Dog Behavior Question

oh wow, he's GORGEOUS!!

When I had my dog, what bugged me was people assumed he was mean and vicious and would cross the street when we came closer. He was a mellow, 80lb mostly rottie with a docked tail, and it's amazing what a lack of tail does to an image of a dog. One woman even freaked out when the elevator door opened and we tried to get in. She was waving her hands and screaming, and my dog was like "what?"

Anyways, my guy was super gentle with every creature, including babies, but I always kept a very close eye on him, and always had him leashed JUST IN CASE. I remember this one time I had him off leash during a picnic, and he went straight to this toddler with a hotdog - took it right out of her hand!! luckily the child and her parents saw humour in it, but that was the only time I wasn't "careful" around children with him.

It's always good to have him trained enough to control him if he starts playing rough for the child, though. People are weird, and it's in your best interest to protect yourself and your dog should you encounter someone who's letigious-happy.

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Originally Posted by XMcShiftersonX

Perhaps mention to your friend that in addition to going to the dog park a couple times a week... We also take Megatron on a 1 1/2-2 hour walk every morning, an hour walk mid day, and a 1/2 hour walk at night?

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will do, yes.

XMcShftersonX, so why did you ask the question in the first place? You obviously don't want any other answer than your own.

Good luck, and I really hope that there's never an incident, real or perceived, between your dog and a kid. If there is, you WILL be held responsible.

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Originally Posted by XMcShiftersonX

Perhaps mention to your friend that in addition to going to the dog park a couple times a week... We also take Megatron on a 1 1/2-2 hour walk every morning, an hour walk mid day, and a 1/2 hour walk at night?

When we don't take him to the dog park for awhile, it's noticeable that he's even more high energy than usual and gets into things he normally wouldn't. We've socialized him since day one of having him because we were told with big dogs it's important to make sure they're socially well adjusted so they don't have fear-aggression and hurt people and other animals violently.

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I think this is smart. I had a dog that was wonderfully socialized as a young dog because I worked very hard at it. Then I had to leave her with my mom for 3 months while I was sent out of state for work. When I got back, my dog had the beginings of dog-aggression that just escalated. My mom and dad walked her twice daily and played with her in the yard all the time. What they didn't do, was let her anywhere near any other dog. EVER. It was this behavior that taught her that dogs were a threat to the humans in her family/pack. It became a HUGE problem. She wouldn't allow any dog within 100 feet of me without turning into a viscious beast! Luckily, I'm strong and could control her physically...but man, it sucked. I am a FIRM believer that if dogs will be in contact with other dogs (like living in a city) then it is CRITICAL that they have supervised interaction with dogs so that they know how to act. Socialization is very important.

Now, I agree with what Mimi's friend said about people who take their dogs to dog parks and then ignore them while they are on the phone or gabbing with friends. That's not right either, but I certainly don't get that impression from the OP at all.

I also don't like kids and I'm a huge fan of dogs - particularly large ones. I totally want to meet Megatron now! Anyway, I agree that you should work on teaching him not to mouth humans as that's not very hard to do and probably a good idea anyway. I would also make sure that you are always paying attention when at the park (which it sounds like you are already) so that you can give the command to bring Megatron back to you if you see crazy children. We have one dog that won't start fights, but LOVES to insert is defective-hip-rear-end into the middle of them at the dog park. We have to be very viligent so that we can call him off when other dogs start to quibble or he'd get hurt in a hurry. Anyway, lastly, I would do as you suggest and nicely mention to people who's children are running around that it's a dangerous thing to do in a dog park and that while you know your dog is friendly, not all of them are... Frame it as your concern for their kids' safety and it might go over better.

Other than that, you are welcome to bring Megatron to our house to play with the 5 dogs we now regularly have tearing around our property. :D He'd have a blast! Honestly, no more need for dog parks is one of the best parts about living in the country!

(and our dogs are never left outside without supervision, so they are not the scary unleashed country dogs that chase bicyclists!;))

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Originally Posted by XMcShiftersonX

Someone brought up what if a parent has a phobia and sees their kid being mouthed by a 140 pound dog... Well, I would hope someone with a phobia of dogs, even if it's just big dogs, wouldn't be found at the dog park. I definitely do not feel it is my problem in that situation.

Also, there are no signs regarding kids at this dog park that I'm aware of. I'm not going to put my dog on leash at the dog park if I see kids running around, but maybe I'll just be more on top of him if I see that so that he does not actually reach the child, just in case he knocks them over. Before I would just kind of wait to see what was going to happen, because the kid doesn't always get knocked over, usually just scared. I think I'll make it a bigger point to communicate, "look, my dog is a nice dog but it's not smart to run at the dog park," rather than not say anything at all.

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Before I had rescue dogs in Manhattan, I would probably have said something like "do not feel it is my problem." Well -- guess what -- after years walking dogs in crowds, I believe it's ALL my problem. A dog-phobic person in a dog park does not come close to being the stupidest thing I've seen.

I used a Snoot Loop with one dog (similar to the Gentle Leader) and a lot of people think it's a muzzle. One time eight-year-old twins were on their knees kissing my dog when their father turned to me and said "Why do you have a muzzle on him?" I was speechless -- you thought it was a muzzle and your kids are all over my dog all the time?

I think your idea of encouraging kids not to run is a good one. Being proactive with children is something I do all the time. Based on what you've said here, though, I do worry about what might happen. Please keep in mind your gorgeous dog needs you to protect him!

We have a boxer-rottweiler mix (tail also docked), she weighs about 70 lbs. Of course, being a boxer and a rottweiler, she has a solid woof, is very muscular, and she loves to greet people. She has been known to knock some kids over (not intentionally), and alligator-snap in their direction if they poke where she doesn't want to be poked. She is another that won't put teeth on skin.

She knows kids are units to be protected, but isn't quite sure about how to interact with them, especially the smaller ones (the same ones she can knock over). We've used kids of friends as training for her, to teach her that kids are units that she needs to respond to, not just be aware of, and to try to reduce her jealousy of the attention that kids get. She also has a herding instinct that we have to try to turn off - sometimes if we're playing a chase game (like tag) with a kid, she'll start trying to herd the kid, nipping at their heels or clothes (never skin, but I'm sure to a parent it just looks like scary rottweiler/boxer eating my precious child). It doesn't matter how much exercise she gets, something turns it on and you have to be the one to turn it off. I think with a lot more practice, we could work it out and she'd learn that children are not to be herded in that way. :P

I think some kids end up at the dog park because, well, they love dogs. But, dogs are a two way street, and it's important for kids to learn how to deal with dogs as well. Maybe teach your dog to respond to a command that you can also teach the kids, and turn it into a learning exercise (rather than something negative). That would also give you something you could use to call him off if you think it's getting ahead of what the kid can handle. Or, if you can teach him to look to you before he sets off, you can give him the "okay" to run if you're confident (or confirm) the kid can handle it.

I looked up the rules for our dog park and I think they could use a section on human responsibilities, too. There's some general stuff, like "remain in control" and "kids under 16 must have a parent present," but not really enough on "how to be a responsible dog park user."

As an aside, that (loosely) reminds me of a sign at Cat Tales, a wild cat park that says: "Don't Run, You Look Like Food." ;) http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...SEC1UXNu3mmuwA

Good on you for the long walks and staying attentive to him at the dog park, though. I do see a lot of humans doing the "hang around and chat while your dog misbehaves". My dog seems to want to smell everything and follow me more than play, so I haven't actually had to deal with a lot of dog park interaction.

@ Badger - Yes, the problems of people's misconceptions of a large dog or specific breed is a very real problem. I can't count the number of times people have screamed, ran, or said mean things about him because they just assumed a dog that big was mean. He's really quite the opposite as I've said... a big happy-go-lucky goof.

@GLC - If I'm ever in the area or you're ever up here we will definitely have to arrange something. I'm sure Megatron would be happy to meet everyone! We will continue to work on the mouthing issue. He's been attempting to mouth us since we first got him. Each time we tell him no firmly and either stop playing with him and walk away, or give him a toy to chew on rather than our hands, etc. This is what we were told in our obedience classes, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work because it's 15 months since we got him and he's still doing it! Does anyone have any other suggestions?

@Pam - We used to use a gentle leader when we were teaching Megatron not to pull and we had the same situations on a regular basis! I couldn't believe that people thought it was a muzzle. I think it actually heightened the fear people had about him being a mean dog because of his size. I was constantly explaining he's a really nice dog, he doesn't bite, it's so that he doesn't pull me.

@Colby - I LOVE that cat sign!!

@Tulip - I'm curious as to why you think that. I wanted to get an idea of how other people feel about this and what others' expectations are. I am listening to everything people have to say, but I'm also finding a balance between what I believe and what others believe. I don't think living in fear or making decisions over the small chance you may get sued is any way to live. It's something to keep in mind, and I am going to work with my dog on improving his behavior to uphold my responsibility (by working on his mouthing humans and trying to redirect him when there's children running around), but I still hold that there's another side (the children and their parents) that need to behave appropriately as well.

First off...I love your big boy. I have a friend with one and dealing with a small horse on a leash can be a big issue. If I were you, I would remove the prey drive he has for chasing kids. This behavior is a hunting instinct and small kids in his mind are prey. I work with a police K9 and we often have this problem with green dogs and kids in the terminal of the airport. He doesn't have the kill instinct in him, but mouthing is the same behavior. Take him to the park and "set him up" with kids running. Kept on a leash at your side and keep him from chasing kids. He has got to learn that chasing anything is not okay. If kids want to come and pet him, let them, and praise him for siting calmly and not chasing. Unfortunately you have a small horse and even if you think he is "playing" he could hurt someone and I guarantee you any court will find in favor of the child and against the dog owner. Keep yourself safe from liability. He needs some basic obedience. Even if you take him on a flexie, the dog park can be used for basic obedience and the jumps and tunnels can be used for exercise. Find a few obedience classes in your area. He sounds cool!

XMcShiftersonX, I had an inkling you were talking about Marymoor from your initial description!

It is super-popular with families and I think that will be hard to change. It sounds like you have the right idea with being proactive about Megatron's behavior if a free-range child comes into view.

I also feel that when you are in the off-leash area, it's completely appropriate to coach people how to interact with your dog, if they indicate that they want to. The park is well-signed so presumably they know they are going to encounter dogs off-leash! Especially if they are also bringing their own dog.

In my dog Gordy's case, I tell people he can be a bit shy and nervous around new people, so they should just let him sniff their hand and then scratch him under the chin if he comes to them. If I have treats handy, I will show them how to ask him to sit and then reward him with a treat.

Maybe for Megatron, something like "he doesn't know his own size . . . " to break the ice, followed by how you would like people to interact with him for a positive encounter.

It's too bad we don't live in Seattle anymore, because Gordy gets along with larger dogs really well. I bet they'd get along really well!

I would also recommend checking out other dog parks in the area. You might find one that doesn't have so many kids running around, and you would still be able to get that interaction with other dogs that is important.

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Originally Posted by XMcShiftersonX

We will continue to work on the mouthing issue. He's been attempting to mouth us since we first got him. Each time we tell him no firmly and either stop playing with him and walk away, or give him a toy to chew on rather than our hands, etc. This is what we were told in our obedience classes, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work because it's 15 months since we got him and he's still doing it! Does anyone have any other suggestions?

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You're on the right track, but it takes as long to un-do a bad habit as it did to learn it. E.g., the longer he's been doing it, the longer it will take to break. I definitely second Pam's suggestion to read 'The Culture Clash", and I also recommend Ian Dunbar's books.

Be patient, be consistent (this goes for everyone who routinely interacts with him), and be willing to seek help from a professional trainer.

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Originally Posted by Becky

You're on the right track, but it takes as long to un-do a bad habit as it did to learn it. E.g., the longer he's been doing it, the longer it will take to break. I definitely second Pam's suggestion to read 'The Culture Clash", and I also recommend Ian Dunbar's books.

Be patient, be consistent (this goes for everyone who routinely interacts with him), and be willing to seek help from a professional trainer.

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Yes! Those books sounded interesting when the first person mentioned them, I'm going to have to look into them.

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Originally Posted by XMcShiftersonX

I don't think living in fear or making decisions over the small chance you may get sued is any way to live.

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Not to offend, but instead of thinking about your pocketbook, what about the child who doesn't know any better who gets knocked over and breaks an arm, or god-forbid, sustains a head injury. Far-fetched, but a possibility.

I would find another park if I couldn't keep my dog from this behavior.

I'm a big dog owner and a mom,and I don't care where I'm at dogpark or anywhere else its up to me to control my dog. I've never allowed my dog to knock over,jump on or mouth anyone let alone a child. I was mauled at 4 years old and I would never want anyone to have an experience like that. I know you say your dog is great but id be upset if he came after my child. My dog weighs somewhere around 110lbs and we childproofed him at a young age,then again before my daughter was born he's a lab mix so puppy dumb lasted about 5 years. I've also gone out of my way to spend just as much time training my daughter to act properly,be respectful and always ask and thank before we pet dogs. You can't control someone elses children but you have to control your dogchild. One author we rread to get ideas for childproofing our dog was Brian Kilcommon (I think that's how you spell it) good luck

No brainer really! If you love your dog and want him to live a long and happy life, keep him away from any danger of being accused of hurting anybody or any other animal. No matter where you are - even in your own home.

I have a cute little West Highland terrier - read "Kid Magnet", and I put myself in between her and them each time they approach. She's never ever done anything to anybody, however you can never trust that a child won't poke her in the eye or do some other thing that could provoke retaliation in self defense. Even a warning non-contact "snap" could be perceived as "vicious". I would much rather take precautions than to have my very pampered, and loved pet, put down just because some idiot parent won't teach their child how to behave near animals.

So, if you love Megatron, be his best friend and protector. Leash him if kids are running nearby. Frustrating and unfair when at a dog designated park, I know, but better safe than sorry. Injury to a human = dead dog. Simple.

Tamar Gellar's "The Loved Dog" (DVD and/or book) is fantastic for training your pooch. Positive reinforcement. Her methods have worked w/our golden retriever Divas! No offense intended but I think Cesar Milan is a big meanie.

Megatron is a gorgeous boy!

We don't take our dogs to dog parks, even though there are plenty of them in my county. Too many irresponsible owners. Haven't heard about issues w/free range children, though.