Beginning to Run Thread

Am I the only one here just starting to get into running? I suspect that I am not...so a "beginning to run" thread seemed a good idea. I am experimenting with trail running and my goal is to condition my body so I can run reasonable distances on the trail without injuring myself. While it isn't designed for trail running in particular, I am adopting the Couch - 5K approach. While I CAN run 400 meters without stopping, perhaps 500 if I really pushed it (on the track), I can only do that a couple of times before I am DONE.

Today I laced up my trail shoes a couple of hours after Yoga class, and walked 15 minutes to my local trail. I tried to stick to running 2 minutes and walking 3, but of course the terrain has something to do with those splits. I've a really tight heel cord (currently working on that - just need to work on those sliding surfaces), and I will only run uphill if there aren't many obstacles and if my knee isn't hurting. I play it by ear, and try to focus on keeping my head up while scanning the trail in front of me. I am also trying to keep from swinging my shoulders back and forth as I've read that isn't a good thing to do, and to keep my feet beneath me, to not "stretch out". I don't care about distance or speed right now, just trying to build up my tolerance for running.

Cardiovascular-speaking I seem to be fine even if I've not been riding this year as I would like. My body parts start hurting before my breathing becomes a problem - and I credit THAT to the high intensity group training I've done for the last year - a year ago I couldn't even run 100 meters.

I've noticed that my various body parts don't start hurting until about 20-25 minutes into my run/walk split. So my current goal is to stick as much as I can to that 2 minute run/3 minute walk until I can do that for at least 30 minutes without anything hurting. When I can do that I will consider changing the split and/or increasing the time. There are a couple of trail events in my area with shorter distances that sound like they might be fun, and I may consider them next year, but I've a long way to go before I consider it a possibility.

Advice is always appreciated, and if there are any other beginning runners - trail or pavement - add your voice to this thread :)

I'm very happy to see this thead! I'm on week 4 of the nhs version of c25k (UK healthcare). I'm running sometime on road, sometime off road. Absolutely loving it, though trying to take it easy as I have thyroid issues. I'm not having breathing or aching issues, but I do keep an eye on my heart rate as asthma inhaler plus thyroid tend to raise my heart rate fairly fast. I would love to get to the point of running 3-5k a couple of times a week. I have noticed that it's giving me nice strong leg muscles for cycling, which is a bonus.

I used to run quite a lot during my time in the Army (no surprise) but when I got out I vowed not to run again. For some reason, after 15 years, I decided that I missed it so I am starting over again. I view myself as a beginner. I used the C25K and then went to the 13.1 trainer -- we'll see what happens.

The only real problem I seem to have is with my left heel cord, where the tendon goes over the calcaneus. I suspect it is an issue of seriously tacked down soft tissue that doesn't allow the tendon to slide properly and I am working on that. Some days I notice this less than others - has anyone had a problem with this and found a way to deal with it?

I've a late morning to the office tomorrow, so will likely go for a bit of a trail run/walk before. I've become a wimp and won't ride unless it is at least 65 and it is supposed to be colder than that in the morning. In AUGUST!!!

I gave my heels and calves some tough love last night with a foam roller - and could certainly tell the difference afterwards. No running until I can go a couple of days with no heel-cord tightness. All I need is to put an already tight tendon under too heavy a load trying to trail run... The solution seems pretty obvious given the aftermath of my treatment last night! Tight calves (and shins) are also part of this, of course. Hamstrings and quads are fine and indeed my hammies are super-flexible :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catrin

has anyone had a problem with this and found a way to deal with it?

---

Chronic issue for me too.

Sounds like you've got the calf part covered, don't forget to release the fascia in your feet too. Roll them out on a spiky ball or spiky stick, or walk on pebbles. Hurts so good.

Strengthening is the other half of prevention. Nothing helps my Achilles like one-legged calf raises. Do them barefoot since the point is to use all the muscles of your feet and calves in good alignment. Use a light touch for balance - fingertips on a wall or a chair back. Progress to doing them no hands. Static stretching afterwards, again making sure to target as many of the muscles as you can. Here are some more foot exercises (don't forget to follow the link for the Phase 1 exercises too).

With your history of foot surgery, you might just be stuck with foot and ankle alignment issues. Something to ask your chiropractor about, I'd think.

Oakleaf - thanks for your comments. I keep meaning to ask my chiro about that, but currently my shoulder has top billing and I forget :) I will check out the exercises on the link you provided.

The MobilityWOD website'Supple Leopard book has some good information on heel/calf work, and I also have Brian McKenzie's book on Crossfit Endurance (he focuses on Running/Cycling/Swimming mixed with Crossfit workouts. I think he has some foot work in that book as well. He also has some excellent videos online that address beginning running and trail running.

I know some appear to insist that trail running is more advanced than pavement running and it isn't the best way to start - but I just can't tolerate running on the pavement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catrin

I know some appear to insist that trail running is more advanced than pavement running and it isn't the best way to start - but I just can't tolerate running on the pavement.

---

Well, from the POV of someone who doesn't run trails at all but has an opinion on everything whether I know anything about it or not :rolleyes: :p - I think it's an excellent place to start.

I think trail running IS more "advanced" than pavement, in the sense that it requires more balanced strength in all the stabilizer muscles that can get neglected running on pavement. So, if someone like me decided to up and run the same distance (or even the same duration) on trails that I do on pavement, I'd be almost sure to get an injury.

But if you start on trails, and start slow and easy as you're doing, you never develop those bad habits and muscle imbalances. You build all the muscles and reflexes together. I say go for it. But what do I know.

That was my conclusion as well Oak :) I am unsure that what I do can be called running anyway. I jog a bit, walk a bit, rinse and repeat.

I AM avoiding the treadmill outside of my group training sessions. While it is more comfortable running, I don't think it is doing me any favors for trail running. I will do intervals on the track when I get a wild hair to run solo inside.

I wanted to ride today but my neck was being overly cranky...and our coach asked us to put a long and slow effort this weekend within a target heart rate zone for some time period between 30-90 minutes. I knew that wasn't going to happen on the bike, so I tied on my trail running shoes. My goal was to put in at least an hour of some combination of trail running/hiking with a particular average heart rate. I went to a different trail than I've run before and decided to focus on how my knee/heel felt rather than any formal timed split between hiking/running.

I had a great time! I hit my goal of 60 minutes, and also hit my desired heart rate average (120). I wish I had thought to take my camera, I ran by some gorgeous lake over-looks at the top of the ridge. At the end of the ride my calf was a bit tighter than when I started, but knee and heel was no worse than at the start. I focused on heart rate more than how fast I was running - really it was a slow jog - I don't care about speed right now. I will take it!

Hoping to take an easy ride after my Funday Sunday group workout tomorrow - if I've anything left afterwards!

That sounds lovely, Catrin. I watch heart rate too but don't bother with speed. Trail running was my first exercise love, I absolutely love it. I prefer trail shoes for off-road and normal running shoes for on pavement, apart from that I don't really differentiate between the two.

I'm on week 5 of couch to 5k this week, the week that will apparently see me doing a non-stop 20minute run at the weekend! Onwards and upwards :)

I have done my 20 minute run :D It was fine, but I'm taking an absolute rest day today, no cycling and nothing more energetic than baking bread and walking to the paper shop.

Sounds good Hebe :) I was actually able to ride yesterday - and decided that was enough for my knee for one day. I've noticed that when I am not riding regularly that my knee gets more cranky - so hopefully I can tolerate more riding. I think that will help my knee to be happier when I am trail running. Depending on how hard we hit it this morning at my workout I may do some trail running late afternoon or after dinner - at least get my 30 minutes in.

I've been occasionally posting in the other thread as I 'learn' to run again, but I am really starting at the beginning as well.

I'm signed up to do a 1/2 marathon in October and it's a little too soon but I'm just going to have to do the best I can between now and then. This is an auto re-sign up from dropping out last year, so if I don't do it, I lose my entrance fee. Considering how much $ I lost last year in lost entrance fees, I feel like I have to at least attempt this one!

I've been occasionally running 1 or 2 miles all summer but two weeks ago, had to get more regular in my attempts. The first week, I raced a 5K (stupid, but whatever) and ran my 4 mile 'long' run on the weekend. Last week, I did a mid-week 3 mile run and then 5 miles this past Saturday. I'm sooo much slower than I was before my injury but at least my foot is not bothering me.

This week, the goal is two mid week runs and my 6 mile run on Sunday. Considering that we'll be kayaking all week, we'll see if I can do this. I hope to find some trails to run on one of the islands where we will be camping on Thursday or so.

While trail running might be technically harder, I find it much easier on my body than road running. I can trail run for multiple days in a row, but throw in a road/pavement/cement run and I need a day off to let my joints, feet and muscles recover! Plus, trail running is usually more interesting so time seems to go by faster.

I agree GLC, trail running doesn't hurt as much and is more interesting :) If I could just persuade my heel to stop complaining...

Yesterday we played a sprinting game in my Funday workout - it was a relay race but to make it more interesting one group were "zombies" and while we were both running the same direction, the zombies goal was to catch someone from my group. I literally have NEVER run that fast in my life, and I think I must have been hitting the basketball court pretty hard for my heel was very p'ssed off for the rest of the day. Today my quads are even sore - sprinting ALWAYS makes me hurt for a day or two. Deadlifts, back squats, box jumps, whatever - other activities rarely make me sore but sprinting is very consistent that way.

Glad to see this thread. My neck has been bad lately & I'm getting a lot of numbness in my hand. Cycling long distances aggravates it, so started running just last week!

I'm an on-again-off-again runner. I took at Chi Running class several years ago and try to focus on a mid foot strike. That seems to help my cranky knee and hip.

Weather is my biggest challenge right now. It's 5AM and 83 degrees.

I'm really trying to remember my Chi running techniques myself, Dogmama!

I ran 3 miles on Tuesday afternoon and it was significantly less dreadful than the last time I ran that route a little over a week ago. Either I am improving, or it was just the cooler weather (or maybe both?!). Tonight I'm supposed to do another 3 but I'm doing my "long" run for the weekend tomorrow afternoon instead of on Saturday, so I might skip tonight's run (or make it really short).

I'm having issues with my right quad. At first it was the inner quad muscle and I couldn't figure out a way to stretch it. Now that one seems fine and I'm having issues with the outer muscle on the same leg. I've never had quad issues...ever. And why only one leg? This IS the leg that was non-weight bearing for so long last year, so maybe it's from that? Weird.

Hi Guys,
just doing a drive by. Congrats to all of you for lacing up those running shoes again. Just remember that consistency is key, be patient and have fun. It will get better quickly if you stick with it.

Catrin, I have a friend that is a PT, and her suggestion for heel issues is to try one of those simple inserts you can buy at the drug store. There are several different types. They are inexpensive, fit in multiple types of shoes and usually do the trick. My hubby is having a heel issue right now and I got a Dr. Scholl's gel heel thingy for him. He said he felt a difference right away. Worth a try. My PT friend says that even a tiny lift can alleviate issues.

It was a hard call between trail running and riding this morning, but I decided to hit the trails. My goal was at least 45 minutes at a light jog on the trails, running more than walking, and to target an average heart rate of at least 125. I succeeded on all but that last one, while I spent 32 minutes in my middle heart rate zone, my average HR was only 119. I think this means my body is adjusting, but I wasn't running fast at all. I was running a split (on average) of 2-4 minutes and walking 1-2 minutes at most. I wanted to run longer than I did but one of my calves started bothering me so I called it good and walked back to my car.

Rocknrollgirl - thanks for the suggestion! I don't think the problem is actually in my ankle/foot. I THINK the problem is my posterior tibial tendon and where it wraps/inserts - I've noticed this same problem in one way or another since my heel osteotomy/ ankle ligament repair/reattachment and am taking measures to address it. Some serious calf, heel cord, bottom of the foot, dorsiflexion and anterior tib work should help this. I AM pleased to note that after my 45 minutes on the trail this morning it wasn't worse than when I started. I suspect I needed PT after the surgery and it wasn't even suggested at the time, but that is water under the bridge. I am currently working on all related soft tissues and focusing on NOT walking like a duck.

I AM pleased with how my heart rate behaved, and it was a pleasure to run in the woods. My neck/shoulders also felt better than after 45 minutes on the bike :(

Have I mentioned how much I love my Brooks Cascadias? I feel so...stable as far as traction is concerned :)

I tried to have someone take a video of my running today with the Coach's Eye on my phone. He was successful, but I can't see how helpful it can be as I think it is too blurry. Perhaps my video taker was too far away as I've found this very helpful with looking at my form for front squats.

I spoke with my coach today, who admittedly doesn't coach running and he won't tell me anything because he is afraid he will tell me wrong because this is outside of his area of expertise. He did give me a couple of exercises to focus on that will hopefully help me to use my legs properly in running. Apparently a lot of people want to run with straightish legs...who knew? I also have Brian McKenzie's "Power Speed Endurance" and have been watching some of his beginning to run videos.

EDITED: video removed - it wasn't very helpful anyway and I've found a LRS who has free video gait analysis available...

Catrin, you are making me think about running again.
But, I haven't even been riding enough this year...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crankin

Catrin, you are making me think about running again.
But, I haven't even been riding enough this year...

---

The riding problems, and increased tolerance for track running, were both involved in getting me more interested in running. Since posting that video yesterday I've learned there is a LRS who has free video gait analysis available and I am thinking I want to take advantage of that. I just want to make certain that I don't have some major correctable fault in my stride that is contributing to that problem with my left foot like swinging my leg out or something. I've been doing some work meant to increase the mobility in that foot which seems to be helping :)

Also, it is a lot quicker to get ready to run than it is to ride. Two of my sleeveless jerseys serve well for running ;)

If I can get a decent night's sleep tonight, I think I might hit the gym in the morning for some long and low jogging. The point is to stay in my 2nd heart rate zone for 60 to 90 minutes, which almost sounds like active recovery after this morning's workout. We will see, it depends on how well I sleep.

Catrin, are you planning to jog continuously for 60-90 minutes? IMO, that's a lot to bite off for a new runner. I had to build up for quite some time to even get to 60 minutes, and I don't think I'm atypical. Remember that you need to give your muscles, joints, ligaments, etc. time to adapt to running or risk an overuse injury--even if your form is otherwise good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indysteel

Catrin, are you planning to jog continuously for 60-90 minutes? IMO, that's a lot to bite off for a new runner. I had to build up for quite some time to even get to 60 minutes, and I don't think I'm atypical. Remember that you need to give your muscles, joints, ligaments, etc. time to adapt to running or risk an overuse injury--even if your form is otherwise good.

---

Yikes, I wasn't detailed enough. I meant to jog a bit, walk a bit. I can jog 400 meters without a problem so my goal is to do that - then walk long enough to rest my legs/let my HR go down a bit. Basically what I do on the trail but on the indoor track outside of the 90+ temps this week. I will listen to my body regardless. There is no way I can run continuously for even 20 minutes right now - but I've gone up to an hour of mixed run/walking without significant repercussions. I will be paying close attention to my heel.

Hmmm; even if you do 3 minutes of running, i.e. one lap at roughly a 12 minute/mile pace, followed by 3 minutes of walking, that still amounts to 45 minutes of running over 90 minutes. Maybe I've just had to be super cautious, but I think that may be too much for where you are. Obviously, you are in the better position to judge how you feel, but I know from personal experience that an overuse injury from running can develop rather quickly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indysteel

Hmmm; even if you do 3 minutes of running, i.e. one lap at roughly a 12 minute/mile pace, followed by 3 minutes of walking, that still amounts to 45 minutes of running over 90 minutes. Maybe I've just had to be super cautious, but I think that may be too much for where you are. Obviously, you are in the better position to judge how you feel, but I know from personal experience that an overuse injury from running can develop rather quickly.

---

hmmm, good point. I will be cautious and shoot for 45-60 minutes rather than 90. I have done that on the trail so that should be ok - especially as there are no hills on the inside track :) If I need to cut it short then I will! I do tend to want to bite off more than I should...

I wound up not going this morning...Wednesday is between my two killer group training sessions so I've a rule that I can only workout on Wednesday IF I am not sore/fatigued from Tuesday AND I have had a GOOD night's sleep Tuesday night. I woke every hour on the hour...sigh...so no exercise this morning. I will do this Friday afternoon if I don't ride very early Friday morning.

We had a special workout today for Labor Day that was nothing short of epic. The last section of the workout included quite a few 50 meter sprints, I lost count. Lots of exercise before and after each sprint but the running was far from as a painful as it once was. My heel was no worse at the end than the beginning so apparently all of the work I've been doing to that calf and heel is helping :) I must also say that I wasn't all that concerned with actually sprinting, and was just running. I had just completed something like 35 fast deadlifts and 70 box jumps (7 sets of 5 deadlifts + 10 box jumps and that wasn't the beginning) - no way was I going to really sprint. I've another session tomorrow morning and want to be able to move :o

It's been too hot to run outside but I hope to hit the trail at least once this week.

Doing great Catrin!

One tip on the video ... I don't have the expertise to comment either, but it was hard to see much from the angles in the clip you posted. The way they do it in the ChiRunning workshops is in a circle with the videographer in the center. Start with your back to them and run the radius so they record you straight on from the rear, which will show your hip stability - turn and run the circle while they pivot in place and record you from the side, which will show your posture, foot strike and hip rotation - then turn and run towards them while they record you from the front, which will show your arm swing and shoulder stability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Doing great Catrin!

One tip on the video ... I don't have the expertise to comment either, but it was hard to see much from the angles in the clip you posted. The way they do it in the ChiRunning workshops is in a circle with the videographer in the center. Start with your back to them and run the radius so they record you straight on from the rear, which will show your hip stability - turn and run the circle while they pivot in place and record you from the side, which will show your posture, foot strike and hip rotation - then turn and run towards them while they record you from the front, which will show your arm swing and shoulder stability.

---

This is good to know, the trainer helping me wasn't sure what he was doing either - which made two of us :)

Planning a trail run tomorrow morning :) while my left heel/ankle will likely never feel like my right the mobility work I've been doing has had a significant impact. I will go to a mtb trail in a new park and see how things go! Hopefully I will have a good followup report

Hope you had fun, Catrin! I may give running a go again this fall, especially when it gets too chilly for me to feel like riding. I am not a big fan of riding in cold weather, nor am I a fan of running in hot weather. But running in cold weather (as long as not too cold), I can handle. We shall see -- it's been almost a year since I've run at all. My last run was October of 2012. I just lost my running mojo in Belize and couldn't get it back.

With all of the traveling I've been doing for my mom I've not run outside of group training since the first week of September. I wanted to ride today, but my hip flexors are still TIGHT from the 1,700 miles of driving in an 8 day period, though they are loosening I didn't think it wise to choose an exercise today that won't help that...so when it was time to take an exercise break from my apartment packing activities I chose to lace up my trail running shoes.

I cut back on the time and in the end only ran 20 minutes - but the vast majority of that time was actually running rather than walking :) A slow pace, and when my body started complaining I stopped. I had hoped to keep my heart rate in the middle zone for the run but I wasn't apparently running fast enough, or the terrain wasn't challenging enough to get it there. I consider this a GOOD sign that my body is starting to tolerate this better. Tomorrow I will hit the gym and do some strength-cardio-metabolic work - and I will ride sometime in the next couple of days. Lovely afternoon for a run, even if it wasn't a very long one. I DO think that is the longest I've ever run however, at any speed!

That's great, Catrin! My heart rate is always very high when running even on the easiest terrain, so running always feels a lot harder than cycling. I think you have good potential if you were able to run 20 minutes without your HR getting too high. Shows you can probably run a lot more as your body becomes more tolerant of it. When you first start to run, it takes time to get the tendons/ligaments etc. used to the motion, so it's best to increase time/mileage slowly anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

That's great, Catrin! My heart rate is always very high when running even on the easiest terrain, so running always feels a lot harder than cycling. I think you have good potential if you were able to run 20 minutes without your HR getting too high. Shows you can probably run a lot more as your body becomes more tolerant of it. When you first start to run, it takes time to get the tendons/ligaments etc. used to the motion, so it's best to increase time/mileage slowly anyway.

---

Agreed! I know I've a "wonky" knee, so that is even more of a reason to take this slowly. I've noticed, however, when my coach has had us suddenly do major sprinting that it was never my knee that troubled me but other things. Riding has always been good for that knee but perhaps smart trail running will be good for it as well!

My HR barely got over 120 which really isn't in what I consider my training zone (125-145), so that was good. Time will tell! I am now more thankful that my Sugoui MidZero and AmFib tights don't have chamois ;) Well, the latter is more for just hiking and riding, with my asthma I don't see lots of outside running in cold temps.

We did ascending run laps with little weights in the parking lot at the gym this morning. Did 3-8 laps for each set.
I felt good, but I do better when I can see the end!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crankin

We did ascending run laps with little weights in the parking lot at the gym this morning. Did 3-8 laps for each set.
I felt good, but I do better when I can see the end!

---

Ascending in number of laps, weight or both?

Ascending in laps. We started at 3 and went up to 8.
When I got my ACE certification (back in the olden days; I was in the first group to do this) we were taught never to do any impact aerobic moves with weights. I use 3 lb. ones, while everyone else uses 5 and 8s. I really don't see the point, but I do it. I did notice that all, including the very fast tri-athlete, were running slower than usual.
However, I do enjoy the evil one's class a lot more when she does stuff like this, and more cardio, in general. She always praises me during these segments, but it's almost like she's saying, "Oh look, the old person can actually do something better than the others."

The weight part is interesting, my coach won't allow us to run with them. I doubt my neck and shoulder would appreciate that.