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good catch on the old post... I never would have seen that!! Someone must have been digging way deep to ressurrect that thread...Maybe the "posting education" could focus on not replying to things that are like, 6+ months old? I do agree tho that derailed threads can be disconcerting. There's always a bit of multi-directional flow, but if it's truly a different topic why not just start a new thread?
Irulan
Wow that was harsh. I didn't know this group got into it like that. Well, because I'm apparently one of the self-absorbed hijackers on this board, I feel I must apologize to those of you who seem unable to grasp more than one issue at a time.Quote:
Not all of us are so self absorbed as to hijack your exitement to whine about insurance.
And is it whining to share experiences so others might learn? I guess I need to look up the definition of "discussion." I agree it might've been easier to follow the topics if a new thread re insurance had been created (and more people could have joined in), but I didn't know we weren't allowed to go off topic in the "open topic" forum.
Well, sorry to hijack the thread -- I'll try to keep my posts on separate threads now. Is there a "whining about the whiners" forum? I'm sure I'm being discussed there.
~Christine
nope not whining to share experieces, isn't that what this whole forum is about?
I confess I found it very disconcerting to go a thread about bike shopping that I had contributed to and found an (IMO) extreme drift onto "my bike was stolen" For me ( just my opinion here) it was kind of like" huh? where did that come from?" But no matter...let's just move on...
When we want to whine about each other we ususally do it by PM.:D :D
Irulan
Well, sorry, but an excited teenager who's taking up racing deserves to have her questions answered, not be ignored and have the thread run off with by older people carrying on about something she knows or cares very little about. I think we owe the next generation better manners than that ugly trick of belittling kids by ignoring them and talking over their heads. Seen it plenty in person, recognize it for what it is. Alaska Biker Girl deserves the apology here. If you can't support her excitement over pursuing sports, stay out of the thread. Personally, I hope she shows up in the lower 48 some day and smokes you girls- 16 is a great age to develop the athletes who'll go far.
One hopes that women athletes would have risen above the kind of pettiness that most women visit on each other. Having your bike stolen is a good reason to start a thread- but no excuse to stomp on the needs of a young rider seeking support and information. Maybe you all need to have an emotional insecurity thread and trade tips on how to kick kids in the shins of their self esteem? You think I'm harsh? That's not harsh. Treating a sixteen year old girl as inconsequential, that's harsh. And kinda mean.
Private mail has a place, but even if I could figure out how to use it, that's time better spent trying to help out younger riders. Or in this case, painting my toenails. I shouldn't have to make remarks like that to get anybodies attention, and it was intended to do just that. So what are you gonna do girls, tell the whole high school I'm a sl*t? I haven't behaved inappropriatly here- if anything I pulled that punch to a tap with a feather. As I've done with some choice bits here.
All you insurance addled ladies would do well to use PM- to write Alaska, apologize, and ask how you can help. It would be a good example of sportsmanship, which you can look up in the dictionary. And it's the example she's looking to us for.
Liz Claiborne
As was mentioned earlier, the teenager is probably 18 by now. At least some people have matured.Quote:
So what are you gonna do girls, tell the whole high school I'm a sl*t?
It is rather patronizing to think that because of her youth, Alaska would be unable to follow a thread that, as so often happens on message boards, was momentarily off-track. I would also think that if her questions had not been answered, she'd have the wherewithal to redirect us to her original post and not need her "aunt" to shoo away any distractions. To think otherwise is condescending.
Irulan, I appreciate your suggestions and efforts to keep the peace. I realize that by simply answering Alaska's questions, rather than spew vitriolic comments, you attempted to nudge the rest of us back to the original question. In fact, that seemed to do the trick since -- for those of you lacking reading comprehension skills -- insurance was no longer being discussed.
Unfortunately, I don't have the tolerance to withstand obnoxious and ignorant personal attacks. I was hoping to learn from the women on this board, and really enjoyed what appeared to be a congenial atmosphere of sharing. Thank you for an otherwise enjoyable experience.
So, I leave "Liz Claiborne" to the rest of you. Good luck!
MissLiz I guess you didn't notice that Alaska Biker Girls post is two years old. It was also her only post - ever.
I don't think your last post was harsh. I think it was rude and inappropriate. New users are not going to want to come here and get advice and help when they read the abuse you heap out on people whom you know nothing about.
Veronica
My name is Susan Otcenas and I'm the President of Team Estrogen.
Although we follow the forums very closely, we have a policy of being "hands off" with respect to active moderation of posts. However, this recent thread and comments made in it disturbs us greatly. While its true that the posts did drift a bit from the original topic, the main thrust of the conversation was bike-related and, in our opinion, wholly appropriate to the forum as a whole.
We have been privately contacted by a number of people on the forum, several of whom have taken offense at some of the impolitic comments posted by some members. At least one has made the decision to leave the forum. We have asked her to reconsider.
I am in the process of trying to personally contact the parties involved. In the meantime, I would like to ask that participants on the forum be mindful of the feelings and sensitivities of others. We do not wish to bar anyone from the forums, but will not tolerate offensive behavior towards others.
Its a perfect bike-riding day here in Oregon. Let's get out and ride!
Susan
Susan, I understand the challenges here as I moderate an active web forum somewhere else. My goal with this post is to repsectfully offer some commentary from a very long time internet user. I'd like to offer the comment that I feel that it does seriously affect the flow of a board to completely stray off the stated topic. I'm not talking about discussion flow, I am referring to the above example of bike theft in a "new bike" thread which in my opinion is as off base as cutting carbs in a apparel thread, or how to change a tire in a bike fit thread, or any other examples I could make up that haven't occured.
From a reader's perspective, this is why I appreciate the various sub headings in the forums. This way I don't have to read about weight loss or a tandem or anthing else if I don't want to. As a reader, I have a certain expectation when I go to a thread's heading. Like many readers, I have a finite amount of time to spend on a web forum, and frankly I feel it's a waste of time to go to a thread and find out the new posts have zero to do with what the header says. Again, I am not talking about topic drift, I am talking about completely unrelated commentary.
If you believe thatwhy bother with subheading/sub forums then?Quote:
the main thrust of the conversation was bike-related and, in our opinion, wholly appropriate to the forum as a whole
I mentioned I moderate a different forum. What we do there is MOVE comments to the appropriate heading if they don't seem to fit. We have several differnet moderators who help out the primary to keep an eye on things.
I'd also like to suggest that members use the ignore function in the software if a particular poster gets under their skin. Or, to take a deep breath and realize that we all have moments when we aren't at our best, or overly sensitive, and to let things go. Life is too short to get all worked up about typewritten comments from someone you don't know.
Respectfully
Irulan
Hi Irulan,
Point well taken. What I meant was that the discussion of a bike theft was pertinent to the TE forums in general. I DO agree that saying on-topic in a given sub-forum is important and that new threads should be started if the subjects stray too far.
Thanks for helping me to clarify my original message!
Susan
I would like to apologize to all of you for my part in this most heated thread. I realize these were not posts most of you wanted to see on this board, and I'm sorry I was not able to stay above the fray and instead contributed to the thread's downward spiral.
Thank you to those who've intervened in an attempt to preserve the peace. I hope to continue learning from all of you who generously share your knowledge and experience. I still think this is a wonderful group of women and I remain impressed with the overall congeniality of the forum.
Again, my apologies,
Christine
heh heh, no problem for me. We all have our moments. Can we blame in on PMS here at TE ( R , D and L)**
Irulan
** running ducking and laughing in net-speak
First of all, I'd like to apologize for not thanking you ladies who gave me advice back when i posted my original message two years ago. I honestly thought i had but i think i sent out an e-mail message...apparently i was more than a little confused...i thought we got all the messages posted on this forum via e-mail if we signed up. I stopped getting messages over a year ago and sort of assumed the forum had died...life was really busy too so i didn't have much time. But I see the forum is alive and well - great! :) Anyway, I am sorry that I did not thank you ladies who gave me advice earlier - it was much appreciated!
a quick update - I ended up buying a 17" Jamis Expert '01 full suspension frame, Manitou X-Vert air '01, and XT build kit with an XTR rear derailleur. Bribed the guys with cookies and the thrill of putting a brand new bike together to put MINE together and give me free mechanics lessons. ;) It has proved to be an excellent bike, although i still think the geometry is a tad off, and i have put a lot of miles on my beautiful blue baby, although it is definitely showing the results of some of my "epic" adventures. (including a 24 hr race) ;) I also just got in May a 54 cm Trek 2000 WSD road bike!! it's great to have both a mtn. bike, when i want to get out and hit the dirt, work on technical stuff, and enjoy the woods, and then a road bike for the speed rush and extra training, or quick transportation. ;) i still can't decide what fitting i like better - the generic or the WSD...i think i like the WSD...it seems to fit better. but of course, they're two different bikes. I did get professionally fit on one of those machines on my road bike AFTER my mom had bought mine. THe guy at the shop insists that i could fit a regular 52 cm frame but i'm not sure what kind of adjustments i'd have to make. The other thing that i'm not happy with is my saddle predicament...i have a Terry Butterfly that works alright on my mtn. bike, but is uncomfortable on my road bike. My 'sensitive tissue' always hurts like heck after about 30 mins on the road...i've tried changing saddle angle, height, and position...nothing works. BUt i also haven't been able to ride much this past year due to a seriously annoying nagging knee injury (due to flipping backwards off my bike on singletrack) that i've been fighting for the past year. It was misdiagnosed several times, finally had an MRI and it looked like i had a torn meniscus. So they did arthroscopic surgery only to find that there is NOTHING structurally wrong with my knee, including my meniscus. I guess this happens to a few other people though and most of them are actually healed after the surgery. something about the trauma of the surgery forces the body to heal whatever is wrong that's not in the structure of the knee, or there could have been adhesions in the knee that were eliminated with the fluid that was washed through my knee during the surgery. so right now i'm in the recovery process while learning the ropes of college life. I will hopefully be purchasing a low-end road bike for college here in the next two weeks and get to ride again soon. Then hopefully i can build back up to my former biking self and surpass that too...if my knee cooperates.
That's my update on me. I also wanted to say, I took no offense to any of the posts here - i thought the one about the bike being stolen was stuck in a rather odd spot, but my post was so old, it did not bother me at all. I'm very sorry to have caused any arguments or hurt feelings between you ladies, and i hope you will all not take any offense for me, or at anyone trying to help me. I thank you, Liz, for your concern and encouragement to compete. If my knee will start cooperating i hope to be able to compete in the lower 48 sometimes - until then i'll just stick with recreational ridess and low key races. :) Again, i hope i didn't cause any trouble. I think it's awesome that a place exists for women bikers and I would hate to see you all become mad at each other. we need to stand together - our numbers are growing! :) thanks so much
Meghan
You, of all people, have no reason to apologize. :)