The Masters Swimming Thread!

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And I'm working really hard practicing not swimming freestyle on my stomach, but instead just "passing through" my front side, while rotating my hips from side to side. My coach says that I should never be flat on my stomach - it is the most inefficient way to swim freestyle. I should swim freestyle like a fish does - always staying on my side.

This is all new learning for me. I can't believe how much swimming has changed in the past 30 years! Where have I been?

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Well, I have see the TI videos and the technique... and honestly, I don't "get it". I think it's great for someone who can't swim... to learn how to swim... but it also seems like a lot of people who use it, never end up being very fast.

I swim "old school" (swam competitively 20 years ago)... I swim on my stomach... and I'm usually top 3 in my AG out of the water. I'm not a slow swimmer.

My boyfriend learned using TI and he has never gotten really fast. I had a friend who was doing the TI method, and I had him stop twisting his body as much in the water... and he got faster.

Who knows... maybe some people are speed demons in the water swimming on their sides the whole time? I haven't met them... but I'm sure it works for some.

Sorry... that's just my little rant. Like I said, I think TI is great for someone who can't swim at all to be able to swim... but I don't think the technique is the "end all be all".

But hey, whatever works for you. If you can swim fast swimming on your side... then that's great!

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Originally Posted by alpinerabbit

hee hee. Fish don't swim on their side. Well flounders do.

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Fish don't do freestyle, either. ;)

KSH, what do you consider "fast"?

I bought the TI book, but only got about 1/2 through it. I got frustrated because they kept saying "We'll show you how to X..." but then never seemed to get to the showing, only to the promise to show. The little bit I got out of it was to swim with the top of the head forward and the eyes/face down.

I'm right in the middle of TI lessons.

Some of it feels awkward. In theory, it seems like it makes sense though sometimes it feels strange! I agree that maybe some of the techniques can be modified to a more traditional type style.

My intention is to be "middle of the pack" while having enough coordination and strength to go around poor swimmers. I also would like to not have my quads burn after 1/2 mile in the open water and I'd like to finish with as much energy as possible. Oh and I don't want to have to regroup at buoys if I get winded :o

I think maybe when I'm through with my TI training, I will go back to more traditional swim clinics to practice. One thing TI did work on which I loved, was balance. I float much more easily now and my legs don't sink :D

KSH,

Very interesting points.

And, I have to tell you that I feel the same way. Especially when you say that immersion swimming is a good technique to help people learn to swim, but is not that helpful for those of us that consider ourselves more "accomplished" swimmers. But I have this coach that is an immersion swimming nut. He feels that it is the "end all" to swimming. So, I have decided to give it a try to see if it helps me be a faster swimmer. But I'm not really convinced that it is going to help me at all.

I also swam competitively as a child. I learned to swim through the American Red Cross swimming program. I have always swum freestyle staying completely on my stomach. I also swam freestyle with my arms swinging out without a great deal of bend in my arms.

I actually have a videotape of me swimming the 50 yard freestyle in a swim meet last year (my very first swim meet as an adult) and you can see my old form.

This is what I looked like.

http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...=Freestyle.flv

My time for the 50 yard freestyle was 35.5 seconds. Not extremely fast, but not that slow either - for an old lady.;)

I am going to be in another swim meet next month and I am also going to do the 50 yard freestyle again, trying out my new form. This will mean more bend in my elbows and trying to rotate more from side to side.

I am pessimistic that my time is going to improve, but I am going to give it my best shot!

How is all of this going to transfer to swimming in triathlons? I have no idea! Right now I am only doing sprint tris. I did my first one last year and I plan on trying some more next summer.

I have now been working on changing my form with immersion swimming for about 4 months. I'm really hoping that it will help me be a better swimmer. I guess I'll find out soon. But I must admit, I am having lots of fun exploring this new stuff. I guess that you can teach an old dog new tricks!:D

Lynette

What's TI????

Total Immersion??

Can someone give me a definition?

I honestly have no idea what I'm being taught... All I know is I REALLY sucked this morning. I was slow, I was swallowing water (The fact it was raining didn't help my breating in air much either) and I felt like I couldn't keep my arse up in the water.

>_< MAN THAT SUCKED! I think it's because I haven't recovered from my 140 last weekend.

Triathlon is this weekend... Can't be THIS BAD now... ;_;

Lynette... cool video!

A 32 second 50 is FAST in my book lady! I don't think I could do that! Although, I have always been a distance swimmer... not a sprinter.

I guess I would ask, how did you fair in the sprint tri on the swim? Were you first... last... somewhere in between? With a 50 that fast, I would think you would be in the top of your AG.

Keep in mind that a lot triathletes come from a running or cycling backgroun. The ones with a swimming background really stand out, because they are decent in the water.

Your "old school" stroke looked pretty good. I saw you doing the "S" underwater. I did notice that your elbows were not too high and your right elbow was lower than the left. From a distance in the video it almost looked like the arm was dragging through the water some to come to the front.

Well, see how the TI works. Maybe you will be faster? Let us know how it works out. I'm curious.

I know for me... I figured if it ain't broke... don't fix it. My "old school" stroke is what my body knows, and it generally places me top 3 in my AG out of the water.

It's really nice too because I can get away with only training one day week. For my Half Ironman I trained once a week around 3500-4000 yards and I did around a 1:50 per minute on the 2100 yard swim. I also came out of the water fresh and feeling good. That's what matters!

I am very strong through my upper boday and with a more traditional freestyle stroke I was as fast if not a little faster over shorter distances. But with the TI stroke, I can hold my pace for much longer and my stroke count over 50 m has gone down by more than 10. That translates into a lot less effort to go the same distance and in triathlon, that's what it's all about.

This is a great discussion. Thanks, ladies, for letting me join in!

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A 32 second 50 is FAST in my book lady! I don't think I could do that! Although, I have always been a distance swimmer... not a sprinter.

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Not a 32 second 50, a 35 second 50. (I wish it was a 32). And, thanks, I'm glad you like the video!

Oh, and yes, I usually finish either first or second in my age group for the swimming section of the sprint tris that I have done, but to be honest, this really doesn't mean a lot, because there are so few women in my age competing.

Wahine, the same thing is happening to me with my swimming. My stroke count is starting to go way down. I like the idea that this might translate to less effort for longer distances. As I said before, TI is all new to me, so we will have to see as time goes on if that is true. Though I know for sure that I am gliding more now than I used to.

Light Saber, yes, TI means Total Immersion. Here is the web site if you want to see what it is all about.

http://www.totalimmersion.net

Goodnight Ladies,

Lynette

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Originally Posted by teigyr

One thing TI did work on which I loved, was balance. I float much more easily now and my legs don't sink :D

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Is this explained in the book? I've always been a sinker and I definitely suffer from sinking hips. I'd love to be able to improve this!

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Originally Posted by MDHillSlug

Is this explained in the book? I've always been a sinker and I definitely suffer from sinking hips. I'd love to be able to improve this!

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It is in the book. I don't have the book with me but I do have the Triathlon Swimming Made Easy book here. It's all about balance. I know when I practice and start to sink, I remember to lower my head and upper body a bit and my legs pop right back up. I will say that the lessons are making more of a difference than the book just because I may think I am in line or balanced and it turns out the reality is my head is up and my legs are down :o It's so strange to feel like my head is buried in the water but when I feel the top of my head, it isn't as deep as I think it is. I bet if you search the TI website you will find things on balance. There is also a discussion board there.

Washine, I'm glad you find TI useful. Because the coaching is somewhat expensive and because I'm practicing drills instead of "traditional" swimming, I am/was second-guessing my decision to do this. It's a lot of money and I'm fortunate in that I just have to say I need something and DH agrees but I'd hate to waste money on something useless. Thank you for that :)

Mind if I join in as well? I'm taking an intro to master swim class. The Master swim class was a little intimidating to me. We've been swimming about 2200 yards. I'm not sure how much more I can swim in an hour. We've been timing our 100's the last few classes to see if we're improving. A few classes ago it was 1:37 and last night it was 1:30. We've also been working on lengthening our stroke. I started at 21 strokes/25 yards and now am about 18.

I just picked up the TI book from the library. I don't know how fast a 1:30 or 18 stroke per 25 yard is to decide if I should try and change my swimming style.

This morning:

200 warm up

400 IM with fins done as 25 kick/25 drill/25 kick/25 drill

then 2 sets of:

50 fly
50 fly/50 back
50 back/50 breast
50 breast/100 freestyle

then 200 IM

then 12 50's in various forms

then 200 cool down.

I hate IM day. Yikes. Well if it doesn't kill you....

Wahine, I am very impressed!

That is quite the workout. :eek:

WOW - You go girl!

Lynette

I had my best swim ever this morning; I swam 1000m continuous freestyle for the first time ever and I swam a total of 2000m, my longest workout ever. :D

Good Job MD!

I had a break through lastnight in masters. I was struggling to keep up with everyone all night. Then Claudio came over to my lane and told me to tuck my head a bit more. I did that and suddenly I was beatng the guy in the lane next to me down the pool! And I did feel the difference when I pushed my big ol noggin down. I felt a lot more balanced.
Now if I can just get down the bilateral breathing thing! UGH! :o

Good going both of ya!

I did much better on the back stroke this monday than at butterfly the week before, but incurred some rather sore muscles.

I haven't popped in here for a while, so here's an update. It seems like all yall are doing really well!

We've been doing backstroke in the past few weeks, and I'm starting to hate it. I always like backstroke, but with drills... its really tiring and I really feel it on my run home. Very winded.

I actually took yesterday off from class, stayed home and watched a movie (Farewell my concubine, very good!)

RM, i recently discovered the similar thing. When I drop my head in the water during freestyle, push my forehead down a bit, i almost feel like i'm physically shoving that water around me. It's very odd. It feels really nice though, and powerful, and I think a bit faster. The only problem I'm having with that is that by dropping my head, I have to rotate more to get a breath, and I'm ending up with water in my mouth more often than not. It doesn't go down my throat, but I don't get a really awesome breath in like I used to when my head was further up towards the surface. Any tips on this?

K.

Good job everyone.

Way to go MD. That is really a big deal!!

I'll spare you the boring details but I swam 3 mornings this week with Masters. I thought I was going to die all 3 mornings. 2 days had a lot of stroke work which tires me out and on the freestyle day we had a hideously hard set. I was even a bit pukey.

Good news is that I feel really good. Like I'm getting enough exercise but not fatigued. I haven't felt like that in a while. I'll start training for real again (ie running and maybe biking) in mid Nov or beginnig of Dec. I'm starting to get excited about setting up a program.:D :D :D

Wahine - because you've used TI at times, do you do your Master's practice using that form? Since I've taken the TI course and am doing drills now, it's a bit frustrating. Can you effectively go back and forth between forms or do you just use one that you've modified that's all-purpose? There are some swim clinics up here that I'd like to go to but I wonder if that would conflict with the TI lessons. The winter is all about swimming but I want to see progress, darn it!

I use TI now, pretty exclusively. Having said that, there's always individuality in form and my current form is not pure TI but a blend of TI and my pre-TI form.

From a PT point of view, to make the TI form automatic you have to commit yourself to always practicing it. If you switch back and forth and change your stroke significantly when you switch, you form will suffer at both ends. It have to do with imprinting the nervous system with the right motor commands.

I would try to do all TI, understanding that when you don't concentrate as hard you will be swimming a combination. You will be slower for a while.

Wahine, thank you. It makes sense. I'm not so worried about speed but I really want distance. Being that my final lesson was last week, I know I need to keep doing drills. I've got months to go before another tri so I know there is time. I guess I'm impatient :o

Coach told me to use my legs a bit more in freestyle, tried that, I guess it's not going too badly. Sometimes I get into a rhythm. Sometimes not. I need a butterfly class.

We have a 1K time trial in December, I am dreading that one.

Last night they were talking about doing 100x100 on new year's day.

You get free entry to the pool, champagne afterwards and out for lunch (actually they were joking last year it was lunches as they visited several restaurants, they were so hungry)

Think I can do 100x100? as a one-off? They just do something different for every 100 and you have all the time in the world (that would amount to like 4-5 hours?)
if I don't feel too horrible after a 2hr/3.5K practice? Or is this madness. I guess I don't have to finish.

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Originally Posted by alpinerabbit

Last night they were talking about doing 100x100 on new year's day.

You get free entry to the pool, champagne afterwards and out for lunch (actually they were joking last year it was lunches as they visited several restaurants, they were so hungry)

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NY Day? No thanks. That's the day you should be recovering from a hang over! :p

Good class last night, we did T-15s again and I increased 125 yds from my benchmark! Swam the whole night with Mr. Ironman in my lane again, but he said he'd already swum that morning so was taking it easy. And this time he wasn't tickling my toes the whole time (he also gave me a compliment, saying that I was perfectly capable of moving up to the next lane and I was doing a fine job setting a pace as the first swimmer in our lane yay).

No swimming this week for me. I've been unusually tired and today I feel like I might be coming down with the flu.:( :(

Alpine, I would try it. But I'm officially warped.

meh... maybe I'll rather be lazy around christmas and not do too much crazy stuff.

Last night we had to do a whopping 5x100 fist swimming. eeks. I passed again on the butterfly. I'll have to take a class to sort of manage that one. Otherwise I kept up, in the slow lane, for all 3.3K. I dread the 1K time trial we will do in December.

The funkiest freestyle drills we did 2 weeks ago: "chicken wing" (keep one thumb in your armpit) and "shark" (keep one foot in the air). Funny but yucky.

ar, we call those turkey drills, and they're good to do for the thanksgiving and christmas relay games we have in class! :)

as for me, i haven't been to class recently. Last weekend I was on a climbing trip, and due to the cold weather and sleeping on the ground, I've tweaked my neck and don't want to risk re-injuring with swimming. So for now I'm resting and trying to get the running back up.

K.

I went to all 3 masters workouts last week and the 2 so far this week.

We swam a tough 2000m main set today.

I am now officially suffering from armsfallingoffitis with a coexisting case of sleepyitis.

I can't wait to go home tonight and crash out.

I really impressed myself today. For the past few weeks I've been focusing on balance (side swimming) and mastering bilateral breathing, doing various drills. Today I decided that maybe I should alternate drills workouts with LSD (long slow distance). So, I got in the pool with the intention of doing 1000m FS. I ended up doing 1600m straight! Woo hoo!

I missed Masters today.:(

I had to go to a meeting last night and didn't get home until 10:45. I thought about getting up early to swim, but then I would not have seen my husband in a conscious state for almost 2 days. I slept in with him and we had coffee together instead.

MD - :D :D :D :D that's great news.

I did mostly drills this week. It was actually kind of fun. I am slowly increasing my distance back up to where it was at the end of my race season, but I am not working on speed yet. I plan to wait a few more weeks before I start doing speed work.

I swam masters this AM.

Just when you think you're getting a bit better....you get your azz kicked. The main set went like this:

12x25 fly with fins
6x50 back
3x100 breast
1x200 free
1x400 IM

I had to do freestyle for the last 25m of my fly on the 400m IM. To keep from drowning. Eeeeeeekkkkk!! My shoulders are killing me.

What's IM?

Individual Medley

oh. And what is that?

Basically you can choose which stroke you'd like to do for that set.

C

Thanks CC. :) And freestyle is where you do a front crawl? Why is it called free style? Do you get to choose how often you take a breath?

I think it's called free style because there was a time where, for some races, you could choose which stroke you wanted to do and the overwhelming choice ended up being front crawl.

Hey Ladies,

Just completed my first Master's swim meet for the season. I swam two personal bests, so I am quite happy!:D

I swam the 50 yard butterfly, 100 yard freestyle, and the 50 yard freestyle.

Woo-hoo - off to a great start!

Lynette

Good job Lynette!

I'm going to be joining the local masters club in January. I've just had too much going on this fall but in the thick of winter my schedule should be much more open.

I need to get a new suit as my old one is see-through.