X-ray backscatter security scanners

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Originally Posted by channlluv

Is our collective ego so big that we can't take a lesson on security from Israel?

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Given the numbers of people who travel here in the US I suspect we would need to get to the airport a DAY or two ahead of our flights to get interviewed by the well trained agent to see if we are terrorists.


And how many well trained agents would there need to be at every airport? How much money are those well trained agents going to get paid yearly? What funds are going to be used to pay them?

Israel as a country is like 1/10 the size of California. How many major airports do they have? Fewer than California I suspect.

What you are suggesting would be a huge undertaking and a massive financial burden on someone - either the travelers or the taxpayers.

Veronica

Roxy: You do not need to tell the TSA folks anything about your health. You can opt out without explanation. At least in O'Hare, there are prominent signs stating you may opt out of the back scatter. I opt out not because of a health issue, but because I do not trust the TSA to competently maintain and handle those machines. In a hospital, they are attended to by specialists and not used nearly as frequently. The TSA won't even allow their personnel to wear the badges that track their exposure to radiation.

It may help to crack a joke if you are apprehensive. I don't find the pat down particularly invasive. The TSA person always tells you what she is about to do, and does it quickly. Not the most comfortable event ever, but a lot less invasive than most doctor/dentist visits.

I don't think opposition to racial profiling - or other profiling based on appearance - has anything to do with "ego."

It does seem to me that people profiled as most likely to be terrorized, not terrorists - in particular elderly white females - are disproportionately selected for extra screening. I could go on about why I think that's the case ...

Are those just the ones that get written up in the news though?

I am sure, as with every profession, there are icky people. But to just assume that they are all icky... That's like saying all teachers are in it for the three months off and because they couldn't a real job. All lawyers are scumbags and ambulance chasers. All IT people are geeks and can't get a date.

We know those generalizations aren't true. Teachers only get two months off. :D

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Veronica

Are those just the ones that get written up in the news though?

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It's what I've observed and what I've heard from relatives. Not that writing it up in the news isn't part of the strategy ...

I don't think individual TSA screeners are "icky," by and large. I think they're underpaid for doing an unpleasant and potentially dangerous job, and on top of that, they've had to fight tooth and nail every step of the way for employment rights that most workers take for granted. But all law enforcement jobs force workers into an "us vs. them" mentality, and they're no exception.

(Part of why I knew I couldn't do criminal law as a career, as much as I loved some of the work. Prosecution or defense, it doesn't matter, seeing only the ugliest side of humanity day after day - and looking hard to find the ugliness in every person you see - just warps people. IMVHO...)

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

But all law enforcement jobs force workers into an "us vs. them" mentality, and they're no exception.

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I guess I'm weird because I don't feel that way. I've always felt like law enforcement was on my side. Even when I got pulled aside for extra screening, which annoyed me. But I still felt like they were just doing their job to try to keep every one safe.

Maybe I'm naive because believe in the system. It's not a perfect system and I know there is injustice. But I think it's better than anything else.

And I'm glad that I am in a position where I can look for the goodness in those I work with.

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Veronica

Given the numbers of people who travel here in the US I suspect we would need to get to the airport a DAY or two ahead of our flights to get interviewed by the well trained agent to see if we are terrorists.


And how many well trained agents would there need to be at every airport? How much money are those well trained agents going to get paid yearly? What funds are going to be used to pay them?

Israel as a country is like 1/10 the size of California. How many major airports do they have? Fewer than California I suspect.

What you are suggesting would be a huge undertaking and a massive financial burden on someone - either the travelers or the taxpayers.

Veronica

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I beg to differ. The TSA tries to replace intelligence with mechanical checks and technology. TSA security protocols are entirely reactive: take the check on shoes or the liquids issue... Those backscatter machines were not free (they run at the tune of $100k to $200k per machine, not considering training and maintenance costs, assuming, even hoping, they spend on that at all). Perhaps that money, now lining some company's pockets, should have been used in training of the huge number of staff members the TSA already has in place. Or to train sniffer dogs. Instead of smart profiling, they terrorize people and they have the perpetual and misused threat of adding people to the no-fly list. Does anyone honestly feel safer since the TSA was created, seriously? Air marshals were a good idea -- I think that was an Israeli practice. Taking our shoes off, carrying ZIP lock bags... not so brilliant.

We are flying to Belize tomorrow morning (out of Charlotte), and I'll be interested to see if we get asked to do the backscatter x-ray. We haven't flown since the new regulations. If I am chosen to have the x-ray, I plan to opt out, as I've had so many x-rays in my life that I don't want any more radiation.

I don't think the pat-down will bother me, as long as it's done quickly and professionally. But it would be great not to have either. We'll see!

I went in to the doctor today for more x-rays, and I chatted with him a bit about the machines. He was pretty certain that the hardware will be picked up by the image scanners regardless (despite the fact that the machines shouldn't be able to see under the skin) and he seemed to think that when I am called for a secondary pat-down, it is because we are dealing with lesser-trained agents who don't recognize the hardware for what it is. His advice was to just show them the scar when they pull me aside :p

(just wanted to note - I will go through wave mm detectors, but not x-ray)

Good luck with the Charlotte airport. I am not fond of that air port. Used to live outside of Charlotte and my husband flew several times for work and my sister flew a couple of times to visit us. Most of the it was more an issue with finding luggage upon getting off the plane because they never seem to know which luggage carousel is going to get what plane's luggage. The last I'd heard that is one of the air ports looking at kicking TSA out in favor of private security due to some issues.

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Originally Posted by Trek420

No, it's really not. :rolleyes:...

I'm sure we feel as I do that we should know history so we never forget and never let this happen again. I recommend you start with a reliable source and not some forum. You'll never learn anything on a forum ;) :p I recommend starting:

http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/

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Thank you, Trek, for your understanding. I certainly meant no offense, but I think you know that. Thanks for the directions, too, to the appropriate source material. I've realized that people who are trying to express something with great passion tend toward the bombastic in comparing their drama with other historical events of much greater magnitude. I'm sorry I let that seep into my post.

I appreciate all the other good points made and opinions shared, too.

I do love the variety on this board.

Roxy

Hmm Snap... Borderline. Something like that won't help those who are anxious about these pat downs and looked for reassurance in this very thread.

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Originally Posted by pll

Hmm Snap... Borderline. Something like that won't help those who are anxious about these pat downs and looked for reassurance in this very thread.

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I not only laughed, I showed it to the SO, who also had his day brightened.

No fair giving just the highlights. Now I'm waiting for the rest of the the Harlequin novel where she also gets the castle. I've never read one but I heard somewhere that Harlequin novels plot lines are 3 little words: girl gets house. :rolleyes:

Aren't the pat downs usually done by the same gender? That's a whole 'nother genre of literature. :rolleyes: ;) :p

I'm a frequent flyer. So far the past 12 months: at least a dozen round trips, many of them involving multiple flights each way, often with separate security checks (many airports don't have a way to get from one area to another without going out of the secure area, which means you have to get checked to get back in). I always opt out of the backscatter x-ray. Imagine my exposure just from flying if I didn't! Not to mention all the x-rays I have for medical reasons :eek: I am usually not asked why I'm opting out. Twice I was asked and just said I wanted to limit my radiation exposure. I didn't elaborate. Opting out always entails some extra wait time, since they have to call an appropriate (= same sex) security officer over to do the pat down. (Yes, assuming that a same sex officer is appropriate is a heterosexist assumption, but I don't heckle them about that.) At first the pat down was quick and efficient but brusk, as if I was a trouble-maker for opting out. More recently it's been highly professional in that the officer explained each step before doing it - which didn't take noticeably longer. Last time I was asked if there was anything she should be aware of in the pat down - sensitive spots or unusual anatomy. I said I had an ostomy appliance. She asked where. I pointed. She had me hold my hand over that area as she did the pat down, then she did a wipe scan of my hand. Another officer asked if they had to do a wipe scan of the appliance itself or have me strip down in a separate room. She said no and explained why to him. I used to find many TSA folks insensitive. I think they've received some training over the years now. I wish they were being better treated, especially regarding their own radiation exposure. I find that travel is not a hassle as long as I: 1) get to the airport in good time, 2) smile (and ye will be smiled back at), 3) relax into my zen fatalist state (I got here on time, I did my bit, now it's up to the airline and no longer my problem - eventually, I will get where I need to be).