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I was wondering when the French-bashing would begin...I seriously doubt it was on purpose. The driver overcorrected to avoid the tree. He or she should not have been passing to begin with.
I rather like the tidbits about the chateaux and villages. It's great exposure for alot of very economically depressed small towns to have the Tour pass through. I've been watching Eurosport coverage and they don't give as much information on the regions and towns. I miss those stories.
It is hard to exaggerate about what happened, hyperbole is nearly impossible. It was scandalous, intolerable, disgraceful, etc. It was an officially accredited car that hit the riders (which implies some sort of vetting -- of course, they do not vet based on driving skills, but they might reconsider that). The riders could have been severely hurt or worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborajen
The notion that it hitting the riders was on purpose is ludicrous in my view. Hopefully, the police is involved and that the driver was stopped that day and checked for traces of alcohol. I'm with Tulip -- I enjoy hearing a little of the history and factoids of each region.
Here's a cute picture, from an ITV (UK) photo gallery:
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/2011...wFile.jpg.ashx
Every time I see Tommy Voeckler I just want to pinch his cheeks!
Wait - One of my favorite riders is Thomas Voekler!Quote:
Originally Posted by tulip
I'll grant you that I'm a little suspicious. There is a lot of history in the Tour, and some of it is the French not always being particularly good sports about their countrymen not winning. But like I said, did something get lost in the translation? And you answered that part. :)
There are boneheads in every country. Maybe this driver was one of them (besides being a lousy driver and not following directions). France is kind enough to invite the world to be their guests and participate in this event. Yes, it's a beautiful country, too!
I'm really enjoying this ongoing Tour commentary thread, especially since the Tour never fails to disappoint as the summer's most interesting telenovela :)
Off day, or ride day, there are always comment-worthy news, though some I'd put in the category of gossip... And in that vein, Spanish newspaper El Pais is commenting as a gossipy aside that the car that hit Flecha and Hoogerland was driven by a well-known French sports commentator. However, I can no longer find that juicy tidbit in the coverage. It might have been edited out, and I failed to bookmark the piece. What is more interesting is the interview with Flecha, who was very much upset at how no one has apologized in person for the accident, only Proudhomme presented his apologies to the team director. He doesn't have kind words for Voeckler either.
And we have the first withdrawal for doping, Russian rider Alexander Kolobnev, of Team Katusha. In fact, the entire team was subjected to doping controls on 6 July, and El Pais is also reporting that the team expects another of their riders, a "close friend" of Kolobnev's to also show positive. Kolobnev's positive was for a diuretic, hydrocloriotazide (sp?), originally designed as an anti-hypertensive medicine, and which masks the use of other doping substances. Since the positive is for a substance that also has a medical use, withdrawal is not mandatory, but Kolobnev has "chosen" to retire from the race.
As the French would say, plus ça change, plus la même chose...
MuddyTrails
Why is that? It's not like the crash was Voeckler's fault! I also think it's somewhat shocking that there's been no public apology to the riders from the driver and the media company.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyTrails
@blue_angel:
Apparently, Voeckler looked back, saw the accident and took the opportunity to launch an attack. At least that is how Flecha and the interviewer perceived it. I must say that I am not privy to the internal moral code of the peloton, so I can't very well say what social rule V. seems to have broken, other than making the best of someone else's misery, which is not very nice. I leave it to others on the forum to clue us into that. Here's Flecha's answer to the question, "what did you think when you saw Voeckler accelerate after the accident?":
"Pues lo veo normal dentro de lo que es Voeckler, porque va así en todas las escapadas, sembrando cizaña. Antes, justamente, Casar, otro del grupo, le había echado una bronca porque atacaba bajando después de pelear por los puntos de la montaña, en vez de esperar a los que no los disputábamos. Iba con la fijación del maillot amarillo, le daba todo igual. Ya le conocemos, me habría sorprendido lo contrario."
Translation: "I see it as normal, given who Voeckler is, since that is how he operates in all the escapes, sowing discord. Just prior, Casar, another in the group, had reprimanded him because he was attacking on the descent after fighting for the mountain points, instead of waiting for those of us who were not challenging for those. He was fixated on the yellow jersey, he didn't care. We know him, I would have been surprised had he acted otherwise."
I don't ride in groups, and I know nothing of the ethos of the peloton, or road racing, but from the commentary, it is clear that there is an expectation of not abusing other's misfortune (or perhaps, not being so crass about it?).
MuddyTrails
Interesting! I'm equally ignorant of the mores of group/peloton/race riding. But what I find particularly curious is how Flecha's comment is diametrically opposed to all of the tv commentators' observations about V's behavior post-crash. I think in the first moments, Voeckler had no way of knowing just how bad that crash was. But within moments the remaining 3 of the breakaway were riding tightly together and were conferring amongst themselves. The commentators specifically pointed to V as the leader of the breakaway holding them back in order to get more details and to see how to proceed.
I'm not really sure what Flecha would have wanted Voeckler to do under the circumstances--sacrifice the gap? Abandon his plans to capture the yellow jersey? What happened to Flecha and Hoogerland was awful and totally unfair, but the Tour is still a competition, and there can only be so much cooperation amongst competitors. Flecha's comments, to me, sound a bit like sour grapes. Although I'll be the first to concede that I may be missing some of the finer points of strategy.
Didn't I see Voekler making the kill sign across his throat, signaling "No attack" to slow down the other breakaway riders shortly past the accident in order to wait for the ones who crashed?
Roxy
Oh I'm sure they have lawyered up and been advised not to comment. Yes it's shocking, and arrogant that the incident even happened during the Tour, but really, it's not that much different from any other impatient motorist that accidently knocks down a cyclist, when if they could have slowed down or stopped until it was clear and safe to pass (God forbid it costs you 10 additional seconds to avoid an accident). I would not expect an apology, nor an admission of guilt. Surely they will have no contact with the victims, and will simply let the lawyers and insurance companies fight it out. How the driver will live with himself is another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_angel
The video is pretty damning evidence and I think they will be hard pressed to come up with a creative defense. Perhaps in a few days they will issue a statement.
That's what I remember as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by channlluv
my 2 cents... FWIW... the driver should have hit the brakes, or hit the tree. But a natural reaction is to swerve, unless one is a very well trained sunt car driver. Most of us had driving lessons when we were teenagers, then everything else we've learned is from the school of hard knocks. As humans we tend to over-react - thus swerving wider than necessary.
But seems to me that the people in that car should be publically apologizing.
Maybe I'm just cranky because I woke up this morning feeling like crap and went to PT anyway. (tummy decided it hated me, knee and I are on speaking terms)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmccasland
The driver should not have been moving in the first place. He should have been pulled over at the side of the road. That's what race managment had instructed him to do. They told him to pull over so Voeckler's team car could pull up and give him water.
And if he had not been told to pull over, he was supposed to honk the horn to warn the riders that he was passing. He didn't do that, either.
On a completely different note, I'm getting REALLY sick of that Nissan Leaf commercial where everything runs on gas. I nearly threw my coffee mug at the TV! On the other hand, I could watch that cute, fluffy dog from Traveler's protect his dog house all day. :p