I didn't even realize I was doing this until I read this thread. Now, I'm constantly aware of it. :cool: Thanks for sharing this tip!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.
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I didn't even realize I was doing this until I read this thread. Now, I'm constantly aware of it. :cool: Thanks for sharing this tip!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.
Today I rode and as I rode I murmurred, over and over again...:
Ankles down
ankles down
ankles down
Nice straight back.
I probably sounded a little creepy to anyone who happened to be up at that ungodly hour.
Interesting thread. Is this a [relatively] new technique for clipless pedals/pedalling v.s. toeclips? Or maybe just new thinking?
I remember in the 70's we were all trained to ride toes-down. We used toeclips and old-school cleats, but the technique was definitely toes-down about 30 degrees. Pedalling with the feet flat was snickered at, now it seems to be the opposite.
I can't remember the rationale for riding toes-down; something about muscle/spinning efficiency...or something. I still ride that way now. I must look like a total gomer, but it's a hard thing to change after 30+ years.
OK, I guess I'm exposing my ignorance here (eek!) but why does pedaling with your heel up or down make a difference?
If you try cycling on a computrainer which displays your power at every moment of your pedal stroke, you can see the difference in power output between different pedalling techniques. The following is NOT what you want to achieve. By pedalling properly, as if you were slipping your feet into slippers (on top) and scraping chewing gum off the sole of your shoe (at the bottom) you'd achieve a perfect or nearly perfect circle, with equal power at all times. If you stand up and mash the pedals, you'll get a perfect... peanut. :)
As shellyj commented it is a tad uncomfortable when you first start correcting yourself, especially if you have a stretching issue in the calf. And there is nothing really wrong with riding this way, you just aren't getting the most out of your energy.
The other thing to try if you are using clipless pedals is to feel yourself actually pull up on the pedal. If you are riding with toes down you will be pushing more than pulling on the pedal.
kfergos- It is all about efficient use of the energy you need to pedal. Hopefully someone will give a much more technical explaination, but the essential part is you use less energy pedaling with you heel down.
I don't have clipless pedals, but I tightened up on the clips and worked it to the same effect.
It really does "feel" more powerful.
I can feel a big difference when I correct myself. When I get really tired, I'm usually way up on my toes and it actually relieves my legs a little when I notice and make the change.
indigoiis- I also talk to myself when I ride. Sometimes it's mantras to remind myself of technique, other times I curse the stupid hill for being so long, steep, etc. Sometimes, I just make up stupid songs to try to distract myself from how hard I'm working. I've been caught by people passing me a couple of times. Talk about embarassing!!
New mantra: scrape the gum, slipping into slippers. Now if only I could get coordinated enough to do each at the same time. Sounds like a pat your head and rub your tummy type action. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Correction, No such thing as pedaling circles.
Riding with your heels down is incorrect for most people except that it worked for Greg LeMond. It is dead mass below the axis of rotation.
You want to maximize the downward force component (ie impulse) between the 2 and 7 o'clock position of pedal stroke.
Their is a paper by Ed Coyle et. al., that showed that when subjects were matched for physiological attributes (ie vo2 max) that the difference between the state level cyclists and the national class riders were that the national level cycles, had a greater impulse in the downward potion of the pedal stroke. The better cyclists didn't drop the heels or 'pedaled' circles.
Kayla
I got the heels down lecture today, too, when picking up my new ride. When I rode horses, I heard the same thing. Glad to know it is not just me! I will prob spend some time on the trainer and on some easy rides trying to ingrain this in my muscle memory. Thanks for the thread- lots of good tips here.
Think about pushing down with the ball of your foot, ie concentrating all your force (or pressure) through the ball of your foot on the downstroke, then release the pressure, and snapping the heel up on the upstroke between 7 and 12 noon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama
Think about the biomechanics of the pedal stroke. Think about more force into the pedals.
without stirring up the pot, the optimal pedal stroke (from an energy efficiency and power output pov) is neither toe down nor heel down. there is a slight ankling movement that happens throughout the pedal stroke. however, I understand that most of you are referring to an extreme toe down technique (what I refer to as bike ballet).
toe pedalling engages the smaller muscles in your lower leg as opposed to the larger muscles in your upper leg (and smaller = less force produced). in addition, and extreme toe-down technique will place stress on your achilles tendon which can lead to an over-use injury.
one of the most common reasons I see cyclists toe pedalling is that their saddle position is too high, causing them to over-reach at the bottom of their pedal stroke.
yes, it can take some time to develop the most efficient pedal stroke, but it's time well-invested in the long-run.
hope this helps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by indigoiis
I don't know how you are getting out of the pedals! Of course I fell as many times with toe clips as clipless pedals, so I am obvoiusly not very good at getting out of them!
I keep thinking of more things on this topic... The fitter that pointed out that I was pedaling toe down said it should feeling like a wave motion. Of course Kayla Marie gave a very insightful explaination of what I was trying to say!
If you ever have a dog that chases you while riding in the country (I had 2 German Shepards take out after me last week:eek: ), you will learn very quickly not to ride on your toes. You will also learn that no matter how tired you think you are, you can go into a full standing sprint for quite awhile. At least until the dog gives up the chase.