Mumps?!?

Is it not possible to honestly acknowledge the sad realities of life without being called callous?

What if the profits Big Pharma derives from vaccinations against common, normally minor, diseases, were directed instead to improving air quality. How many respiratory illnesses would be prevented and how many deaths would be postponed (deaths cannot be prevented)?

1% of the population or more has inflammatory arthritis. The link with vaccines is well established. This too can be a truly horrible disease.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Is it not possible to honestly acknowledge the sad realities of life without being called callous?

What if the profits Big Pharma derives from vaccinations against common, normally minor, diseases, were directed instead to improving air quality. How many respiratory illnesses would be prevented and how many deaths would be postponed (deaths cannot be prevented)?

1% of the population or more has inflammatory arthritis. The link with vaccines is well established. This too can be a truly horrible disease.

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Correlation ≠ causation. Vaccines sure are a convenient scapegoat for a lot of things and lately seem like the cause de jour for every ill.

And arthritis ≠ death. One is a treatable condition.

The thing with flu shots is that they're always a guess. I don't think they should be mandatory unless you're living/working in close proximity to someone who is in one of those "high risk" groups. Otherwise, if you want it, get it, and if you don't, don't

And it aggravates me to no end, the people who refuse to vaccinate their kids. I think a vaccine for chicken pox is pretty silly, but MMR...

Oak, my mom had a similar inflammatory reaction to the hepatitis (A? B? I don't remember.) vaccine. That's the only one (apart from chicken pox, but I got that the normal way!) I didn't have. Presents a bit of a problem if I want to work with human tissue samples, though.

I've been vaccinated 3 times for MMR. Once as a kid, in my 20's when I worked for a hospital and if you were in a certain age group/vaccinated during certain years there was a possibility that the vaccine was ineffective. And again in my 30's when I was going to work for a hospital, again, and they titered me, only to discover that I didn't have an immunity. Got another round of shots. Wound up not staying with the hospital, or they would have titered me again. There'a a possibility that I still don't have an immunity. But considering I no longer work in emergency medicine, I'm not that worried.

Keep your feverish, rashy children to yourselves please. :(

I have had the flu 3 times that I know of, maybe 4. I was too weak to walk from one end of the house to the other and had a fever of 104, along with the respiratory symptoms, headaches, etc. I don't want to experience that again, personally. It's much worse than a cold. And since I work with kids (teacher), I get a flu vaccine every year.

The 1918 flu pandemic killed between 50-100 million people worldwide in just a few short months. This was about 3% of the world population at the time, and apparently 500 million people, or 27% of the world's population were infected. (stats from wikipedia).

Because of the success of many vaccines, I think that the average person does not have any idea of the devastation caused by the diseases that they prevent. If they had lived through a serious epidemic, they would be much more willing to accept the risks. They also don't realize how quickly some of these disease may spread if the percentage of non-vaccinated individuals rises above a certain point. I suspect it will take a tragic epidemic to get some people to rethink this.

Unlike some disorders, reactive arthritis and other forms of arthritis triggered by infectious agents including vaccines, is a well known phenomenon and the link is well established.

There are a few people on this board with serious inflammatory arthritis. Ask them how "treatable" it is.

IMVHO, from a medical ethics standpoint, indiscriminate vaccination is no different from indiscriminate use of antibiotics. Some lives will be prolonged and others will be shortened. Some lives will be improved and others will be impaired. Public health will be improved in some respects and harmed in others. The line that needs to be drawn is very fuzzy indeed, but I can't agree that no line needs to be drawn.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Is it not possible to honestly acknowledge the sad realities of life without being called callous?

What if the profits Big Pharma derives from vaccinations against common, normally minor, diseases, were directed instead to improving air quality. How many respiratory illnesses would be prevented and how many deaths would be postponed (deaths cannot be prevented)?

1% of the population or more has inflammatory arthritis. The link with vaccines is well established. This too can be a truly horrible disease.

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Flu vaccines are a major life saver. The flu is not a minor disease. Part of the problem is people call various bugs the flu whether or not they know they have the flu.

If you want to redirect resources, how about redirecting the billions people spend on homeopathy, which has been researched to death, has no active ingredients, and does not work.

As far as the connection with arthritis, a link with vaccines is far from well established. From the CDC:

After decades of vaccine use in the U.S., current research shows no definitive evidence proving vaccines cause chronic illness.
According to the Arthritis Foundation, there is no known link between vaccines and fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, or lupus. . .


In a comprehensive 1994 study of adverse events associated with vaccination, the Institute of Medicine reviewed the possibility of a link between diphtheria and tetanus vaccines--these vaccines are generally given in combination--and arthritis. The Institute found that it is biologically possible for these immunizations to be associated with arthritis, primarily because the tetanus toxoid has the potential to induce serum sickness, which is a source of a temporary form of arthritis. However, the Institute also found that the evidence available in scientific studies up to 1994 was inadequate to determine whether this biologically possible link actually occurs. Since those findings were reported, one group of researchers found a link between rubella vaccine and temporary, acute arthritis, arthralgia (joint pain) or myalgia (muscle pain) when the vaccine was administered within 12 months of giving birth.(2) Another group found no evidence of any increased risk of developing chronic arthritis, arthralgia, or myalgia within the 12 months following vaccination; the women in this study were of childbearing age.(3)

Similarly, the Institute found that a link between hepatitis B vaccine and acute or chronic arthropathy (inflamed, painful joints) also is biologically plausible, but the studies available are inadequate to accept or reject a causal link to vaccination. A link between the disease, hepatitis B, and arthropathy has been proven.

http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/qa.htm#Do%20vaccines%20cause

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PS to the OP - try 1972, not 1952. Way to make the majority of us on this board who've had the mumps and chicken pox - two more diseases that make kids feel pretty sick for a while and that's all - feel old.

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Wasn't trying to make anyone feel old. Seriously, thought that was one that was all but eradicated in the 50s. Never ever heard of anyone actually getting the mumps until this weekend. Almost jumped out of my chair when the doc said it.

Born in '73 here, so not quite the chicken of the springtime, but it's all relative. And I had my chicken pox, oh did I ever. (Very distinct memory of being about 8, sitting in a Brownie meeting, thinking, why am I so itchy? and then thinking Ohhhhhdang. Or whatever kid-like curse I used at the time.) Anyways, sorry for any offense.

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In general, I'm like, vaccinate the &*$& outta me, please. If I don't catch this crap from the kid, I'm going to go redo the MMR next time I hit the doctor, and maybe ask about anything else I should get.

However, I'm on the fence on the flu stuff. Gotten the flu shot a couple of times, gotten really sick. Plus, my mom has Guillane-Barre, which has a relationship with the flu vaccine, and it's got me pretty skeeved. Seriously, you do not want that.

On the other hand, I got the flu at new year's this year, and was laid out for weeks. Sickest I've been in ages. Pretty sure if I had been in some sort of high risk category that would have had serious ramifications. I think that if I end up in one of those high risk categories, I'll roll the dice and get the flu shot.

In other news, my sister is on the mend. :)

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Originally Posted by tangentgirl

In other news, my sister is on the mend. :)

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Yay!! :D

Whoever said that some people call their illness the "flu" very casually, is very correct. Just because you have a cold and a few aches, it's not the flu. I have had the flu once. It had to have been the worst thing I've ever had; worse than pneumonia. It came on suddenly, at work, and by the time I got home, I had a 104 degree fever that lasted for 5 days. DH was out of town and I was depending on a 10 and 8 year old to take care of me! Then, I developed a secondary respiratory infection, bronchitis, possibly pneumonia, and I had to be on antibiotics for 2 weeks. I was sick in March and I didn't stop coughing until May. I couldn't go back to teaching at the gym for 8 weeks.
I got the flu shot in 2009, with all of the hoopla for the swine flu. The only reason I hadn't taken it before, is that I really am allergic to Thimerisol, the preservative that is in the vaccine; it used to be in contact lens solution and I developed a nice allergy to it. My doctor refuses to get the preservative free vaccine, so I usually can find it at CVS Minute Clinic. It's very hard to find.
I guess I should go and get my shot.

I get a flu shot every year. I sometimes still get a very mild case of the flu in late February or early March. Before I started getting the vaccine, I had the flu 3 years in a row and the respiratory symptoms lasted for 3 months each time. Regarding pertussis, my son also had a bad reaction to the first DPT when he was a baby, and in subsequent vaccines received DT only. Freshman year of high school he came down with whooping cough. It took three visits to the doctor before he was diagnosed and received proper medical treatment.