OMG USADA Lance etc

Personally, I feel after 500 tests with nothing it is a witch hunt. In competition testing as well as out of competition testing, all negative. Offering leniency to admitted dopers in exchange for testimony against lance, doesnt seem like a truth mission. was he doping? maybe. I dont know. NOne of us really do. LA will always be a 7x Tour Winner in my mind. No matter what they decide.

on another note regarding the USADA. Hope Solo tested positive for banned substances 2 weeks before the olympics. The USADA slapped her on the wrist and let her compete. Should Team USA have their gold medals taken away? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

sometimes, I wonder about USADA. I don't like them!

Jurisdiction issues are really big sticking point for me. There is UCI, so why does USADA think it has the authority to tell other sports organization on what to do.

I also am not sure about how clean Lance is but if he managed to not get caught after so many suprise visits by the vampires and all, I have to give him more than reasonable doubt.

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I agree. What good will come of stripping all these titles from the past? If competitors passed the dope tests at the time, they should keep their medals and the sport should move on. All this does is make the Tour results a joke. The anti-doping agencies should concentrate on cleaning up the sport from now on and leave the past in the past.

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

Here are the second place finishers:

1999 Alex Zulle, 2000 Jan Ullrich, 2001 Jan Ullrich, 2002 Joseba Belocki, 2003 Jan Ullrich, 2004 Andreas Kloden, 2005 Ivan Basso.

Ullrich and Basso were both suspended for doping, but I don't know about the other guys. It will be interesting to see how this affects the outcome.

But I'll never think that Lance didn't win.

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Stolen from elsewhere (2nd place finishers):

1999: Alex Zulle, who admitted to taking EPO as part of the Festina affair. On 28 November 1998, Zülle’s haematocrit was found to be 52.3%, 2.3% over the limit.

2000, 2001, 2003: Jan Ullrich was found guilty of a doping offence by the CAS. He was retroactively banned from August 22, 2011, and all results gained since May 2005 were also removed from his Palmares.

2002: Joseba Beloki was among those implicated in Operación Puerto and was withdrawn from the 2006 Tour de France.

2004: Andreas Kloden. In 2009 allegations emerged claiming that Andreas Klöden used the Freiburg University Clinic for an illegal blood transfusion during the 2006 Tour de France.

2005: Ivan Basso. In 2007 he admitted he was planning to use doping and was suspended for two years.

In all sports it seems we, the fans, expect new records every year thus putting immense pressure on the athletes and the teams. Sponsor pressure them to perform, trainers answer with performance enhancing stuff and there we are a vicious cycle. I don't have any answers but in part I think we, the fans, need to say enough is enough and let's see results based on fitness, health and strength.

USADA arbitration court has a pretty skewed record *against* the defending athletes, something like 2 to 50. With pretty much any shred of evidence that holds water against Lance, he'd be most likely taken down as guilty. Had this argument been held in a federal court, like Bonds and Clemens, he'd have a better chance of being acquitted on some technicality.

But instead, by just quitting the whole deal without admitting guilt and without having himself and his foundation dragged through the mud, he can get this:
"But I'll never think that Lance didn't win."
"LA will always be a 7x Tour Winner in my mind. No matter what they decide."
...which is probably a better outcome for him and LiveStrong.

He's had sponsorships and other sources of income, so losing the TdF money is probably not going to hurt much. Even if the official titles are stripped, people will always remember the 7 wins anyway. Regardless of did/didn't, won/lost, whatever, this was probably the least painful of his options at this point.

I'm not so much fascinated in the doping itself as with the fallout that happens afterwards. Landis? Destroyed. Basso? 2 year ban and back like nothing happened. Vinokurov? Serves his ban without admitting guilt, wins gold in the Olympics and is treated like a villain. Vaughters? Comes clean over Twitter and the NYtimes, now held as a hero and hope for the future of cycling. One pattern that seems to be true: if you say for years you didn't do it, then later say you did: THAT seems to piss off the most people. Everyone keeps wanting Lance to "just say it, just say you did it," but everything I've seen says that would be the WORST blow to Lance's image at this point, since he's been the most outspoken about his innocence. He probably knows that.

-- gnat! (who once raced on Claritin-D, there, I said it)

Maybe race organizers could implement a doping control modeled after customs in Mexico. Line up, push a button, sometimes there's a green light and you walk through sometimes there's a red light and your stuff gets searched.

Red light in cycling, the rider could randomly get tossed out of the race, or better yet, spin a big Wheel of Fortune to win anything from a lifetime ban to a slap on the wrist.

;)

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Originally Posted by lovelygamer

I don't agree that him dropping the fight against them, admits guilt. I also don't agree that they should be allowed to ban him for life when he has never been convicted.

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I'll admit when I first heard that he was giving in that it sounded tantamount to an admission of guilt, but then I read his statement and I think it's just the opposite... He may be taking the best route here - rather than trying to fight it out and having to attempt to "explain" things he's just saying enough is, enough and that they've created impossible demands. I have told my story and if you can't accept it, there's no way I can give you more....

It's smart if you ask me - look at the other guys who have tried to fight - ie. Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis. Both of them ended up so desperately trying to explain away things that their stories became so twisted and outlandish that it became believe anything they said and they tripped themselves up, by telling too many fish tales.....

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

Here are the second place finishers:

1999 Alex Zulle, 2000 Jan Ullrich, 2001 Jan Ullrich, 2002 Joseba Belocki, 2003 Jan Ullrich, 2004 Andreas Kloden, 2005 Ivan Basso.

Ullrich and Basso were both suspended for doping, but I don't know about the other guys. It will be interesting to see how this affects the outcome.

But I'll never think that Lance didn't win.

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Zulle was actually arrested and thrown in jail at one point.... (there was some scandal over his treatment - apparently he's *seriously* nearsighted, like almost blind uncorrected and his glasses were taken away) He was involved in the Festina affair and has admitted to doping. Klodi was Ullrich's right hand man for years - guilt by association?

The media's getting all het up here, it's almost all that's been on the news today. I don't know if they are the same over there but they seem to love to take down anyone who achieves. Guilty by media just to sell papers. Personally I don't care if he was taking something, as has already been said it probably made it so he competed on a level playing field. He, like all those that ride the tour are amazing, I couldn't do it, there wouldn't be a substance strong enough to get me up those hills day after day. Perhaps I could build an electric motor into Lisa //*-*\\ Wasn't that one suggestion of how they could climb so well?
I do wonder though why women don't compete in the tours. Or have their own? Could it be we are more sensible? I apologise heartily if there are women tours and tourers, I would have total admiration.

Since they've started stripping TdF winners of their titles, the TdF has really lost its luster for me. It taints every exciting moment and memory I have from following the event. I no longer have any desire to watch TdF because I know a few weeks/months (and now years and years) down the road the USADA will call foul and illegitimatize the entire event. Don't they do enough testing before and during the race? Shouldn't that be enough?

I used to be a fan of TdF. I won't watch it anymore, haven't for the last two years. USADA and the many, many "scandals" have ruined pro cycling for me.

I'll stick to riding my bike, alone, in the wilderness, on some single track. Nothing but me and my bike.

Yet, I still am a fan of Lance. Can't explain it. But I am.

In some ways, I feel like limewave; I haven't stopped watching the Tour, although this year, I saw less of it. But my entry into the cycling world, many happy memories of watching the Tour with DS #2, and Lance's achievements are all sort of connected for me. We discovered the Tour (and Phil and Paul) during one of our last family vacations on Cape Cod. The house we rented had OLN and when DS caught a fleeting glance of the peloton as he was channel flipping, that was it.

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Originally Posted by Dizzie

I do wonder though why women don't compete in the tours. Or have their own? Could it be we are more sensible? I apologise heartily if there are women tours and tourers, I would have total admiration.

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There is women's racing and women's tours (Giro Donna etc.) and women who dope.... it's just that none of it ever makes the media

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

Here are the second place finishers:

1999 Alex Zulle, 2000 Jan Ullrich, 2001 Jan Ullrich, 2002 Joseba Belocki, 2003 Jan Ullrich, 2004 Andreas Kloden, 2005 Ivan Basso.

Ullrich and Basso were both suspended for doping, but I don't know about the other guys. It will be interesting to see how this affects the outcome.

But I'll never think that Lance didn't win.

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I looked on wikipedia, in 2002, I had to all to #30 before I saw a name that ring a bell with me re: a doping scandal. But then, #30 didn't ring a bell to me either. This is like placing a lock on the henhouse door after the fox has eaten your prize hen.:(:(:confused:

How the heck can they strip him of his Tour titles? They don't run the Tour, or even pro cycling. That's up to the UCI, which is based in Europe.

Is the USADA over all US sports? How long have they been aroudn?

Can anyone give a 101 description of the various orgs involved?
USADA? UCI? Are there others?

Sorry, I only really started watching TDF and other cycling events this year and am just not familiar with all the orgs and very confused!