Not saying anything about what the cop did but I'm more of a Critical Manners style rider myself
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGB6P8R1U1.DTL
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Not saying anything about what the cop did but I'm more of a Critical Manners style rider myself
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGB6P8R1U1.DTL
I just read the report and it seems kinda bizarre given the video. Makes it sound like he was a solitary cyclist weaving back & forth and that the cyclist purposefully rammed the cop. Looked like he was trying to avoid the cop to me.
Apparently, the cyclist is an Army vet, so he'll have that going for him vs. being just a random punk-*** kid living off mommy & daddy.
BikeSnob has a good take on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
good luck. it's a legal system, not a justice system.
Just to play devil's advocate.... The videos making the rounds don't have any sound. We don't know if the victim was in fact taunting the police officer, daring the "pig" to get in his way, or even if he might have been voicing obscenities towards the police. We are quick to assume the victim is innocent I don't think any of us was actually there and we just don't know.
On the other hand, these Critical Mass Rides probably don't do anything to further the cause of responsible cyclists either.
I've gotten so that I'd rather not do club rides because even in a supposedly well behaved group, there are always one or two idiots who persist in riding all over the road, or fail to fall into single file when "car back" is announced.
A large charity ride with several thousand riders is a little different though many of those participants will still exhibit poor cycling behavior. But with several thousand riders, the motorists will just have to learn to relax and deal with it. I hope they will use the extra time to contemplate the benefits of cycling and wonder why they are in their cars when they too could possibly be on the bike instead.
Dream on.
Well after viewing the video at speed and at slo mo, and reading officer Pogans account, I would have to say that Officer Pogan's police statement clearly falsified all accounts of the event.
To knowingly give or make false statements is aggregious to say the least; but police are held to a higher standard than the public at large, and that the officers are very well aware of the consequences regarding this matter (to knowingly make false statements), I would hope that the DA will file a charges against Mr. Pogan for falsifying police record. This in itself is in violation not to mention is a serious breach of public trust and it must be dealt with accordingly. (NYPD for the longest of time have had image and trust problem with the public.)
Officer Pogan through his action has demonstrated that he himself is willing to work outside the legal bounds: The police report he filed contains three factually and grossly incorrect information. The video, no matter how one wish to look at it or try to interpret it, can not, in anyway, support Officer Pogan's stated sequence of events. If anything it totally contradicts the statements made by Officer Pogan's police report.
Had there not been a video evidence, Mr. Long could have been convicted wrongly for thrid degree assult on a police officer. Mr. Long's civil rights would have been violated. Officer Pogan's willingness to falsify police report with full knowledge that "defendent", victim of police brutality, would possibly go to jail. His willful misconduct on the street and subsequent action shows a clear disregard to civil rights and laws protecting individual rights. A far more serious crime than just filing a false police report.
He should not only be fired, but officer Pogan himself needs to spend some time in jail for civil rights violation.
two other points of observation: first is the temptation for officers to knowingly file a false police report. "the end justify the means". Sometimes this temptation is so great that, it happens. I just do not see any sense of "ends justify the means". and this leads to why would officer Pogan willing to become an assailant albeit in uniform.
Second point is did Officer Pogan wanted to show his fellow officer of his no non-sense approach to police enforcement, to show his father, grand father and his superiors that he is just as capable as them by hauling in an assailant who had wantonly assulted a police officer. That would look really good on his record. On his first month on the force... Looks really good.
I just hope that the lawsuit brought forth by Mr. Long's lawyer will force some change in police perception of cyclists as bunch of "liberal hooligans who need to be taught a lesson."
I will support a good cop. But a bad cop, depending on their transgression should be fired or even be jailed. There just is no excuse for knowingly breaking the law.
The video I have seen does have sound. All I can hear is a few people going "whoohooo" in the background somewhere. There is nothing to suggest that the man knocked down did anything more than participate in CM to provoke the officer's aggression. He was just in the wrong place when the officer decided that one of those hooligans needed a lesson. I'm really not willing to reserve judgement when it appears so very clear that the officer outright lied about what happened.
Point being missed here is that police can not act with physical force from verbal taunts or jestures deemed offensive. Flipping the bird/one finger salute or for brits, its the two fingers forfinger and the middle finger (of historical significance toward the French army).
Now if one were to approach an officer and start to scream at the officer in the face... A grey area.
Or if you were to raise your hand and ready to make a physical contact with the officer, then its all's fair on the part of the police.
I'm just suprised that the 22 or was he a 23 year old even managed to get on the force. You would think he would have been rejected on psyche profile. Wrong temperment...
If a cop doesn't have the self-restraint to refrain from attempting to cause serious physical injury to someone who's taunting him, or who's a member of a group that engages in rude behavior, they shouldn't have a badge (and especially a gun).Quote:
Originally Posted by withm
If a private citizen physically assaults someone who's taunting them, that's a crime, that's not self-defense. Even more so when it's someone who's paid to use self-restraint.
By logical implication, you're saying that there is NO justice in the system. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. No one said it's perfect, but it's considerably better than the anarchy tactics of Critical Mass.Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkBike
Neither are all police perfect...they are human too! But, I'm confident that there is a system that sorts this out... demonstrations like this simply place more strain on the system.
Martina, that's a fair statement. But, there's a reason that I haven't been to NYC since 1987...everything is difficult there - getting a taxi, walking, the subway, expenses, crime, getting a quiet nights sleep...People choose to live there, I don't even choose to go there.Quote:
Originally Posted by martinkap
Thanks for posting that! that deserves a topic of it's own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Where can I sign up for a local critical manners ride!
Wow thats not nice at all, police officers can be so mean!And he got charged with assultt. just sickening!
HA! That about sums up the difference between the East and West coasts!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TsPoet
Hey Mr. Silver, c'mon back! The city is EXTREMELY different than it was in 1987. Much cleaner, safer, all around nicer. Of course you don't *have to*, but don't judge NYC by the 1987 version. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Silver
I absolutely believe you;) We have talked about it...perhaps my point relating to the inherent difficulty of density was lost in my reach back to 1987.Quote:
Originally Posted by rij73
If we come, will you take us riding (the Critical Manners way)?