dog owners have responsibilities to control their beasts, uh i mean pooches, and courtesy to keep them leashed so i can be assured they're controlled.