bicycles banned in Colorado?

I actually live along the route that is the center of this dispute. It is the Deer Creek Canyon/High Grade/City View Dr./S. Turkey Creek route. I live on City View Drive.

I agree with much of what Kathi has written. There are some cyclists who's behaviors are aggravating the problem. There are some residents whose reactions to these behaviors and cyclists on the road seem extreme.

The solution that might satisfy both sides would be expensive and that is widening the road for a cyclist lane. Even that, I am not sure that it would completely calm tempers.

I have friends that live along Deer Creek Canyon and they were telling me that some of their neighbors are so livid over the cyclists that they fear that some day violence will break out.

-Sue

Haha! I love it when they put "share the road signs" up on some narrow, no-shoulder, high-speed, busy road--like that makes it OK!

I like it even better when the "share the road" signs have been run over by cars... :rolleyes::eek:

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Originally Posted by canonsue

I have friends that live along Deer Creek Canyon and they were telling me that some of their neighbors are so livid over the cyclists that they fear that some day violence will break out.

-Sue

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The really crazy thing is that it is over a little bit of slowing down.... It's very odd, but sometimes otherwise reasonable, rational people become raging, thoughtless monsters when they get behind the wheel of a car.... I think it may have been Bob Moiske (the guy who writes the legal column in Bicycling) that talked about how the car in American society is a symbol of personal freedom - you can go where ever you want, but often the reality is that you are sitting in traffic and rushing from obligation to obligation. It's not freedom at all...... When the reality doesn't fit the dream people become irrational and angry.

I do more of my riding in the city, but experience some of the same craziness in the here (with even less purpose as there is always an opportunity to pass within 30 seconds or less) - people who get soooooo mad if they can't get around you (or must *gasp*, turn their steering wheel a little) to get to the next red light quicker. Not that they don't fume and grumble if they get caught behind a bus or if someone wants to make a left hand turn, or someone wants to cross the street, but the problem is that cyclists are vulnerable and for some reason it is socially acceptable to blame everything on us and to threaten us. You probably wouldn't find anyone willing to try to side swipe a city bus (or on a country road a motorhome) to teach it a lesson... nor would it be particularly acceptable to rev ones engine at little Billy and Suzie in the crosswalk, but many motorists are perfectly fine with doing pretty dangerous and despicable things around cyclists. It's like the playground - the bigger kids think its just fine to bully the small ones and most people turn a blind eye.

I just get tired of it. Speed limits are just that, upper limits, not the slowest one is allowed to travel. Non motorized transportation has just as much right to use the roads as cars do (and yes even if you don't own a car your taxes still pay for the roads - in WA state at least, it is property tax that pays for most of the local roads, so you can be car free and you are still paying your fair share - in fact with the damage cars do to roads those who choose to not use them are subsidizing those who do...). No one has the right to endanger another person, just because their presence means you have to slow down for a little while.

Great POST EDEN! you ought to send it to a newspaper!

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Originally Posted by Eden

The really crazy thing is that it is over a little bit of slowing down.... It's very odd, but sometimes otherwise reasonable, rational people become raging, thoughtless monsters when they get behind the wheel of a car.... I think it may have been Bob Moiske (the guy who writes the legal column in Bicycling) that talked about how the car in American society is a symbol of personal freedom - you can go where ever you want, but often the reality is that you are sitting in traffic and rushing from obligation to obligation. It's not freedom at all...... When the reality doesn't fit the dream people become irrational and angry.

I do more of my riding in the city, but experience some of the same craziness in the here (with even less purpose as there is always an opportunity to pass within 30 seconds or less) - people who get soooooo mad if they can't get around you (or must *gasp*, turn their steering wheel a little) to get to the next red light quicker. Not that they don't fume and grumble if they get caught behind a bus or if someone wants to make a left hand turn, or someone wants to cross the street, but the problem is that cyclists are vulnerable and for some reason it is socially acceptable to blame everything on us and to threaten us. You probably wouldn't find anyone willing to try to side swipe a city bus (or on a country road a motorhome) to teach it a lesson... nor would it be particularly acceptable to rev ones engine at little Billy and Suzie in the crosswalk, but many motorists are perfectly fine with doing pretty dangerous and despicable things around cyclists. It's like the playground - the bigger kids think its just fine to bully the small ones and most people turn a blind eye.

I just get tired of it. Speed limits are just that, upper limits, not the slowest one is allowed to travel. Non motorized transportation has just as much right to use the roads as cars do (and yes even if you don't own a car your taxes still pay for the roads - in WA state at least, it is property tax that pays for most of the local roads, so you can be car free and you are still paying your fair share - in fact with the damage cars do to roads those who choose to not use them are subsidizing those who do...). No one has the right to endanger another person, just because their presence means you have to slow down for a little while.

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I lived in Co for 7 years - just moved away a few months ago. When I lived there, I drove into town (lived 37mi out of town in the mtns) and went on road rides with friends in town. I have seen both sides of the coin, and agree with others here that a) there is heated conflict in Co between bikes and cars, b) some in cars forget that those riding bikes are humans - they seem to confuse them with targets or something, c) some bicyclists after being abused by those in cars a number of times are becoming aggressive and 'clogging' roads on purpose. I have seen my friends do it.

It seems to me this is a classic example of a lack of communication. If we could all somehow sit down together and explain that it's just not safe to zip past a cyclist in a small passing zone (thus explaining the finger gestures in the general direction of said motorist), and that it's not polite to hold up traffic if it is possible to ride single file, perhaps we could all get along. Having said that, there will always be jerks on both sides. I see the situation getting worse, and short of some sort of outreach program (and let's face it, those rarely work), we cyclists will have to set an example by being overly polite, and when we drive, we can set an example by giving bicycles plenty of space and passing only when it is safe. Perhaps a letter writing campaign to local news papers? :confused:

Eden makes perfect sense to me.

The problem we are facing in our society is that we are getting polarized over everything. Read The big sort It was ranked #1 on amazon a while ago.

So with that as a background, we will see more and more of these kind of discourse. We have become a nation of intolerance.

Those who bike (us) vs those who do not bike (them)
Those who believe in global warming vs those who think its liberal crock
Those who believe in complete market freedom (Ayn Rand believers) and those who believe in government oversight...

Some think Democrats are un-American some think Republicans are the new fascists and so on. US legislature is frozen in this polarized climate and can only agree to squabble over really stupid things like is Pres. Obama an American Citizen or not (birthers)? This over looming healthcare, over looming national debt and fiscal crisis, JOBS...

So the bike issues they-do or they-don't belong on the road debate will get more heated unfortunately like everything else with zero chance of agreement or compromises.

Well said Eden. I learned to drive in SW Ohio in a very rural area near the Indiana border. We used to joke that our high school was in the middle of a corn field. The roads were 2 lane and narrow with lots of farm equipment. We were taught to be patient (hard for a 16 yro even in the 60's) and that you could pass when it was safe. If there was no passing zone you just stayed behind them until there was one or they pulled off. Even our school bus had to follow slowly behind them! We used to walk and ride our bicycles on them. In that same area there are now conflicts with motorists and bicyclists.

We toured Wisconsin, Minn. and Iowa in June. I felt the same principles that I grew up with applied with the motorists. Every driver gave us space and slowed down until it was safe to pass. Granted, the young guys in their big ford trucks had to rev the engines and make a lot of noise when they passed but they passed safely.

Many of areas in the Midwest have Amish who travel by horse and buggy. A motorist wouldn't dare hit them with a car yet their mode of transportation isn't much different than bicycles they're just bigger and slower than bicycles.

One of the reasons I don't ride Deer Creek Canyon is because even when I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing I get treated poorly by the motorists. In my neighborhood here in Denver the majority of the drivers are very courteous. IMHO, bike lanes and paths have done a lot to facilitate this.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

Eden makes perfect sense to me.

The problem we are facing in our society is that we are getting polarized over everything. Read The big sort It was ranked #1 on amazon a while ago.

So with that as a background, we will see more and more of these kind of discourse. We have become a nation of intolerance.

Those who bike (us) vs those who do not bike (them)
Those who believe in global warming vs those who think its liberal crock
Those who believe in complete market freedom (Ayn Rand believers) and those who believe in government oversight...

Some think Democrats are un-American some think Republicans are the new fascists and so on. US legislature is frozen in this polarized climate and can only agree to squabble over really stupid things like is Pres. Obama an American Citizen or not (birthers)? This over looming healthcare, over looming national debt and fiscal crisis, JOBS...

So the bike issues they-do or they-don't belong on the road debate will get more heated unfortunately like everything else with zero chance of agreement or compromises.

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Thank you for explaining what is happening in this country. Just last night my SO, who doesn't discuss politics much, commented on how petty things are becoming even to the point that the govt health care plan has provisions to euthanize its older citizens!:eek:

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Originally Posted by Kathi

Thank you for explaining what is happening in this country. Just last night my SO, who doesn't discuss politics much, commented on how petty things are becoming even to the point that the govt health care plan has provisions to euthanize its older citizens!:eek:

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You'll have to show me where you got that information. part of what fans the flames is outright falsehoods disseminated by popular TV shows.

Right here. It's not just the TV show hosts who are disseminating that rumor.

http://factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/

But now I understand why my 93-year-old TV-watching FIL refuses to sign any advance care directives... even after watching his brother suffer horribly long after hope of survival was gone...

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I like it even better when the "share the road" signs have been run over by cars... :rolleyes::eek:

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Then there's another take on "share the road": http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2457/...e9c2f5b0_b.jpg

Andrea, if you want to ride your bike through Shelby Farms on Walnut Grove, how do you get through the part where bikes are banned?

It's Union Ave. that changes directions, Mr. I think Andrea was talking about Shelby Farms. Not that I would ride my bike on Walnut Grove. :eek: Or Union Ave. Or anywhere there are Memphis drivers, for that matter. :eek: :)

Karen

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Right here. It's not just the TV show hosts who are disseminating that rumor.

http://factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/

But now I understand why my 93-year-old TV-watching FIL refuses to sign any advance care directives... even after watching his brother suffer horribly long after hope of survival was gone...

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Oak, this doesn't make any sense to me. Are you saying your link backs up the idea that euthanasia is part of Obama's health care plan? Because that's not what the link says at all.

Karen

No!!! It's rebutting that rumor, and identifying some of the sources where the rumor came from.