Also... If you look through a gearage chart for a triple, you will see there are a number of duplications.[/QUOTE]
That is the whole reason why I have never seen the point in a triple! I forgot to mention that yesterday in my semi-glazed state.
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Also... If you look through a gearage chart for a triple, you will see there are a number of duplications.[/QUOTE]
That is the whole reason why I have never seen the point in a triple! I forgot to mention that yesterday in my semi-glazed state.
Sure there are duplications, but I do not want to give up my power gearing 52/12 or my long hill gearing 32/28 - there is no duplication at either extreme end and I want those gears.
Greedy, I suppose! :rolleyes:
You all do what you want. :)
Me - I'll stick with the gearing I have on my bikes. Heck, it got me through three double centuries so it must work all right for me. And in my world, it is all about me. :D
V.
Well said, MP.
Until you know what the grades and climbs are like here, the person's fitness level or other challenges (such as knee and back health), you can't really make an accurate recommendation.
Every single person who rides the same hills RussianHillGal will be has many years' experience riding centuries (or longer) and recommended a triple. These aren't newbies lacking fitness making the recommendation. Many of the strong male riders in this neck of the woods use triples. Those that don't are generally in split into two categories: 1) racers and genetically strong freaks and 2) idiots who due to their ego (or stubborness :D) prefer to grunt, groan and fall over on the climbs (assuming they haven't already destroyed their knees).
You go Ms. V.!!
I think it comes down to personal preference/comfort... or in my case, stubborness :eek: (I probably fall into SK's #2 category, except I only fall over when I'm off my bike)
spazz-of-the-broken-left-buttock
Ditto for me as well. It's all about V (err, me).Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
Enjoy whatever you end up getting, RHG. It'll be a lovely bike no matter what.
Coming in a little late here, but the original poster sounds a lot like me only 2 years ago and I wanted to share my experience. I have had 3 bikes...all with triples. I live in a hilly area where I rarely get a nice long flat section, but where super long hills are not the norm either. For my first 2 years of ridng (I'm a recreational rider), I used my granny gear quite frequently and I was in good shape. Now, I'm even stronger, and 100% of my riding near my home does NOT require my granny gear and as such, it sits idle.
BUT, when I head just a few miles west, my terrain more closely resembles what you girls in No Cal ride....hills that take hours to climb, grades in the double digits, etc. You better believe that I'm happy to have my triple then! My road bike is 19 lbs for short club rides and it flies up hills. When I load up for long (60 miles +) rides in unsupported areas, it's closer to 30 lbs...and that granny gear is a damn blessing.
My husband recently went through a double/compact double/triple debate as he bought a new (used) bike that came with a double on it. He switched to a compact, and didn't like it. Then he switched to a triple and now rides like I do...using the 'double' part around here and only using that granny gear when we head west.
Yes, if you are racing and every ounce matters, who wants to be carrying around that extra gear "just in case"? But for those of us who can save more weight by losing it off our bodies than by having a lighter crank set, a triple is quite often the best choice. :)
But SK that doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
sarcasm on You need to save that two grams or whatever a small chain ring weighs and the two seconds in shifting. And really only FREDS ride triples. How could we be encouraging a NEW rider to use a triple? Everyone will laugh and point as she spins her way up those 18% grades. Don't you know you're supposed to stand and have a cadence of less than 30 when you crest these big climbs? You've heard them laughing at us haven't you? sarcasm off
Actually I usually get the question, "Where did you get such a small chain ring?" And despite the smallness of my chain rings (48/36/24 with a 12x27 and 46/33 with an 11X34), oh maybe I'm not a REAL cyclist, those are tiny I still routinely get into the high 40s on descents and the twenties on the flat. Low to mid twenties, but still the twenties. Yes, MPH.
I fail to see how a triple will hamper RGH's progress in anyway. I think a standard compact double on the MOUNTAINS she wants to ride will make progress tough. Right Spazz? :p
V.
Yes Veronica... (and my memory suddenly floods with scenes from Archie comics).
I would bet (and put my stubborness aside for a moment) that had I lived here when I bought my bike, it would have had a triple.
I did have my stock double changed out to a compact after my Cinderella visit back in 2005, which DOES make things easier here than they would have been otherwise. But, it isn't easy... and I do have to work harder.
spass-hurts... er, I mean spazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdog
Sorry, but this made my laugh. I hope you feel better soon!
V.
V? Could you, purty please, go back and correct the grammar in my post that you quoted? I must have corrected it after you grabbed it for the quote and I just can't let that live for eternity. :rolleyes: (every single person has . . . )
Thank you.
That laughing you hear? It's those of us with triples who ride Cobb Mountain, Coleman Valley, and Diablo past those with doubles walking or careening all over the road just prior to falling over. Bwahahahahahaha!
Not laughing at spazz and her oobie though.:o Did you do it with style? Did you earn points?
Oh I know! I know! Get a Rohloff hub, then there's no overlap and you can shift when you're not moving. You never throw the chain, you don't have a front derailleur, no rear derailleur to break... It's the perfect solution!
V.
For style and points commentary, one will have to place an inquiry with Trek420... I think she saw the entire move.
And I've never walked up a hill... yet. As for Diablo, I've been there once - made it up about 6-7 miles then went down. I'll keep trying though, hopefully inching my way up as the season goes on.
The butt is best when standing at this point. Thankfully my work chair is an ergonomic wonder with a comfy butt cushion. The JEEP ride this morning was not as pleasant (ouch!)
spazz
OMG. That's just super funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
(Resisting urge to insert all kinds of disgusting grammar violations in above-quoted language....)
Glad to provide you the entertainment.
It just slays me when someone quotes me before I correct my own mistakes. I guess it is my own special form of engrish.:o
Ah, I see Ms V took pity on my plea. :)
Now, Now, let's not get carried away - I can ride Diablo including the top in my regular double and I don't even wobble! So, maybe, I'll be giggling as I pass you if I ever get out there to ride diablo again!Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
In the middle of a century? Then you would be one of those genetic freaks I mentioned because even the racers can be grunting and careening at the top.
Nope, just climb a lotQuote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
I love it! That's definitely me! :p
Veronica, DOUBLE centuries, wow, I can only dream!! Thanks for the gearing specs, now I know what to ask for on Saturday! :D
Wow, spokewench, you're really strong. I'm very impressed.
I don't know if you'll be able to get something that small with STI. I use friction shifters.Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianHillGal
I have bad knees and am not a little person. :) With just under 21% body fat I weigh 152. But with that gearing, I have yet to meet a climb I can't do while seated. To be able to finish a double century I need to keep my HR down, which for me, means not standing on a long climb. I actually tend to stand on the flats for the butt break and the stretch.
Have fun shopping!
V.
No, really just stubborn! I didn't mean to brag but was challenged by Sadie's post. Don't get me wrong, I do have to stand at the top of Diablo, I just don't wobble! I think it is stubborness and good balance! If all you've ever ridden with is a double on a road bike, you make do!Quote:
Originally Posted by jobob
Have fun shopping, RHG
Here are my specs too if you are interested.
On my road bike I have a compact... 50/34 in front and 27-12 (10 speeds) in back. I climb with relative ease on this bike.
On my TT bike I have an 'ordinary' double... 5053/39 on front and 26-12 (10 speeds) on back. This bike is a bit more of a grunt to climb on - but I usually ride flat courses on it.
Have fun shoppong - what ever you decide on we expect DETAILS!!! :D
Wow! That's great. You should sign up for the Devil Mountain Double then.Quote:
Originally Posted by spokewench
RHG hasn't been riding for twenty years like you have. I believe her post said she had not been on a bike for twenty years. So what works for a twenty year veteran is probably not best for a new rider.
What works for someone with short, sub two mile steep hills, is probably not appropriate for steep 10 - 15 mile hills either, especially not for a new rider.
Now in three months she may be coming back and saying, "Oh you were all wrong! The best way to climb a hill is on a Vespa!" :p
I look forward to seeing you on Tam RHG.
V.
So RHG - you are doing this with TNT? Or just under the "supervision" of a TNT coach friend? I ask because I know some of the coaches in the SF area, and was just wondering if we might have friends in common.
I'm one of the 2 head coaches (but the only one who matters :cool: because the other's my husband) for the Redwood Wine Country Death Ride team. I've been working with TNT since 1999.
I know RWC did the Marin metric as a training ride last year. Don't know if they're doing it again. I'll probably do the double, but as V mentioned, if you do the "Mt. Tam century" you'll ride basically the first half of the double course, which is very cool.
I'm curious... how long are the rides you are doing on this? How long are the hills and how steep? I know you said you are 600 feet above sea level. But is it a mile to sea level, five or twenty?Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRaven
I ask because if all your rides look like this... a double is perfectly fine. This is all short steep rollers and you can grunt your way over. But if you are doing terrain like the other profile I posted, back on page 1 I think... you're super strong and shouldn't be giving advice to new riders. :D
V.
RHG - I meant to include this in my earlier post...my triple is pretty standard. 52/42/30 in front and 12-27 in back. But point of note, I also have a 9-speed and new bikes now come with 10. :D
I've not ridden mine on a 15%+ grade yet, but it works great in the 8-12% range. I will be breaking that 15% threshold on May 5th though (at mile 85 :eek: ), so I'll let you know how it goes.
And doing it in the middle of a 100 mile ride as the original poster stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
Veronica: I'm not into doubles, but what is the Devil Mountain Double?Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
Maybe I could ride it on my boss's VESPA!
That graph could totally be done with a compact double. I do stuff like that all the time with a 50/36 12-27. That graph isn't nearly as bad as the earlier one in that a lot of the hard hills are only around 200ft gains. I don't get out to that terrain as often as I'd like to do 65+ mile rides, but I can hang on for 50 just fine. With a 50/34, there'd be no problem at all. My cadence doesn't go below 60rpm on a hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
I did this one last year. It is one of the harder days of racing (at least available to people at my low cat) you'll find in this area - caveats abound - this is a race and most of the people who choose this race climb well.
My gearing for this race was a standard 39/53 on the front, largest on back 27. I was very tired at the end of this race, but never wobbled or fell over. I'm not going to suggest that everyone go out and buy a standard double right off the bat. Nor will I suggest that everyone would be happy with one in the long term. Just do your homework and see what kind of rider you think you will be. Of course its hard to even know until you go out and do it.
I did go the route of buying a triple on the first bike I bought in about 15 years in 2005, and then discovered racing - so I did end up replacing that bike in only a year. Coming off of my 90's vintange Trek I would have laughed out loud if you suggested that I wouldn't need a triple so it really seemed like the right thing to do. New lighter frames and the fact that I could actually buy a small enough bike made a difference I could never have imagined. Honestly I don't know if I had a compact double in the first place if I would have kept that bike or not, but swapping the triple would have been more exensive than I could have justified for that frame.
Veronica,
Those look like the Aids Ride terrain charts. If so, I did it on a double but had a larger cassette in back. Also, I was in shape back then.
Everyone has far more experience than me so I'm trying to stay out. That being said, I have a compact double. I love it, it shifts better than DH's triple (and I've never lost a chain) but it does have its limitations. I'm thinking about putting a larger cassette on the back because I have a 12-25 as of now. If someone is out of shape, even a compact double will be a challenge sometimes. So...I'm not regretting the compact double whatsoever but I can see why people would ride a triple.
bowing out now :)
http://www.caltriplecrown.com/images/DMProfileS.jpg
This is the elevation for the Devil Mountain Double. To the top of Mt. Hamilton is 13,000 feet of elevation gain. There is another 7,000 between Hamilton and the end.
By themselves, these are all hard climbs. Diablo, I think, is actually one of the easier ones. The backside of Hamilton averages out to 8 or 9%. Sierra Rd's average is around 10%. Those sections where it flattens out to 5 or 6% are a welcome relief.
http://www.caltriplecrown.com/images/MtTamElevation.jpg
This is the chart for the Mt. Tam Double. RHG plans on doing the first 100 miles I believe. On this ride I think the worst climb is after the Santos Meadow Rest Stop. It's a very steep climb up Rte. 1. It's short and if you had not already climbed Tam, wouldn't be bad. If you didn't have 50 more miles to go (or in my case 150!) I'm sure it could be done on a standard double.
V.
Ahhh... that's my point. The second graph is rollers, not our typical terrain. That ride was 90 minutes away from me, probably two hours away for RHG. And she plans 100 miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by aicabsolut
V.
All I know is I try not to make gearing recommendations for areas in which I don't live or ride. I look at the gearing used by riders that I think are my peers ability-wise (not racers, not genetic freaks, etc.) even if they are in better shape. That tells me what gear range I need to consider and then I determine what components are necessary to provide that range. And a widely spaced cassette just so you can run a double absolutely sucks on flat terrain.
If you're racing, you have a whole different rationale for choosing components.
And if you only ride 50-60 miles distance at most, I don't think you can understand what gears one may need at mile 99.
Wow, those are really hard rides for 200 miles. I've ridden all those climbs on the Devil Mountain Double and some of them are pretty hard! I agree with you, Diablo is probably one of the easier ones, it never gets hard except right at the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
I'm not a long distance rider though. 100 or so mies is enough for me and I call it quits. Don't like to be on the bike that long.
I was on the TNT xc ski team (Winter 06-07) & just signed up for the TNT Nike Women's team. So yes, I’m just being “supervised” for the cycling (I don’t think I could fundraise for 3 events in one year). I'm so looking forward to Saturday!!:D
Great discussion. What an eye-opener! I'm riding with a 42/52 chainring and a 13/26 cassette (seven cogs) (friction shifting). I haven't fallen over yet, but it sounds like it's just a matter of time. I see an upgrade in my future....
Sure you can. It is a function of the curve of the front derailleur matching the size of the rings and then the tooth differential between the large and small. With Campy I can have a 24 tooth differential (26 inner and 50 outer on the Litespeed, 26 to 48 on the Kelly, 28-52 on the Mercian). I think Shimano is about the same but the spec's would say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
I've never researched what can be down with STI or Campy. Hate to give advice on something I know very little about. :) You're the gear guru SK. I was hoping you'd say if it could be done.
V.