Does anyone sell womens specific frames only?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

The only problem I have with these bikes and a lot of the ones on ebay are that they're 9 speed.

---

9 speed seems to be good enough for many beginning riders. Heck, I even know some very talented riders that ride 8 speed bicycles! sadiekate :rolleyes:

I'm beginning to think you don't really want us to help you but rather want us to run around in cerebral circles while you watch, fascinated. :p I guess we're not really answering your original post, which is about WSD frames, since that's what you seem to think she needs. I'll put in one last plug for you to be a little more flexible re: material, number of speeds, and WSD vs non WSD, and now I'll shut up.

So no, I certainly can't provide any helpful information! :) Good luck and have fun!

I prefer the term TrekSD to WSD.

Your bike doesn't have to be custom, it just has to fit YOU and frame is just one tiny aspect of that, it's important for sure but not the only thing.

Hides subliminal message, everyone needs a Surly :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SadieKate

For your price range and her newness to the sport: fit, handling and comfort should take priority. 10 speed won't affect any of this unless the Campy parts you have right now are 10-speed specific so you'll save money. Even then, much of the 9 spd and 10 spd stuff will work together.

---

It's not so much that 9 speed isn't good enough for her it's just that 9 speed is pretty much obsolete and almost impossible to find parts for unless its DA9. Finding a new 9 speed 105 cassette is a lot harder than finding a 10 speed 105 cassette.

Wow, you must use a different internet than I do. 30 seconds found these from very reputable dealers.

http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp...t=55&brand=226
http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/c/COMPCASS9RDSH

There's also a little company called SRAM that makes Shimano-compatible cassettes, as do Miche and IRD, perhaps you've heard of it?

I'm with yellow as far as leaving the conversation. You appear more concerned with bling or some mind game than making your girlfriend happy and getting her on a bike. You get her there, you can upgrade any frame to 10 spd down the road. Upgrading girlfriends is a whole different ballgame.

SK, I love you. ;)

I second the notion of letting GF be highly involved in picking her own ride, even if she is a newbie. Personal experience story there for me. Let her control her buying experience. She will be that much more comfortable, then, going to LBS alone after she has the bike, and getting educated and making her own decisions, so her riding experience empowers her, rather than creates perceived dependence on you for her bike know-how.

And, um, as I type, my LBS is putting a new 9 spd cassette on my bike, which happens to not be a WSD, but is 105.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SadieKate

you can upgrade any frame to 10 spd down the road. Upgrading girlfriends is a whole different ballgame.

---

And it costs more and takes longer too! :D And as I type this my LBS is rebuilding my MTB which has 8 speed...after powdercoating the frame.

Log off and get her on the bike that fits her, you can even change frame color later on.

FYI, both my bikes are a 9 spd ultegra/XT mix by choice. I have no problem finding 9 spd replacement parts. I chose 9 spd so I can mix road and mountain parts, to let me use a compact double in front, with mountain gearing in back for mountains. Heck, you can still find 5 spd parts. Try someone like Harris Cyclery.

You are also ignoring a critical fit factor by focussing only on top tube length and not seat tube angle, both of which effect reach.

This is how the seat tube angle stuff works. All you have to understand is that every 1 degree increase in seat tube angle pushes the seat tube closer to the bars, so while this can be used to reduce the top tube length, it doesn't change the reach, because the saddle then needs to go back 1 cm to get the same KOP position. So in other words, the REACH ON the following bikes are identical:

BIKE STA TT

1 73 52
2 74 51
3 75 50
4 76 49

The problem is that someone might purchase bike 4, thinking it has the shortest top tube, without realizing that it is identical to the other choices. For ME, the problem with too steep a seat tube is that even with the saddle all the way back on the rails, my knee is too far forward of the pedal axle. So, as she test rides bikes, note both the seat tube angle and top tube length (assuming she has adequate clearance over the top tube and can get the bars to the desired height easily). Once you know her ideal geometry, its easier to shop around on ebay. I got a never been built terry isis frame that sold new as a complete bike for $2000 for only $100 on ebay, and then just swapped all the relatively new parts from an older rusting bike to make a helluva sweet ride. This doesn't have to be expensive, but you do need to know what frame geometry you are looking for.

[QUOTE=Triskeliongirl;222879]

This is how the seat tube angle stuff works. All you have to understand is that every 1 degree increase in seat tube angle pushes the seat tube closer to the bars, so while this can be used to reduce the top tube length, it doesn't change the reach, because the saddle then needs to go back 1 cm to get the same KOP position. So in other words, the REACH ON the following bikes are identical:

BIKE STA TT

1 73 52
2 74 51
3 75 50
4 76 49

QUOTE]


Keep in mind every individual is different. With a 74.5 or 75 sta my saddles are forward because I have a short femur. My custom frame has a 74.5 sta and a zero degree seatpost and my saddle is forward to accomodate the KOPS position. I have a mtn bike with a 72.5 sta and I feel like I'm riding a recumbent because my knee angle is so far off center.

Ideally, I could use a sta of 76 degrees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kathi

Keep in mind every individual is different. With a 74.5 or 75 sta my saddles are forward because I have a short femur. My custom frame has a 74.5 sta and a zero degree seatpost and my saddle is forward to accomodate the KOPS position. I have a mtn bike with a 72.5 sta and I feel like I'm riding a recumbent because my knee angle is so far off center.

Ideally, I could use a sta of 76 degrees.

---

Of course, but not sure if you are arguing or not that the combination of sta and tt length determines reach. My point is that you cannot only look at TT length when comparing 2 bikes. I agree with you that the range of acceptable sta's is also highly individual. I need something very slack (ideally 72) while clearly you need something very steep (ideally 76), just to be able to get KOPs to work with the available saddles and seatposts. You have to look at all of these factors to determine if a frame is or isn't going to work. FYI, maybe Kathi could try one of those forward seatposts they sell for time trial bikes for her mtn bike with the slack sta http://www.gottaridebikes.com/Mercha...roduct_Count=1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SadieKate

Wow, you must use a different internet than I do. 30 seconds found these from very reputable dealers.

http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp...t=55&brand=226
http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/c/COMPCASS9RDSH

There's also a little company called SRAM that makes Shimano-compatible cassettes, as do Miche and IRD, perhaps you've heard of it?

I'm with yellow as far as leaving the conversation. You appear more concerned with bling or some mind game than making your girlfriend happy and getting her on a bike. You get her there, you can upgrade any frame to 10 spd down the road. Upgrading girlfriends is a whole different ballgame.

---

A cassette might have been a poor example but 10 speed stuff is much more readily available than 9 speed or 8 speed. And as the years go by it will be harder and harder to come by 9 speed parts.

I've been through this bike newbie phase myself and have learned that once you start riding you'll want to upgrade to something beyond sora/tiagra/mirage/xenon. I would like to have something mid level to begin with that I can keep for a long time. I guess it's a gamble for me since I don't know if she'll stick with it but it's a gamble I'm willing to take.

We're heading out to a local trek dealer this afternoon to check out their inventory so hopefully they'll have something that fits her.

KOP isn't the only way to fit a bike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

KOP isn't the only way to fit a bike.

---

No, KOPS is not the only way but is very important. Your body tells you when something is not right with the fit, it seeks it's natural position. Before I had a good fitting done my saddles were centered and I had seat posts with setbacks. I couldn't figure out why but I intuitively kept moving forward. I had more power but riding on the nose was very uncomfortable. Because my seat posts had setbacks, the saddles hurt because I was moving to far forward so I tipped the saddles down, it was the only way I could ride the bikes comfortably. No one bothered to look at the position of my knees. I was simply to far from the center of the bike.

I have been riding since 1981 when there were no bikes for small women, have suffered on improperly fitting bikes and gave up on the shops and tried to fit myself. I figured out that I needed a steeper sta but couldn't figure out the position of the saddle and that I needed a zero degree seat post. I also didn't realize that my handlebars were place 4 cm to low, that took a professional bike fitter to tell me.

Since I've been riding I've had 3 mtn bikes and 5 road bikes. Of the 8 bikes 1 mtn bike (my Titus) and 1 road bike (custom) fits well. Both bikes were fitted by knowledgeable fitters.

Please start your friend off with a well fitting bike. It's more important than components or frame material. If you do it right the first time the bike will last her a long time. And it's easier and cheaper than trying to make an ill-fitting bike fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

Of course, but not sure if you are arguing or not that the combination of sta and tt length determines reach. My point is that you cannot only look at TT length when comparing 2 bikes. I agree with you that the range of acceptable sta's is also highly individual. I need something very slack (ideally 72) while clearly you need something very steep (ideally 76), just to be able to get KOPs to work with the available saddles and seatposts. You have to look at all of these factors to determine if a frame is or isn't going to work. FYI, maybe Kathi could try one of those forward seatposts they sell for time trial bikes for her mtn bike with the slack sta http://www.gottaridebikes.com/Mercha...roduct_Count=1

---

Thanks, but I have a good mtn bike that fits. I still have the Voodoo but it is mostly ridden to the store (1mile) and by visitors.

By KOPS I mean getting whatever the optimum knee over pedal position is for the rider right. In my case I actually prefer it if my knee is 1 cm behind the pedal axle. But, my points were that you need to consider reach as a comb. of STA and TT length, and also, as reiterated by Kathi, you need to be sure the STA will allow whatever the riders appropriate KOP position is to be established. Small women are more sensitive to all this crap, cuz manufacturers mess more with frame angles on smaller sized bikes so they can outfit the bike with 700cc wheels. If the bike doesn't fit, your GF will not like cylcing, its as simple as that.

Keith Bontrager wrote a pretty good article busting the KOPS myth.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

..... busting the KOPS myth.....

---

Alrighty then, I guess you've won because that's just the end of that concept :rolleyes:

No system really other than a great bike shop and club, I'm just working on my 5th custom bike.

Oh, girls, don't waste your energy. He knows what he knows and it's all about him, not his girlfriend.

Andy Pruitt uses KOPS, but what would he know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trek420

Alrighty then, I guess you've won because that's just the end of that concept :rolleyes:

No system really other than a great bike shop and club, I'm just working on my 5th custom bike.

---

Did you gals even read the article? KOPS is a good place to start but it doesn't work for everyone. In my opinion proper weight distribution is more important than having your knee over the spindle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

My girlfriend is a girl so I assume she'd be better off with WSD geometry. I don't want her to hate cycling because the bike geometry is to aggressive.

---

Of course we know KOPS is only a place to start, just like we know WSD isn't for all women.

skunk, why are you here? You have yet to acknowledge anything anyone has offered. You refuse to tell us where you live so we can provide shop recommendations. It pretty much sounds like you just want to throw your weight around and have us be your personal shoppers.

We're trying to help you be a hero to your girlfriend which means getting her involved in the decision, but you don't discuss anything anyone has offered. You just refute without the back-up.

Just a guess, but I think we know women better than you do. There's an awful lot of knowledge on this forum if you'd choose to be receptive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SadieKate

Of course we know KOPS is only a place to start, just like we know WSD isn't for all women.

skunk, why are you here? You have yet to acknowledge anything anyone has offered. You refuse to tell us where you live so we can provide shop recommendations. It pretty much sounds like you just want to throw your weight around and have us be your personal shoppers.

We're trying to help you be a hero to your girlfriend which means getting her involved in the decision, but you don't discuss anything anyone has offered. You just refute without the back-up.

Just a guess, but I think we know women better than you do. There's an awful lot of knowledge on this forum if you'd choose to be receptive.

---

In post #34 I said I live in Southern California.

I have checked out every bike that has been mentioned in this thread. Locating a dealer for some of these brands on the other hand will take some time. So before I do that I can't really say anything about them.

I went to another local shop today to and to my surprise it doesn't stock any womens bikes and only had one trek 1000 that was slightly too big for her.

My goal is still to buy a frame unless I come across a great deal on a complete bike. I have a shop in Arizona looking into getting me a low end trek frame so I should hear back from them soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

I have checked out every bike that has been mentioned in this thread. Locating a dealer for some of these brands on the other hand will take some time. So before I do that I can't really say anything about them.

---

In the meantime you can probably still say 'thanks' for the contributions made to this thread.

And, I'm really looking forward to welcoming your girlfriend to TE, and getting to know her when she signs on in the Getting To Know You forum.

I hope you've told your GF about TE and encouraged her to log on so we can support her and welcome her to the women's cycling community.

If you've checked out many of the other forums and threads on TE, you know how much support and encouragement we offer to each other and our newer women cyclists!

I second what Starfish said. :)

If your girlfriend is anything like many of us women, she'll want to learn as much as she can about biking as she begins to ride. Not saying you can't teach her plenty about cycling- but there many MANY issues, tips, and experiences related specifically to women cyclists that just can't be taught by one man. ;)

Hope you find a good bike for her!- Tell us when you do. And do tell your GF about the forum here. :)

Thanks for everyones help and advice. I ended up getting her a Trek 1600 WSD. She wanted a bike yesterday so I found a Trek dealer that was pretty helpful. She ended up with a WSD 51 and all she needed was a slightly longer stem.

I rode around the neighborhood with her last night and she seems to be comfortable. I'm going to take her to my training crit tonight so she can ride around traffic free.

I'll tell her to check out this forum!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

Thanks for everyones help and advice. I ended up getting her a Trek 1600 WSD. She wanted a bike yesterday so I found a Trek dealer that was pretty helpful. She ended up with a WSD 51 and all she needed was a slightly longer stem.

I rode around the neighborhood with her last night and she seems to be comfortable. I'm going to take her to my training crit tonight so she can ride around traffic free.

I'll tell her to check out this forum!

---

Good to read about all that Skunk! Send her our warmest welcome into the beautiful world of cycling. :)

Way to go!- she's got her own bike now and she's comfortable and she's riding!
I'm glad you stepped back from the idea of building her a bike for now. It's really more about her and clearing the way for her to enjoy just having fun on a bike at first. Other bikes can come later. ;)

Now your challenge will be to know when to hold back from the temptations of too much "teaching/correcting" and to just let her have fun without inviting your ego along. I say this not as an intended insult to YOU- it's not just you- it's human nature in general and we can all struggle with such issues. :) She'll have plenty of her own questions for you to answer, all in good time.
She is lucky to have someone who cares about her, like you, to ride with and be there for her. :p

I spent a good 15 minutes explaining the gearing to her. I told her not to worry too much about it and after a couple of rides it'll feel like second nature.

How long do guys think I should wait before introducing her to clipless pedals? My original plan was to wait till she was comfortable with riding on the road with traffic but I'm up for any suggestions. She already hates the fact that her feet slip off the flat pedals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

How long do guys think I should wait before introducing her to clipless pedals? My original plan was to wait till she was comfortable with riding on the road with traffic but I'm up for any suggestions. She already hates the fact that her feet slip off the flat pedals.

---

I would say the sooner the better. I rode with cages for the first year because the man who introduced me to cycling was comfortable with them and I didn't have the confidence to just go get my own clipless peddles.

A year later, I got started with some double sides Shimano SPDs, and I loved them immediately. Immediately.

But, the one big question mark is all about your GF's readiness. If she complains about the slipping feet, tell her there's a good option, and let her decide. Some people are more timid and like to make changes more slowly. Some want to dive in. She has to go with what level of risk-taking she is ready for.

That said, there are many, many threads here on TE all about making the transition to clipless, and she might be encouraged and comforted to read about other newbies who have gone through this decision.

I'm so glad your GF has her bike, and I second what Lisa said. Anyhow, here's to many happy rides together as your GF gets more and more confident, skilled, and enthusiastic.

I agree that it's better to start with the clipless pedals earlier, unless she expresses high fear of them (in which case it would be her decision to make).

They really change the cycling experience, for the better (in my experience).

Is she using clipless in spinning class?

I just looked up the specs, nice choice! The carbon fork should cut the harshness of the aluminum frame (which on a positive note lets her get a light frame at low cost), and the shimano 105 10spd group is very solid, I've seen reviews comparing it to the older 9spd ultegra. I am sure she will appreciate the short reach shifters, and and the appropriately sized cranks and bars that come on the wsd bikes. Its great she was fitted for it too. Its a good mid-level bike that should definitely let her figure out if she likes cycling or not. I would say once she's comfortable with the shifting, let her go clipless. Just, be sure the system is adjusted to let her clip out easily. I am a fan of speedplay frogs cuz they are so easy to get in/out of, even though they are a mountain pedal, and like having shoes with recessed cleats for walking around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SadieKate

Is she using clipless in spinning class?

---

I don't think she has ever used clipless in the gym. Always just sneakers on flat pedals with cages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

I just looked up the specs, nice choice! The carbon fork should cut the harshness of the aluminum frame (which on a positive note lets her get a light frame at low cost), and the shimano 105 10spd group is very solid, I've seen reviews comparing it to the older 9spd ultegra. I am sure she will appreciate the short reach shifters, and and the appropriately sized cranks and bars that come on the wsd bikes. Its great she was fitted for it too. Its a good mid-level bike that should definitely let her figure out if she likes cycling or not. I would say once she's comfortable with the shifting, let her go clipless. Just, be sure the system is adjusted to let her clip out easily. I am a fan of speedplay frogs cuz they are so easy to get in/out of, even though they are a mountain pedal, and like having shoes with recessed cleats for walking around.

---

I was looking into the new Speedplay Light Action pedals that are supposedly super easy to clip in and out of. Has anyone tried them? I use Speedplay Zeros and love the dual sided entry. The best part is I can even get them in a color to match her bike!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skunk

I was looking into the new Speedplay Light Action pedals that are supposedly super easy to clip in and out of. Has anyone tried them? I use Speedplay Zeros and love the dual sided entry. The best part is I can even get them in a color to match her bike!

---

No personal exp. with the light action, but I know several lightweight women on this board had problems with the zeros, which is in part what drove the development of the light action. I am a fan of speedplay though. If the reviews aren't good, you could always consider some tried and true X2s which I bet you could pick up on ebay. I know lots of women that like them.

My new bike is arriving tomorrow, and I'll be putting Speedplay Light Actions on it right away. I already have the pedals, and I already mounted the cleats to my new shoes. It will be my first time on clipless pedals, so I'll report back here about how it went!

I'm a super lightweight and I love the Speedplay X series. I have a small foot and they are very easy to clip out of. I was able to use them on my trainer after I tore my MCL/ACL and still clip out with the injured leg.

I haven't used the light action but they look like they are the right place to start.

There have been a couple of posts somewhere on here recently that said the Speedplay LightAction were really nice.

Looks like I'll be getting her those Speedplays!

They would be a good choice, as well as the Speedplay Frogs which people seem to rave about as well. Mountain bike shoes will enable her to walk "normally" in her recessed-cleat shoes as compared to hobbling/clacking along on road shoe cleats.

Have been on 3 rides with my new Light Action pedals. I did tip over once (embarrassing), but they are quite easy to get out of. Getting into them takes a little more weight than I thought it would, but I'm getting the hang of it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rij73

Have been on 3 rides with my new Light Action pedals. I did tip over once (embarrassing), but they are quite easy to get out of. Getting into them takes a little more weight than I thought it would, but I'm getting the hang of it!

---

Everyone falls as least once. When I first started riding clip less I fell over 4 times trying to clip in while going uphill. Don't be embarrassed ;)