Why, yes I did. No one else would answer my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
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Why, yes I did. No one else would answer my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
I had no idea this thread was taking off the way it did, thanks for all the comments!
It is reassuring to hear that the learning process is continuing for even the experienced cyclists, at least for the most part. I think taking one of these clinics or finding a coach might be a really good idea.
In reality, I had one big goal this year (the PMC), with several implied goals since I had not biked before (get base fitness, learn general riding in road traffic, learn clipless, learn my bike etc etc). Once it was over I could take stock of what I learned from March to August/now, and now that I know this is something I want to continue and improve, this kind of feedback is very helpful in understanding how I can make progress. I guess, at a very high level, this thread could have been titled "what are good things to learn to be a better cyclist" and gotten similar responses. Road riding is a lot more than what I learned as a kid riding a 10 speed.
[random sidebar - I used to ride my ten speed around our neighborhood cul de sacs imagining I was a famous bike racer. This was before I knew anything about the TdF or other races, but I knew racing existed. I had a peugeot hat that I wore regularly, the ones that had the small brims. If there'd been any competitive options for me as a kid in my small town I probably would have loved that.]
It's funny some of the things mentioned here I'd stumbled upon myself, such as getting way back in my seat for uphills, shifting early and 'pacing' my gears. I hated hills at first, because I was lacking either of these techniques. Once I somehow sorted this out I actually got half decent at going up them. Other things mentioned here I don't know if I've innately done or not, like using the hips to turn thing. But it's all very interesting to realize that the opportunity for learning is great, and someone's riding can really benefit from making a bit of effort to learn.
SadieKate if u go to the Bicycling Mag website and put "Jeremy" in the search the article will come up. Don't know what issue it is hard copy wise.
Thanks. See post #35 before Adventure Girl's wiseacre remarks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyclChyk
I'm still working on getting my water bottle out of the holder, drinking, and putting it back while riding. And all that without getting my heart rate up so high, I need to take a break...
I can do this now!!! But only if I am going real slow, on a straight stretch, and ONLY with my left hand. Even tho I am right handed I feel very wobbly trying to go for the bottle with my right hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelownagirl
I have so much to learn.
This is an aside, but I want to share:
I was driving home the other day during rush hour and I get to this intersection where a bike is in the left lane (going to turn left), waiting for the light to change. It's a little bit uphill there, and this guy is clipped in, at one of the busiest intersections around, standing up, COMPLETELY STILL, just chilling. Bike wheel turned a little left, butt sticking up in the air, no wobbles, no rocking the wheel around, no slow crawl forward. Completely still. Light changes, off he goes. I hate him....only because I want to be him. :(
I can't begin to phathom that kind of balance....... only in my dreams.
I want to master track stands...only because I'm so lazy that it would save me from unclipping. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by aicabsolut
:D
Pssst...
:cool:
SK and AG... you guys crack me up!!!
:) :D :) :D :)
I've been thinking about this thread for awhile.
These are changes I've noticed in my riding over the years.
Snot Rockets - at first I would stop every 10 minutes and blow my nose with a tissue. That got old, so with Thom's encouragement I started doing snot rockets. At first, I'd get it all over me, and I'd have to coast to do it. Then I mastered the technique, but still needed to coast. Now, I can maintain whatever speed I'm at and generally it goes where it is supposed to.
Water Bottle Reach - at first I would need to coast and look at the bottle. Then it became coast and grab the bottle w/o looking. Now it is keep pedaling and grab the bottle.
Descents - the first time I took a corner faster than I wanted to on a descent was eye opening. Nothing bad happened! And I just sort of took off from there. I'm cautious on roads I don't know. But I don't ride the brakes. And I can't really explain what I do. I know I look through the corner as far as I can. I use most of the lane if I am doing the speed limit (or exceeding it!) Almost passed another motorcycle today. I try to NEVER go out of my lane on a descent. The motorcycle did. I'm not perfect and it happens sometimes. I learn from the mistakes. I haven't crashed yet. :D
Brake Quick Release - The first time this didn't get closed, I stopped and had to think about what could be wrong. Today when I realized it was open, I reached forward as I was riding and closed it. I just knew that was why I had no front brake.
Tool Usage - I am often by myself in the middle of nowhere. I never considered myself especially mechanically inclined. The day I broke my front derailleur, Thom was home and could come pick me up. But before he got to me, I had almost completely removed the broken derailleur. Why? because if he hadn't been home, I'd have been stuck ten miles from home with the choice of walk or find a fix.
I know I tend to reflect on my rides, both on what was good and what was not so good. I didn't get here by reading a book or someone telling me what to do in various situations. Every mile I ride adds to my wisdom. :)
V.
You're a very wise woman, Veronica.
You're supposed to do it while riding backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyclChyk
;)
Oh lisalisa - what are you trying to do to me girl?? :D
I like your advice of "just do it!" MUCH better! :p
Oh and are SNOT ROCKETS what I think they are ???? My god it would be all over my face!
Ah, we finally get to the guts of this discussion. Thanks for putting it so well, Veronica.
To learn new skills, we have to put ourselves in the situation to learn and be willing to try. Those of us who don't ride with a group often aren't going to learn group-riding skills, even though we may be very skilled riders otherwise. I can't do trackstands because I've never bothered to go out and practice (there's no guarantee I'd learn if I practiced, but I certainly won't learn if I don't try). Some things we pick up through years of riding, like grabbing the water bottle while pedaling or high-speed pot-hole avoidance, but other things (maybe snot-rockets) take more conscious effort. I've never learned the snot-rocket, so it either goes on my gloves or I pull a bandana from my pocket and wipe while riding. I can put a gloved hand on my front tire to remove road debris if something gets stuck on the tire. But I'm not skilled at 50 mph descents because I never ride hills long enough to hit that speed. I do think that maybe those of us who started riding in the 70s and 80s had a learning edge over those who start riding now, because with downtube shifters you were forced to take either hand off the bar frequently so you immediately got comfortable riding one-handed either side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica
Re Water Bottles: are we talking about a) taking them out of our WB holders while riding or b) picking them up off the ground while riding by?
I've been out trying to pick them up off the ground while riding by -- gonna take a lot more practice for that and that's on a "girl's" bike w/ dropped top tube. Don't even think I'll practice it with a regular top tube.
So, real question is, how can I get five-year's experience in six months?;)
THIS is why the article was so interesting! The guy (Jeremy) needed to learn quick...otherwise, he was a danger to himself and his fellow riders. I think that for most of us, it doesn't happen so quickly...so we have time to develop our skills at a normal pace. How many women (or men, for that matter) decide to start riding and within 3 months are riding with the 'A' riders at a pace of 20mph? I'm guessing not many! Yes, they are out there and those are the people that need to develop their skills at an accelerated pace (steeply...like SK said!). The rest of us can work on it as we build up our miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeLady
And seriously, for those of you wondering...don't let the inability to pick a water bottle off the ground keep you from riding on the roads or with a group! Just pick a group that suits your pace/skill level. I'm a solid intermediate rider and I cannot pick up a bottle from the groud. I would not join an advanced group ride not just because the fear of being dropped (which really doesn't bother me) but more because I'm not skilled enough to hang with a paceline at 25 mph. I want to develop better handling skills because I want to race one day, but until that day, I'm sure as hell going to do what I can to improve on my own. :)
Good points GLC - I'm sure not a threat to any 25 mph pace line.
A skill I would like to improve is no hands while in my clips (which I would never do around any other rider!). Made progress today but have to be on smooth pavement and start with feet in 3 and 9 position, get balanced and only then can I pedal. Use to be able to do this easily in the 70s, but then wasnt clipless (nor did I use clips).
I still haven't gotten endos for my flat bar and my hands get numb after awhile so this to me is more necessary than picking up a water bottle from the ground.
ummmm unconsciously? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
I surely hope not - that could be REALLY dangerous. Of course if you are unconscious, I hope that something is steering you (the hips will do).
:D :p
Most certainly I agree. I am not letting my inability to do all kinds of things keep me from riding, nor should anyone else. I am just realizing that I don't know what I don't know... and this article made me think about it, as of course has this board. My 3rd group ride ever was with oh, 4000 others give or take, and in hindsight I learned a lot on that ride. I knew it'd be a lot of people and so I rode pretty defensively anyway, but I learned a lot just by watching others and being out in the masses. Maybe that level of immersion training isn't the best idea, but it's what I did and now group riding seems pretty manageable whether its 3 or 100. (Well, except pacelines and formations, that's another level).Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
All these answers have given me ideas though. I have never done parking lot drills and it sounds like a great idea - the zigzag, the braking, the figure 8s, all of it. Sure, most of you stumbled upon these things through riding a lot, but by your telling me I can have some ideas of things to try that will help my cycling without having to stumble upon all of it. I will probably try some of this on my old sturdy mtn bike, first, then progress to the road bike.
I'm sure I'll still make my own discoveries too, and I won't come back and say "hey how come none of you ever told me about <XYZ>." :D I realize that's not how it works. But the fun part is sharing the knowledge, so I appreciate all the input that's come out in the thread.
OK, I had to come back here and post about this. When Velogirl mentioned that we steer with our hips, I thought to myself "well, of course...sure...that makes sense" but I never actually thought about it while on the bike, until last night. On my commute home (in the parking lot before I left), I decided to try paying attention to how I was steering. Small swerves were done with my hips, but when I needed to turn big, I used my handlebars. So then I tried to not use my handlebars. I gripped my bike a little harder with my legs and leaned into the turns more. It was like a big ole lightbulb went on in my head!! :eek: OMG...so THIS is how the guys I ride with make those turns so tightly? The rest of the ride home, I found myself looking forward to turns where there were no traffic lights so that I could practice turning at a good clip. Then I did the same thing coming in this morning. Turns are fun...who knew?! :rolleyes:
One small comment and I've just made a sizable leap in my cycling abilities!! :D Man, I love TE!! (and special thanks to Velogirl for stating what seemed to be the obvious...but in reality, isn't! :p )
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
Steering (slight changes in direction) and cornering are actually different skills. For cornering, we use a skill called counter-steering: outside leg down and weighted (you're standing on it), inside arm pushing the bar, bike leaning into the turn, body leaning back out, outside thigh pushing into the saddle nose, and looking (with your head, not just your eyes) around the turn. Oh, and I also recommend leading with your inside knee although some folks teach that you grab the top tube with your inside knee. Much easier to do than describe.
The only time we actually use the bar to steer or corner is at very low speed -- under 7mph (ie mountain bike switchbacks or something similar).
That's a mouthful! ;) Actually, as I stand here at my desk trying to imagine what you are saying...I *think* this is what I was doing with my bike this morning. The position that your description puts me into feels like what I felt like on my bike when I really pushed the turn. I did grip the tube with my inside knee, but I can see how having it out would be a benefit as well. Very interesting!Quote:
Originally Posted by velogirl
I can definitely say that doing this I felt more like my bike was an extension of me...or that I was DRIVING my bike and not just sitting on it while it moved. :D
That's what I try to teach folks, as corny and zen as it may sound. We want to ride "with" our bikes, not "on" our bikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
:confused:
As a road rider/mountain biker/future cyclocrosslass, I have to say that mountain biking has GREATLY improved my road handling skills. HOWEVER, I just can't seem to get the 'cornering' thing. I think I am the only mountain biker on earth who dreads going downhill - mainly because of cornering. Bikehubby's trails are very switchbacky (is that a word?), windy, full of close trees and I love them....uphill. I can do uphill switchbacks, but downhill???? Dab-city. Slam on Brakes County. Endo when brakes work too good State. I get the feeling that Rocky might rather do the corners himself and just have me wait at the bottom.
Why is this cornering thing so difficult to grasp???
And I think that Velo has a great point, way back at the beginning....we just all hop on a bike and if we remain upright, then we can ride! Woohoo! But the more I get into it, the more I realize that I need to know more!
Fear is a big limiter in sports. When we go faster (ie dwnhill) it will hurt more if we crash. We feel out of control. We don't trust (ourselves, others, the trail or road, our equipment). As adults, we're taught to be in control, so releasing control in a situation like this is difficult. You're not alone in your fear of descending. That's probably the #1 skill that I teach.
In order to learn to descend correctly, you need to learn to corner first. Descending switchbacks or a curvy road is the same skill as cornering. We use counter-steering (described above). I recently participated in a mtn bike clinic with Marla Streb (yep, I'm name dropping) and she describes it as body-bike separation. In order to engage a larger contact patch on the tire, you have to lean the bike (a lot), but to do that you have to counter with your weight on the opposite side. One of the best ways to learn this is to practice on a flat field or lot. Once you feel okay on the grass, progress to dirt or gravel (still flat). Then, you have to consciously learn to do this as you descend. Eventually, it will become intuitive and you won't have to think about it.
Nice Description Velo girl. Another thing that I finally learned on corning on a mountain bike a few years ago - it was kind of a zen experience - is that especially in a tight corner - you need to go into the corner wide and then it is easier to come around. I used to try to cut the corner too tight and then run out of room going round. Let's see if I can describe it - putting my front tire practically to the burm on the turn and then turning the rest of the bike.
Don't know if that was much of a description but it sure helped me once I figured it out.
Me = Jealous, Velo-
Fear is a bit limiter for me - For some reason, I'm not a big fan of pain....and then the last time I was at the ER after mountain biking, they had a group of people come in and talk to me about the signs of abuse....but they wouldn't let me press charges against my mountain bike.....
Those are good points, Velo and spokewench - And I think it is practice, practice, practice, but sometimes, I feel like I have reached a plateau on skills and just need someone to push me off....Um, so, Velo.....how about coming out to ride Vermont trails... maybe slip in a workshop or three....:D
Could this be "Jeremy?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7GEE36uS8:eek:
Think what VeloGirl said in the beginning is a really good point, about how we wouldn't try to drive a car without instruction, so why would we do that on a bike? I have also been reflecting upon my first season as a new rider and thinking about what I want to accomplish next season. Improving my handling skills is at the top of the list, primarily for descending (which I love and I want to do it even faster) and obstacle avoidance (the bike paths, I'm sorry "multi-use" paths, can get very crowded). I was so shocked when I first got my bike and tried reaching for my water bottle (in the cage) and I could barely take my hand off the bars. I figured since I could do this on my mtb (not that I'm a mtb rider), I should be able to do it straight away on my road bike. WRONG! I've worked up to being able to do it while pedaling, next I'd like to be able to do it with my right hand as well. Oh, and the snot thing is funny, my nose runs at the slightest bit of wind or cold, so I'm the kleenex queen. I was so happy when I learned how to reach in my jersey pocket for my tissue and blow my nose while keeping pace. There isn't really enough of it for a snot rocket, but often too much for the glove alone . . .
The most impressive thing I've ever seen on a bike was in the TDF when one of the riders was having a problem with his rear derailleur. The mechanic pulled up in the car on his left side, reached through the rider and his top tube and around to adjust the derailleur, meanwhile the rider could not touch the car, so he maintained his hands on his bars, all at around 25 mph, OMG. :eek: