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LOL, I just re-looked at your recommendation to aim for 80-85%...I am so out of shape that I am still in that range often for my climbing miles...miles on end! On my mountain road, I have been letting myself stop every 15-20 minutes to let my HR drop for a couple minutes before resuming. So, I think I have been doing these! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bikegirlnhawaii
Starfish - I live virtually at sea level (about 1000 ft. elevation here at my house), but go to the Rockies every summer to ride. The only thing I would add to what everyone else has said is to really pay attention to heartrate. I don't rely so much on percentage as I do the actual number. Through the years I have learned that I can ride at altitude (7,000 ft. and over) if I keep my heartrate below a certain number. Above that and I crack because of lack of oxygen. I am not and never will be a fast climber, slow and steady is more my style, but eventually I make it to the top.
I can relate to this. I haven't done a field test to see what my TT HR is for a long time, so I'm not completely clear on my HR percentages these days. But, I am getting a pretty good read of how long I can go at various actual HRs, and how they affect me later, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by IFjane
Thanks for your post. Makes a lot of sense.
BTW, I just posted a new thread/question called:
Should I do the metric, or the whole thing?
Would like to invite you ladies to weigh in, if you feel like it!
I know I'm a little late coming in here but in addition to all the good advice you've already gotten, there is one thing I want to add.
My husband and I had been training to do some local mountain centuries as well. We live in the foothills with about 3 or 4 mountain climbs within 50 miles of us, so we have to get a little creative to do the heavy elevation days. One thing I read in my training research has really stuck in my head. I forget who wrote this, but they compared building your climbing ability to body building (or muscle gain). Your body does it's best work when you are RESTING. You build strength and muscle when at rest, not when you are riding. This is why periodization is such a huge buzz word in all sporting events. You need to have periods that are quite a bit of a departure from your overall goal to ensure consistent injury-free progression and to prevent over-training. I think MP mentioned a week where you do the miles but not the elevation followed by a week where you cut the miles short and ramp up the elevation. This is what we have worked into our schedule and it's not only nice for variety (mentally) but it was truly helping my body. I swear that the first long ride with elevation we did after the two week alternating rotation schedule seemed MUCH easier. I think that the week of short miles and big elevation really pushed my legs further than they had ever gone, and then the rest days followed by the long ride just helped them recover. It truly showed in my performance only two weeks later.
Anyway, just some things to think about. I am by no means an expert and unfortunately, due to a crazy work schedule followed by an illness followed by another crazy work schedule, I've now been off the bike for 5 weeks and had to miss our first event of the year. :( I feel like I'm starting at square one myself and this past weekend's 60 mile, moderately hilly ride pretty much proved it. Ah well...that's the beauty of the human body...it'll adapt again. :)
GLC - I am really interested in some specifics on your periodization schedule. How far are your long rides & how far the climbing ones (with how much climbing?)? The problem I have up here is that we have LOTS of rolling hills with great climbs, but not too many sustained ones. Because of the restricted access to the Shenandoah Natl. Park (my county borders it), we have to drive a long way to find routes with sustained climbs to the top of the mountains. I would like to throw some of your workouts in before we head to CO for the Triple Bypass this year. Anything you can tell me will be greatly appreciated!
I understand your frustration from being off the bike for 5 weeks. I, too, am trying to play catch-up with my training. Hang in there!
GLC was referring to my post about the group I am coaching for the Death Ride (130 miles, 14,000 feet) - where we're building their distance and climbing, and I have been doing some alternating of what we're pushing week to week - and also giving them some true periodization in there as well. They seem to be doing great with it, and I think they'll do well at their event.
So a typical (mid-season) progression for them would be:
50 miles, 4000 feet
65 miles, 5000 feet
75 miles, 6500 feet
50 miles, 4000 feet
80 miles, 6500 feet
125 miles, 7000 feet
90 miles, 8700 feet
50 miles, 4000 feet
Alternating the (relatively) short rides with a lot of climbing, like our last ride - 90 miles with 8700 feet - with long rides with less climbing kind of edges them up for both the distance and the climbing components wihtout overworking them. In the next month, they'll have two 100 - 120 milers with 10 - 12,000 feet, alternating with easier rides, including a century with about 6000 feet and some riding passes at altitude.
What's great is seeing how the rides they used to think were super hard are now easy. That's the point! :)
Ok, gotcha! Thank you for the clarification. I had forgotten about your earlier post (didn't go back and read it this afternoon).
Yep, what MP said!
I can also give you a more moderate picture of what we were doing prior to my work/illness issue.
An example of one 'cycle':
wk 1: 65 miles, 4500 ft climbing
wk 2: 55 miles, 5500 ft climbing - this was tougher than it looks because those climbs were much steeper than our normal terrain in order to get to 5500 ft in only 55 miles
wk 3: 85 miles rolling terrain (probably 2500 feet overall)
wk 4: 75 miles, 6000 climbing
After doing this just once, I noticed that wk 4 was MUCH easier for me than week 1 was, on the same general terrain. There could have been other conditions that made it seem easier, but I do recall that many of the climbs we had done in wk 1 that were repeated in wk 4 (we did both rides in the same county) were 'flatter' to us. I also know that after completing some of the climbs of wk 2, everything seemed easier in comparison (though that was definitely a mental benefit).
Week 5 was to be another shorter, steeper route, but that's when I got slammed with work.... :mad:
Oh, and two other benefits to training like this are 1) that you can get to total fatigue in a shorter distance on some of those weeks like wk 2, so they are a bit easier to fit into the rest of life's schedule. And 2) if you have to travel to get to the bigger hills/climbs, you don't have to do that travel every weekend.
These examples, and the advice with them, are really helpful. It is great for me to see some jumps in mileage from 65-85, for instance. I understand that the climbing alters the distances, but even so, it is good for me to see the large jumps in mileage.
I have tended in the past to be so afraid of burning myself out (it has happened!), that I adhere to the no-more-than-10%-per-week rule of progression. That can get tedious and uninspiring.
I am liking the alternating longer, flatter weeks with the shorter, steeper weeks.
GLC, thanks much for weighing in :) ...I'm sorry for your work overload! :(
Ummmm...so which week is the regeneration week? Week #4 doesn't exactly look like an easy week, compared to weeks 1-3? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
The idea is that week 2 and week 3 work your muscles in different ways, so essentially, week 2 is 'resting' from distance and week 3 is 'resting' from climbing. Then, when you put them together, you are stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfish
This is also assuming that you are taking some off-bike rest days during the week. After the crazy climbing weekend, I did an easy spin day (literally, easy...15 miles tops) and then took 2 full days of rest. Had we been closer to the target date, I might have only taken one rest day, but two felt like the right thing to do at the time. :D
Another point of note, if you are stressing your muscles more than normal, you want to make sure that your diet contains plenty of lean protien and plenty of fruits and veggies so that it has all the fuel it needs to build and recover. Good quality sleep is also essential.
Oh, and the 65 to 85 mile jump is only because we were already doing rides of that length and our goal was to be able to go that distance AND climb. If your longest ride ever is more like 45 miles (as an example), I wouldn't make regular 20 mile distance jumps. Even if your muscles can handle it, it's probably not so great for tendons, ligaments, connective tissue, etc. This is even more true for those of us whose bodies aren't 20 anymore! ;)
I'd actually add in a week here and there of both shorter distance and climbing. True periodization. But it's what works for you that's important. (And I have to say that I have not been that good about the shorter weekend rides myself because of the events I've been doing, and I do tend more to take the rest time for the off weeks during the weekdays instead. But I do make sure to put in a week here and there in the calendar for the people I'm training for DR.)
This all makes a lot of sense, and I really appreciate your input and discussion. Saturday is an organized ride, and it fits in well with the alternating long vs. climb weekend. It will be 70 miles with about 3000 feet, whereas last weekend was 40 miles with 5100 feet.
And, I am really tired today...I think next week is going to be a true regeneration week.
Well, on Saturday I did an organized ride of 69 miles with 3445 feet. This included about 4-5 short climbs of higher grades that sent my HR into the red.
This ride turned out to be harder for me than I had hoped. It was definitely harder than last week's long ride, which was 40 miles with 5100 feet of steady mountain climbing. I seem to be weaker on the longer distances with relatively less climbing, but with higher % spikes in climbing.
I notice that as my weekend rides have gotten harder (and I have added a hard spinning class on Tuesdays), I am doing fewer aerobic workouts during the week, and more recovery.
I wonder if my aerobic endurance is eroding, or wasn't that great to begin with? I am considering doing a 10 day endurance overload block to boost it. Chris Carmichael did his Bicycling column about this a month or two ago. I would do a regeneration 6 days, then a 10 day block of longer, back to back, aerobic endurance rides, then a few days of recovery again.
I have about 10 weeks before my goal event. I am thinking this would be a 3 week endurance block, and then I could get back to a couple more blocks of climbing & intervals?
Or, should I just stick with the alternating long rides that we have been discussing here?
I feel like a babe in the woods with these training plan ideas. I am grateful for any thoughts (haha...these days, my thoughts are so few and far between! LOL :p )