This is so horrible. I hope the Gages recover fully.
The one thing that bothers me about biking is that I've always refused to get on a motorcycle (well, once when I was 14) because they're too dangerous. And here I'm on a bike in traffic? This doesn't make me feel any safer about motorcycles, so why should I feel safe on a bike? The only difference is the speed issue, which is huge. OTOH, if a car is involved, what difference does speed make?
There's been much debate here on whether or not to post these kinds of things. Cycling can be a dangerous sport, anyone who watches the TdF that is basicly a month long high speed crash :rolleyes: usually no cars involved.
The debate here has been there are those even on TE (where we all have a passion for the sport I hope) who will read these and think "that's it I quit".
Others may continue but freeze when being relaxed is key.
Then there's "oh, that would never happen to me, she did _____, I never do ___ I always do _____" and yes always doing _____ makes you safer.
I've read that here in the States about 37 cyclists die each year, I don't know if that figure is true. Many crashes go unreported such as urban poor riders, they are not on this forum or make the news.
When you consider the thousands and thousands of miles ridden each year all in all it's pretty safe. Maybe more so than driving itself :o
All this makes no difference when that one person is a loved one.
No figures make sense then. Or when it's someone you know, have ridden with.
I want to share something about Kathy. Kathy was my cousin Maurys "stoker", Maury's about my age. He's always been there, he's MY cousin and now we share this sport. We had been talking about some time if he wants to do a double and Kath's not available, he thought he could outfit their Calfee to fit me.
I'm much shorter than Kath but he thought it could be done.
"But tandems go so fast" I said "I might feel out of control, I've never done..." . Maury was just grinning, here's his cousin, fits the tandem and I can do centuries...why not?
He said "we don't ride our bikes to anticipate every danger that could happen"
We ride for the joy (and the food), I hope we always do.
These posts do sadden me, and they all make us evaluate the risks of the things we do in our daily lives. That is as it should be. However, we should think about *all* of the risks we take. I doubt that there is good data out there on how safe cycling really is. It's just not that well studied. We have more information on how many car accidents there are, pedestrians are hit, etc.
Sure, we could all never leave our houses, but the fact of life is that we take risks every time we get in a car, walk across the street or get on an airplane. I don't plan to stop any of those. I'm just not convinced that cycling is that much more dangerous than walking in an urban area, or any number of other activities we participate in. We have had lots of pedestrians hit recently. Lots of small cars are totaled by big trucks every day. I drive a small car on a 65 mile round trip commute every day. I think that is much more dangerous that riding my bike could be.
As long as the pace of life keeps speeding up and people are pressed to work more and more hours, with more pressures on their time and more stress in their lives, there will continue to be problems. (as an aside, I think the same things are contributing to road rage). Cell phones are a part of this, sure. So are unrestrained children, lack of sleep and any number of other things. Yes, we absolutely need to take steps to force drivers to be safe, including mandating hands free devices. I won't talk on a cell in a car without one. However, until we as a society address creasing pressures on lives, things will not improve significantly.
I wish I had the answer...I don't. But I'll keep riding my bike.
me tooQuote:
Originally Posted by CA_in_NC
Lots of good points, Trek, but the 37 fatalities per year is not accurate. Here's a more accurate count: Deaths per year: 725, 629, 665, 732, and 693 cyclists died per year in 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, and 2000 respectively, and were about 89% male. (National Highway Traffic Saftey Administration, and Insurance Institute for Highway Saftey) [Reference: http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/almanac-safety.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Other interesting statistics from the site:
Where cyclists die or crash
U.S. cyclists are three more likely to be killed than German cyclists and six times more than Dutch cyclists, whether compared per-trip or per-distance traveled. (Reuters, Aug. 28, 2003, by Maggie Fox)
Cyclist fatalities occurred more frequently in urban areas (66%), at nonintersection locations (67%), between the hours of 5 p.m. and 9 p.m. (30%), and during the months of June, July, and August (36%). (NHTSA, 2004)
Riding on the sidewalk is several more times more dangerous than riding in the street. (William Moritz, 1998)
Most deaths on major roads. Fifty-seven percent of bicycle deaths in 1999 occurred on major roads, and 37 percent occurred on local roads. (6)
Streets with bike lanes have a significantly lower crash rate then either major or minor streets without any bicycle facilities (38 and 56% respectively). (William Moritz, 1998)
Streets with bike lanes are safer than those without. Article also has information about the safety of bike paths. (BicyclingInfo.org, 2004)
Texas leads cycling deaths. Texas ranks 14th in number of cyclist fatalities per capita. (5)
Four states lead cycling deaths. Four states (California, Florida, New York, and Texas) accounted for 43% of bicycle deaths in 1999. (6)
Non-Fatal Injuries:
One in every 20 bicyclists is injured annually.(Bicycling Magazine 1987)
A bicyclist can expect a minor injury every three years and a more serious one every fifteen. (Bicycle Forum 1978) [I've had my serious one in about 15 years of cycling, but minor every three years -- obviously they didn't consider mountain bikers!! How about every three rides?!]
Kinds of crashes. Falls account for 59% of all crashes, running into a fixed object 14%, moving motor vehicles were involved in 11%, and another bicycle in 9%. (Moritz, 1998)
But here's the good news:
Health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks. "The gain of 'life years' through improved fitness among regular cyclists, and thus their increased longevity exceeds the loss of 'life years' in cycle fatalities (British Medical Association, 1992). An analysis based on the life expectancy of each cyclist killed in road accidents using actuarial data, and the increased longevity of those engaging in exercise regimes several times a week compared with those leading relatively sedentary lives, has shown that, even in the current cycle hostile environment, the benefits in terms of life years gained, outweigh life years lost in cycling fatalities by a factor of around 20 to 1." -- Mayer Hillman, Senior Fellow Emeritus, Policy Studies Institute, and British Medical Association researcher (7, 8) :)
So keep on pedaling, gals! I will try to do the same and not let my nagging fears and periodic pessimism immobilize me.
Emily
Interesting statistics. The one that really jumped out at me was the streets with bike lanes having much lower crash rates. When I'm driving, I take an extra look for cyclists in the bike lanes but on the road, it's more likely that I could miss seeing them. I really do wish there were more bike lanes throughout the country because it's definitely a win-win means of cars and bikes coexisting.
I'll keep riding, but I'm getting more and more choosy about where I'll ride.
Deb
One of the motorbikers in our cycling advocacy group tonight mentioned that they use the terms "risk awareness" and "risk acceptance" a lot. We choose our risks; a sedentary lifestyle is definitely risky.
This is a great topic, and a lot of these thoughts both pro and con have gone through my mind.
I suspect the stats are underreported also, and I do think stiffer penalties should be imposed for truly negligent driving. I struggle when reading these articles to keep perspective as a new rider, knowing I have yet to encounter a lot of scenarios. Still, the #s are really quite low, which in the scheme of things makes me think we face far greater risks being inactive, or driving ourselves, etc.
I think there is not enough driver education and testing. Kids/drivers are not taught to drive in rain, snow, extreme sun, night, and all kinds of conditions drivers regularly face. While some states now have graduated licenses, which is a good step, there still isn't a lot of time focused on practical skills other than 'turn left. stop. turn right. Good.'
Licensed drivers are almost never retested (I haven't been once since getting my license in HS, and have relicensed in 2 states). I have participated in a few winter driving schools, which are not only fun, but very effective at demonstrating some simple physics in action.
If you think about that, how can any of us be surprised when drivers have no understanding of bicycles on the road? Unfortunately, it falls to us the bicyclists to fight for our claim to the road by educating and complaining and generally pointing out that yes, it DOES matter to drivers.
Signage is a very good start and I would like to see signs on many more roads. Just the simple yellow sign with a bicycle, or the discussed elsewhere 'bicycles stop at line for green' or turning lanes etc all reinforce that yes, bikes are entitled to use the road too.
I'd say my town is pretty bike friendly, but yet there are a few stretches of roads that are in disrepair to the extent of being a danger to cyclists, and unfortunately I have to take one such section to get back to my house. I haven't complained to the town, yet, but I do think I will before they're signed up for spring road repair.
Finally, I agree there is greater safety in numbers. Not guaranteed, just greater. The 'safest' I have felt while riding this past summer was not at the 4000+ charity ride (though I did feel reasonable safe there), because there were almost too many cyclists at points. Nor was it when I was riding the nearby roads with my husband (though, there too I felt reasonably safe).
No, it was actually riding around the Lake Placid area just before the Ironman. There were probably hundreds of riders at any given time, but they were spread out training over several routes/roads, and the drivers are respectful - some maybe because they care, some maybe because they are willing to 'put up' with it, some maybe only because they are forced to behave with so many cycle friendly witnesses around. Whatever it is, I don't care. As far as I am concerned that's how it should be. I'll add that this area also is well signed as bike routes, and there are bike tourists and people training most of the riding weather months.
Another example, there's a nice long rail trail running thru my town (and neighboring ones). It cuts across roads at several points. More often than not, the car drivers STOP when they see cyclists. No one's forcing them to. I could argue this isn't proper driving behavior either, but I'll take a stopped vehicle who acknowledges a cyclist as a positive, because it's imprinting that cyclists matter on the driver's mind.
Like in LP, there's road signage, there's the cycling traffic, and there is the understanding (even if subconscious) that the people riding might be neighbors or friends.
The only way I think we can hope for that lightning in a bottle on a broader scale is by being vocal and/or visibly frequent/numerous wherever we ride, and especially wherever we ride most.
We can't make drivers pay attention, and we can't make drivers follow the law. We CAN push to have laws passed that make it a more serious offense if a driver injures a cyclist through inattentive driveing or failure to yield. We CAN give our law enforcement the law to cite these people when they cause horrible consequences for people trying to ride (or walk) safely.
True, it won't make physical recovery any easier for the victims, but at least we aren't adding insult to injury by ignoring the trauma they have endured.
Do any states (other countries) have laws that address this?
Yes - In Germany, cars must yield to cyclists & pedestrians and cyclists must yield to pedestrians. I don't know what the specific penalties are but if a car sees a pedestrian approaching a crosswalk, they stop like their own life depends on it (and the car backs up quickly if they find themselves blocking even inches of a crosswalk with a pedestrian coming). Cars do pretty much the same if a cyclist is approaching. Everyone is obligated to look out for something smaller and more vulnerable. It's a lot to look out for when you're driving, but everyone takes their reponsibility seriously over there.Quote:
Originally Posted by deena
Our state's driving handbook states that it's the driver's responsibility to look out for anything smaller, but there aren't many laws or ticketable offenses for not doing so. I think, though, that a better system of bike lanes, wider shoulders, etc., would make it easier for us to ride predictably and out of the direct path of cars. We need the laws and more cyclist-friendly roads.
Deb
Yes. In Arizona killing a cyclist will cost you $1,000. If you simply injure her, the fine is reduced to $500.Quote:
Originally Posted by deena
I noticed in N.C., tossing a wrapper out of your car will cost you $1,200. Shooting an animal out of season can cost you upwards of $2,000.
Recently, a cyclist was killed in the bike lane. The car entered the bike lane and hit him from behind. The driver was cited for driving in the bike lane. Period.
_____________
Re: Cell phones - it has been shown that holding the phone isn't the problem. Actually talking on the phone, thus diverting attention away from the road, is what causes the problems. So, hands-free devices aren't any better.
Geonz said:
I was about to make that point. Heart disease, pulmonary disease, diabetes, and a LONG list of other "lifestyle" diseases kill many more people than bikes ever could, even with the "help" of cars. Heart attacks just don't get the headlines, though.Quote:
We choose our risks; a sedentary lifestyle is definitely risky.
Me, I'm aware that I will die someday. I'd rather do it on my bike than wasting away in a nursing home. Of course, I'm planning on waiting awhile for that to happen. :)
'Tis very true that a sedentary lifestyle is a *huge* risk, much more so than cycling. But the thing that gives me pause is that there are a lot of *less* risky healthy activities than (road) cycling that accomplish the same thing -- if aerobic and muscular fitness is our primary goal. Running (not in traffic, but say, on trails) and hiking for starters, both of which I enjoy a great deal. Mountain biking, perhaps more risky for minor crashes (at least for me!), but probably less risky for fatal/debilitating ones.... Choosing not to ride on the road does not condemn one to a life of sloth, clogging arteries, and increasing weight as there are other alternatives.
These are the things I think about when I try to weigh the risks and rewards of road cycling. I love it so, but at times my fears do hold me back these days. I have lost my innocence since my own serious accident and hearing/reading so about so many others in the past couple of years. Some days, my yearning to ride on the road is stronger than my fears, normally only when the weather is perfect and my mood is upbeat and positive. Other days, I just can't bring myself to go out on the road. I used to feel invincible out there, very confident, never even thought about crashing or being hit. I'm much more cautious now. That's a good thing -- but I do miss the "ignorance is bliss" stage. I had more worry-free fun back then.
Emily
For me cycling is not just about fitness, it's about having a lifestyle that is more respectful of my environment (both human and physical). That's one of the main reasons why I won't leave the road to the cars alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by emily_in_nc
Hiking and mountain biking are both great, but these are things I need to take a car to do. Running is great, I do it a lot, but it's also very taxing on my body (joints) compared to cycling. The road is right there at my feet when I walk out of my door. I also need to go places. I much prefer taking my bike than my car. Often I'll still take the car, if it's pouring rain and I need to buy groceries for 10 people, or if it's night (I am not properly equipped for night riding right now). I love 'cycling for cycling' but I gain even more satisfaction sometimes from running errands or going to events on my bike (not my road bike though).
I understand your bad vibes about riding on the road and the 'lost innocence' thing. I think A LOT of car drivers actually are still in that ignorant bliss and don't realize that driving is a dangerous activity. By putting them on bikes we're also increasing safety for us...
It is important that we cyclist realize that just because we have rights on the road, many drivers will not yield to us. Once a driver almost hit me broadside. I chased him down (OK, not smart, I was young & dumb) and yelled:
"You could have killed me!"
His reply?
"You could have scratched my car!"
Whereupon he sauntered into the store. I got on the phone & called 911 & reported him. A cop actually showed up (maybe because this dispatcher realized it was crazy) and "talked to him."