A bit of a rant

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I agree with 7rider. Spreading out also means the driver has to be held up multiple times and make multiple passes, and gets progressively more frustrated with each one.

It's even more annoying for a cyclist to pull off than it is for a driver to do it... but just as a polite cager will pull off to allow a moto to pass on a road with short sight lines, polite cyclists should pull off when a cage is stuck behind us for a long time. Heck, it's the law in some states that you have to pull off if you're traveling below the speed limit in any vehicle and there are more than five cars behind you.

And as much as it annoys me (and as little as I'm likely to do it in real life except as a passive-aggressive type of road rage complete with exaggerated mime of frustration), I think that includes times when the cager HAS plenty of safe passing opportunities but refuses to take them. I live in terror of being rear-ended (no matter what type of vehicle I'm in or on), because it's the one type of wreck that I have the least control over - and when someone's tailgating me for long stretches and refusing to pass, if I'm by myself, I will do that just to get them out from behind me.

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The rule we teach in this case is to "leave room for cars." The idea is to have a number of clusters of 12 to 20 riders, separated by a couple hundred yards of road space. Yes, drivers have to make multiple passes, but it's a lot easier for them, and safer, than trying to pass something like the peleton of the Tour de France... very much like trying to pass a freight train on a narrow 2-land road.

It's also better to keep the groups together, in a pack, rather than having single riders or little groups of two and three scattered up and down the roadway 10 or 20 yards apart, leaving no real safe space to try and pass. That's what gets drivers jacked up more than anything other than filling the whole roadway like a swarm of bees. The advantage that we riders get from that is that the larger groups are more visible to others than the single riders putting along.

Riding no more than double file is the law in most states. Arkansas is one of those that doesn't address riding abreast, thus single file is technically the law here. You can generally get by with riding 2 abreast, though.

I've taught the LAB Group Riding Skills clinic for about three years now, and it's amazing how 30 to 50-year-old cyclists have trouble with simple arithmetic and counting... as witnessed by how many times I've had to pull the class over to the side of the road for a quick Teachable Moment that starts with the question, "Okay guys... Some one please tell me, how many is Two?"

;->

Tom
LCI-1853M

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Originally Posted by PscyclePath

The idea is to have a number of clusters of 12 to 20 riders, separated by a couple hundred yards of road space.

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Okay, I think that's the part that got elided originally.

I almost NEVER ride in a group of more than 15. The strategy of "multiple clumps" makes sense for big organized tours like RAGBRAI or TOSRV, or for these ginormous club rides they have in some places. Not so much in our more rural club rides or flash mobs.

I think what I and the others were picturing from the original post was "two riders," [pass] "three riders," [wait for another passing opportunity] "two riders," [pass again] and so forth.

I TOTALLY agree that 3,500 riders in a line 40 miles long, like they get on TOSRV, makes no one happy.


ETA: whoops, I re-read Mr.S's post, and he did say one or two riders together. I stand by what I said, don't think that's safe or wise.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Okay, I think that's the part that got elided originally.

I almost NEVER ride in a group of more than 15. The strategy of "multiple clumps" makes sense for big organized tours like RAGBRAI or TOSRV, or for these ginormous club rides they have in some places. Not so much in our more rural club rides or flash mobs.

I think what I and the others were picturing from the original post was "two riders," [pass] "three riders," [wait for another passing opportunity] "two riders," [pass again] and so forth.

I TOTALLY agree that 3,500 riders in a line 40 miles long, like they get on TOSRV, makes no one happy.

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Yep... we're on the same page now. My local club seems to have the same attitude, where a "group ride" is out little pack of a dozen or two folks out along the same three or four mile stretch of road, devil take the hindmost ;-)

Sometimes makes me wonder why they're called "group rides"...

I ride Critical Mass in my city and even when we have a large group we ride in groups of two, side by side - in one lane. We use hand signals. Shout our intent too, if the group is large enough. I'm in my 30's - and so are alot of my regular Crit. Mass buddies. Most cars are annoyed no matter how well we follow traffic rules - and honk - flip the bird - or shout other offensive things. It's frustrating, but we never respond. Act normal, and try to maintain formation. We do our best. :)

Wow, this has taken a life of its own. The group that I originally wrote about wasn't even in a line. They were clumped up and riding aimlessly back and forth around the stop sign at a somewhat dangerous (poor sight lines) and busy intersection. Picture a narrow country road that has houses, lots of curves, and a hill. The intersection is at the top of the hill, a bit after the crest. It would have been easier to try and pass a whole long line of riders than to figure out what these guys were doing.
Strangley, I got an email from my group this morning, stating they have been working on a policy that covers a lot of the issues discussed here. I gave my comments in an email and now I wonder if they will use my name :eek:.

but part of the gettiing them to pass you if you are riding in a group is the responsibility of the last person in the group to look well ahead up the road and if possible, signal if when it is safe for the car to pull out and pass.It's equally rude to leave the auto hanging out behind you with no indication of whether the group is slowing, or if it is possibly safe to pull out. If the car is signaled that it is safe, and they start to pull out and then drop back, there should be no exasperation or anger since the bikers know nothing of the skills or abilities of the driver or the pick up of the car. It is also important to remember that although the car may be faster, it is not as maneuverable as a bike and as a biker you need to make sure that there is a whole lot of room.

marni

You know what annoys me? The word cager.

Karen

Cyclists like those you describe irritate me too. Last year DH and I were out riding, and had a couple of cyclists blow through a 4 way stop about 1/2 mile ahead of us cutting off a car that was turning. They then proceeded to ride down the center of the road (2 lane).

I was so pissed, I took off after the cyclists. I planned to tell them how bad their behavior makes it on the rest of us. When I finally caught them at a light I was so winded I couldn't say anything! :D

DH and I still laugh about that.

They took off and that was that. I try to do what Knotted Yet does, be a goodwill ambassador on a bike. A couple of years ago I read an article in Bicycling by Bill Strickland that convinced me that's the best way to ride. Not always easy but smart.

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

You know what annoys me? The word cager.

Karen

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I'm not familiar with the term...what does it mean?

OK, I looked it up...I'll introduce a new term for those of us who commute with the top down -

hottubber.

I'll assure you that with the top down and the wind in my hair, I'm in anything but a cage!;) :DBwahahahahah!:D

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Originally Posted by marni

but part of the gettiing them to pass you if you are riding in a group is the responsibility of the last person in the group to look well ahead up the road and if possible, signal if when it is safe for the car to pull out and pass.It's equally rude to leave the auto hanging out behind you with no indication of whether the group is slowing, or if it is possibly safe to pull out.

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I'm not going to assume the liability of waving a driver around. One of things I was taught in defensive driving is that you can be held liable if you wave another motorist through and an accident ensues (at least in my state). Any legal eagle types know if this is accurate elsewhere?

I do signals to cars behind me when there is oncoming traffic and they should hold back. Most of them seem very appreciative.

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

You know what annoys me? The word cager.

Karen

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I'm not a fan either. As much as it's true that being in the car sometimes does feel like being in a cage, the term seems to encourage an "us vs. them" mentality rather than respectfully SHARING the road with one another.

Crankin' - I know that exact intersection (very well). This winter, I had the same experience you described, but I was ON MY BIKE! And guess what? They still didn't move - spread across the entire intersection, and I had to go into the opposite lane to make my right hand turn around them.

BTW - I hope there weren't any NEBC jerseys in that group ;).

SheFly

No NEBC jerseys or CRW... and I was glad of that.
They were green and blue jerseys, with some black. Not sure which club this is; Metrowest Bike Club?