WSD bikes and Cranky LBS owner

I wonder whether the guy's "legs in front of the crank" remark referred to that rule of thumb wherein a plumb line dropped from a certain point on the knee should bisect the pedal axle. If so, it's got to be a vast overgeneralization. I mean, it may be true for some WSD bikes that are set up in a certain way, but it's certainly not true of all of them. And whether it even matters depends to a large degree on your particular cycling needs and desires.

I agree with Sue's point, that this guy sounds like the type who think everyone should ride like he does and the ones who don't--well, they don't count. What an a$$! Avoid him like the plague.

I bought a trek 7.2 fx wsd hybrid about 6 weeks ago and haven't had to adjust anything since I left the shop. It's comfy and easy to ride. The bike I had before was a crappy chain store mountain bike so I've got nothing to compare with. I'm 5' 2" and would buy another wsd when I progress to my road bike....which I feel is coming :D

The bike shop should sell you what fits and what you like. Not what they like or dislike. I went with the intention of buying a Pilot and ended up with a Trek 1000. DH really wanted a Pilot, yet preferred a 1000.

I do not have a WSD, the "regular" 1000 fit me perfectly. I did have a difficult time deciding between the Pilot and 1000, both rode nicely.

Chose what fits your body best, and what you like being on and feel good on.

When I went for a ride today, I checked out my knee to the crank. It looks on top of it to me.

I think it just depends on the person. I do have short arms and that might be why I find the Pilot WSD so comfortable. Who knows?

But the main thing is that guy is cranky and out to prove he's right so I'd steer clear of him and find someone who is most interested in finding what is comfortable for you.

Two points:

1. Even if smaller WSD bikes typically have a steeper top tube, you can use a setback seatpost and/or move your saddle back on the rails as far as it will go to get your knee over the pedal spindle (KOPS) or even a bit behind it. I know because I have a 75-degree seat tube angle bike (Aegis Swift) and still have my KOPS with these methods.

2. Not all of us prefer WSD bikes to have a more upright position; the way we are built sometimes dictates a shorter top tube proportionally if we have a shorter upper body/arms. We might still have our handlebars lower and/or ride in the drops a lot.

IMO, the guy was a jerk and lumped all WSD bikes into one category when they can't be, any more than "all" mountain bikes, or "all" recumbents, or any other sub-segment of bikes. I'd avoid that shop on principle!

Emily

My local LBS just got some in, but w/local events these next couple of weeks, are behind on getting them together. But they're putting one together for me to test ride a 1.0. later this week. We'll see. I think they'll be popular in my area(the pilots) that is. They've ordered a fair amt of them.

Woah - talk about an axe to grind - sheesh!

Sounds like this LBS owner is more or less dead set against any and all WSD bikes, not to mention the Pilot ones too. Which is, as has been pointed out, an enormous generalization. Also let's mention the obvious, Mr. LBS owner can ride his man bikes all day and doesn't need (or want) a WSD setup like we might. In addition, so fine, the pilot or WSD bikes fit some people poorly - hello? what bike doesn't!

Thankfully the LBS I do business with has plenty of WSD bikes in all sorts of sizes. I've had my '07 Trek 1600 for 6 weeks now, and it is a 57 too, so they keep a good stock. I used to have a man bike, an 06 trek 1500 but my present bike feels light years better. So the idea that WSD bikes are only for petite gals is also a stereotype - i'm 5'10".

You'll be happier doing your bike shopping elsewhere methinks :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

Two points:
2. Not all of us prefer WSD bikes to have a more upright position; the way we are built sometimes dictates a shorter top tube proportionally if we have a shorter upper body/arms. We might still have our handlebars lower and/or ride in the drops a lot.

Emily

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I've wondered about this - I actually ride in the drops most of the time and prefer it to the more upright position. Knowing that most people seem to prefer the hands on the brake hoods, I have wondered if it means something needs adjusting, or if it's just a personal preference. Is there any downside to riding this way more?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tygab

I've wondered about this - I actually ride in the drops most of the time and prefer it to the more upright position. Knowing that most people seem to prefer the hands on the brake hoods, I have wondered if it means something needs adjusting, or if it's just a personal preference. Is there any downside to riding this way more?

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Part of it is personal preference. But ideally you'd like at least 2 bar positions that you are moderately comfortable in just so you can change positions frequently and avoid hand/arm/shoulder fatigue. If you find yourself riding the drops 80-90% of the time, then you might be better off lowering the bars so that you can go to the drops when you want to be extra low, like during fast descents. This transfers more weight to the front wheel and improves stability. Your preferred riding position may change with time as you get stronger or more used to the bike or more or less flexible. The number to check is the vertical distance between saddle top and handlebar top. Bars about 2 inches below saddle is sort of standard for a rider with moderate flexibility. Racers will put the bars lower, tourers higher. But bars have different drop distances so it can be hard to compare.

That LBS guy is a jerk who is completely incapable of imagining body types besides his own. I don't think I'll ever need a WSD bike, but I'm 5'8" with a long torso for a woman and really, really long arms. My aunt in contrast, is 5'2" with the same 30" inseam as I have! She's 65 and has never been comfortable on a bike and finds it amazing that anyone would like it. She has to reach too far. Gee, I wonder why. :rolleyes: Well, I visit her next month and I'm going to see if she'll go take a test ride on a WSD bike. Even if she doesn't want one, at least she'll know why it's always hurt for her to ride.

I wrote a long post about how changing my stem out today for a shorter stem really improved my riding position and comfort:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=9998

I have a GIANT OCR1 WSD (Compact Frame) with the WSD shifters - and whole-heartedly believe it's the only thing that could work for me. (I am 5'6") I have longish legs (long femurs) but a shorter torso, and short arms. All of the Men's bikes (or even the non-compact framed bikes, gave me too much of a reach.
IMHO, the LBS should let you make the decision of what is best for you. Only you will know what feels right. Even the anatomical variancies of your..um...girly bits...can make a difference in your fit.
Just because a man and woman may be the same height and weight you can not assume that they will fit equally on the same equipment.

I have a very good friend who runs a very sucessful bike shop and he does sell alot of Trek Pilots both regular and WSD. I sortof understand the reason your bike shop guy doesn't like the Pilot and the WSD bikes. I'm hoping he was actually much more patient with you and explained why the Pilot and and WSD appears "gimmicky" to him (as my friend and I have discussed this at length - he agrees with your LBS guy) and why it wouldn't be a good fit for you.

This is why I am an advocate of having a bike fit done by a professional fitter, someone not associated with a bike shop that sells certain brands. Shops are limited on the models and brands they can sell. They will push what they can sell. I have heard many women order a WSD style bike and are totally unhappy, thus forcing the shop to take back a bike they didn't want in the first place and can't sell. Just make sure the WSD model is really for you. The Pilot is a very upright bike. With the shorter top tube, you might actually be sitting bolt upright. Just not a good cycling position especially if you are serious about riding.

There is a misnomer about having to sit upright if you have shoulder/neck problems. I have a very serious neck/spine degeneration and I am fairly laid out on my bike. My back is almost paralell (sp?) to the top tube. I have no neck problems but I did have a good fitting and I can comfortably reach the handlebars, shifters, brakes etc and I have learned to strengthen my core muscles and ride properly.

The LBS guy is right, but then again so is the customer. I really think he was trying to do the right thing and not sell you a bike you won't in the long run, like. He could have just sold it to you (and it's not cheap!) and if you were unhappy, oh well, tough luck! I rather a shop refuse to sell me something if they thought it wasn't right for me.

I just bought my very first WSD bike (Trek 1000 ) and LOVED IT! I'm only 5'2" and short-waisted with very long legs (29" inseam) but have always ridden longer/taller bikes. Unlike Sadie, I just rode what the bike came with because my ex never thought to switch anything out and I never knew any better.

When I climbed on the WSD: the best explanation I can come up with was it was like sitting in a recliner after being in a straight-back chair! The seat wasn't set right and the stem was too high and it STILL felt llike the best bike I'd ever ridden. It felt like it was built "just for me". Once we reversed the stem and set the seat to my height it was like flying. It is truly the best bike I have ever ridden (next to the Harley of course. ;) )

I think you should go with what feels the best for you, and not worry about someone else's opinion (except for ours here on the board of course :p )

and let us know what you ended up with..........


as for the LBS: I wouldn't go there but then, I hate having people tell me what I can and can't do.

I got a bike! I ended up NOT getting a pilot becasue I rode the Lemond Tourmalet WSD and fell in love with it(her?)
This bike seems to be in between the pilot and more traditional road bikes. Though it isn't as upright as the pilot, I am "up" enough to feel comfortable. Now I know what everyone means when they say when you find the right bike you know :)

BTW. Cranky bike shop owner wll be glad to know i have a bike where my legs are behind the crank but from a nicer shop! I feel like the place I got it from wanted me to find the best bike for me, not make a point!

Thanks to everyone for all of your help/ideas. I love this forum!