Heads up!
After 40+ years of no worries about cycling through red lights in Central Park (during car-free hours only) the NYPD has begun to target cyclists in spandex.
http://gothamist.com/2011/02/11/is_2...for_bicycl.php
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Heads up!
After 40+ years of no worries about cycling through red lights in Central Park (during car-free hours only) the NYPD has begun to target cyclists in spandex.
http://gothamist.com/2011/02/11/is_2...for_bicycl.php
What do motorists get for running a red light?
They get t-boned :cool: They have steel and side curtain airbags.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melalvai
I'd consider it a warning. Could be a far worse penalty :rolleyes: :eek:
I can't find that info anywhere. It's probably less than $270. The NYPD is specifically sending a message to recreational cyclists in Central Park. This isn't about safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melalvai
Edited: I just found out it's $270 for a car + an $80 surcharge and points on their license.
There needs to be a safe way to cross the street in Central Park, and right now, there isn't one.
There is literally no place to cross where you are safe from cyclists who don't slow for anything -- including wheelchairs, crutches and strollers. And cyclists aren't shy about yelling at other cyclists who slow or stop.
The level of hostility toward speeding cyclists in Central Park and Riverside Park is staggering, and the rejoicing over this recent crackdown is considerable.
I know it's popular in this group to say "cars are worse"; but honestly, in this case, they aren't. Most cars stop at red lights; in Central Park, bicycles never do.
I don't know what the answer is; I'm sympathetic to cyclists who want to train, but the park needs to be safe and pleasant for everyone, not just cyclists.
I don't know what the answer is either. I gave up doing laps in CP a few years ago because it's just too dangerous with the oblivious pedestrians walking down the middle of the road even early in the morning (when I used to do laps) or off leash dogs running into the road. Now, I stick to the top of the park to do hill repeats. Only two traffic lights there! I go through the park to get out of the city and when I come back. I use my cycling time there to practice my slow speed cycling and bike handling around obstacles in the road (pedestrians and daydreamers). :D
It's only going to get worse as the weather warms up and more cyclists of all types use the park.
What really bugs me is the selective enforcement. I guarantee that the NYPD is not going to ticket the tourists on rental bikes with helmets dangling from the handlebars when they go through red lights, or pedestrians jay walking all over the park. Or runners going through the red lights. No one uses the crosswalks. Sigh.
Leash law enforcement is nonexistent in Central and Riverside Parks.
I want to know why this law enforcement zeal isn't directed at delivery bikers, who effectively never obey any law.
Interestingly, There are efforts in some places to reduce the fine for cyclists running stop signs.
I advocate reduced fines for cyclists recognizing that the are far different potential implications for an offending car vs an offending bike.
However, I remain an advocate of cyclists obeying road signs.
Our city council had a blitz on cyclists using a park last year. It has very wide paths and is located at the end of a bike route. $250 per time. There was a protest last week, reflecting both the size of the fine and the stupidity of the decision, when we could easily give the outer paths to cyclists and the inner ones to peds (if only they would read the signs :rolleyes:). That said, some cyclists don't ride sensibly around peds, but it's usually wildly exaggerated ime and far less lethal than motorised vehicles.
I saw a very bad incident yesterday where a cyclist going much too fast simply mowed down an elderly man who was crossing the bike path completely legally. The man was in a crosswalk where cyclists are required by law to stop for pedestrians. The cyclist called out the classic New York "heads up!" and the pedestrian was toast.Quote:
Originally Posted by oz rider
I don't know how badly the man was injured -- he was conscious, at least, but he had facial injuries and I wouldn't be surprised if his nose was broken.
It's a very bad, crowded spot (Chelsea Piers for those who know the area) and why cyclists don't slow down there is beyond me. I'd love to see the Central Park ticket blitz moved to that area, because most cyclists don't slow for pedestrians, let alone stop.
I hope we all remember that we need to be careful of pedestrians, and that we will all be old and infirm one day.
I was so tempted to take a photo of this bloodied elderly man lying on the ground with the young, healthy cyclist crouched near him. I didn't want to violate the victim's privacy, but it was a stunning visual example of why so many New Yorkers hate cyclists.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
The Chelsea Piers section of the Westside greenway is very dangerous. I stay off the whole Westside greenway because it's just too stressful (with pedestrians walking on the bike path) and not an enjoyable ride for me. Too bad since it is so nice once you reach upper Manhattan. Hope the injured person is okay. I hate those cyclists, too. Makes me so mad when I see this stuff happening.
The NY DOT is going to begin an ad/awareness campaign aimed directly at cyclists. NOT at pedestrians, skateboarders, bladers, or motorists. The message will be "Don't be a jerk." Pretty much in those words. The senior policy director of the DOT, Jon Orcutt, spoke at my cycle club's January meeting and told us this. A couple days later the ticketing blitz began.
FYI: http://www.nycticketblitz.com/
wow. Central Park has changed a lot in 40 years!
Not really. You can still smoke a joint or have sex in the park. You just can't blow through a red light on your bike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biciclista
I'm personally very careful around peds, whether they are old, infirm, oblivious or anything else. It sounds like the education and enforcement is under way.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
It's sad there is so much hate. We didn't even have that towards the truck that crushed a woman cyclist here this week.
It's not sad if you think of it as part of the transition from cycling being a renegade, slightly outlaw culture to a part of normal, everyday life.Quote:
Originally Posted by oz rider
Cyclists have to grow up. It's time to stop whining about being singled out, and time to stop pointing out something a driver did every time the subject of safe cycling comes up.
When New York's stringent anti-smoking laws came into effect, a lot of smokers pointed out that it's ridiculous to forbid smoking when we are all being choked by fumes from cars, and anti-idling laws are never enforced . I wonder how many cyclists would agree with that logic?
As far as Central Park, which was the original subject of this thread, everyone who uses the park feels picked on by any form of law enforcement. There is outrage over tripods being forbidden on the lawns, over euthanasia of rabid raccoons, over the hawks' favorite tree being cut down due to disease. It's always something.
One of our bird photographers zealously documents illegal drug use in Central Park. It's quite funny. I wonder what Holden Caulfield would make of the whole thing.
http://palemale.com/ildruseincep1.html
I can see when there are cars allowed in the park, we should stop. But when there are no cars..? I was there on Thursday night and I saw one cop i think near the 7th ave exit around 8pm. I never realized how many lights there are in central park until I hit every.single.red.light.
Again, well spoken, Pam. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
That video tells the story well, in 2 minutes, I got it. I would find that pretty frustrating.
That is a great blog! I almost crashed too, at the end of a decent, having to stop.
If any of you are in groups or have influence on other cyclists, please ask them to help preserve the relative peace of Riverside Park.
I am very worried that the exodus of fast cyclists from Central Park will mean an increase in problems in Riverside as cyclists go toward NJ. There's already a requirement that cyclists dismount in one area of Riverside, and this is entirely the result of cyclists going much too fast for conditions.
Several of my park friends also fear the Central Park nightmare is coming our way, and I doubt we are alone. The pedestrians who are blithely labeled "clueless" and "oblivious" by cyclists are, in many cases, people who live in the neighborhood. They consider the speeding cyclists an unpleasant intrusion into a beautiful area they have treasured for decades. Their complaints about fast cyclists are virtually identical to the complaints cyclists have about automobile drivers.
Please, please, please remember that Riverside is popular with little kids and older people who want to bike slowly and safely. They have every right to a pleasant and peaceful environment.
If you can prevent even one person from flying through Riverside shrieking "heads up!!" I will be grateful.
http://www.change.org/petitions/nyc-...clist-petition
CENTRAL PARK CYCLING PETITION
Dear New York City Officials:
We respectfully demand that the City of New York enact a reasonable exception to the traffic rules of Central Park, similar to the “off leash hours” exception afforded to dog walkers, to allow cyclists to legally ride through Central Park’s traffic signals at times when they can do so with complete safety.
Specifically, we demand that a policy be implemented whereby Central Park traffic signals shall flash yellow at all times and places where its roads are closed to motor vehicle traffic, unless a crosswalk button is pushed by a pedestrian. If a crosswalk button is pushed, the signal will turn solid yellow, then red, and then return to flashing yellow. A standard interval would be in place to ensure that the signal flashes yellow for a minium amount of time in between button presses. When traffic signals are flashing yellow, cyclists are permitted to ride through with caution.
We are grateful for the efforts the City has undertaken to make New York City more friendly to cycling, but we believe that the current enforcement initiative in Central Park is unnecessary. Innumerable cyclists have used the Park without strict enforcement of traffic signals for decades with general safety.
We, the undersigned, believe that this is a fair and reasonable compromise that will balance the interests of all the Park’s users, reward safe cycling, and increase overall safety by making traffic signals more useful. We invite further dialogue on this matter; please contact NYCCyclistPetition@gmail.com at any time to schedule a meeting.
Just signed it! :)
Some good news:Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
"While Central Park cyclists are being forced to slow down, cyclists in Riverside Park received good news in the form of a compromise from the Parks Department regarding contentious dismount signs along the path connecting West 72nd Street and Riverside Drive with the Waterfront Greenway along the Hudson River. After months of debate and issues with people removing the signs or ignoring them, Riverside Park Administrator John Herrold announced to the Parks Committee that new signs will soon require cyclists to proceed at walking speed and yield to pedestrians, but not require them to dismount."
http://westsidespirit.com/2011/03/02...-central-park/
Wonderful! At least there's a spirit of compromise.
I hope cyclists cooperate, and I wish the city would enforce the law that prohibits dog leashes longer than six feet. ETA: The controversy in that area had a lot to do with a small dog park located nearby.
I have a sentimental attachment to that spot because it was my "practice hill" when I first bought a bike.
http://www.nycc.org/message-board/ac...ral-park/50270
Your presence is requested at the Central Park Precinct Community Council Meeting on March 14.
Massive attendance by NYCC members, by all cyclists who care about Central Park will make an impression here.
Date: March 14, 7pm.
Place: Unitarian Church, 160 Central Park West at 76th Street
I saw a motorcycle cop pull a cyclist over on the Hudson River Greenway just north of Chambers St. this afternoon.
I don't know what happened, but the cyclist later caught up with me and she stopped at every single red light on the bike path, which no one ever does. I'm guessing it was a ticket or warning regarding traffic lights.
Of course, the unlighted delivery bikers going the wrong way on dark streets tonight were, as far as I could see, unmolested by law enforcement.
http://www.streetsblog.org/2011/03/1...k/#more-253023
I was at this meeting. The NYPD Central Park Precinct officers will continue to actively target "spandex" cyclists in Central Park while looking the other way re speeding motorists, tourists on bicycles going through red lights, and jaywalkers.
Some local politicians (Scott Stringer and Gail Brewer) showed up vowing to support ending the red light ticket blitz and working to change the red lights to flashing yellow when cars are not allowed in the park.
DOT is the key to changing the lights. They were invited to the meeting but no one showed up.
Well then..... that sounds rather unfair.......Quote:
Originally Posted by ccnyc
Eden, the problem is that cyclists do laps at speed when Central Park is very, very crowded. They travel in packs and they yell at pedestrians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden
Is it fair that a child learning to ride his bike with training wheels has to put up with this? Remember, in the city, he has nowhere else to ride.
Is it fair that an elderly woman with an oxygen bottle and a rolling walker has to cross the street in fear of groups of cyclists going 20+ mph?
Is it fair that ordinary cyclists like me have no choice but to cycle past the aforementioned woman, because there is nothing I can do to help her? Even if I come to a dead stop for 20 minutes, the road is wide and it won't matter. There could be a speeding pack bearing down on her, and I can't stop them.
Is it fair that a few cyclists who want to train can inflict annoyance and anxiety on literally hundreds of people?
With hills, curves and crowds on the street, you can't see them coming, even if you know they might be there. And tourists, of course, don't know to watch for them.
Ironically, it was reading this forum that turned me against the Central Park cyclists. How many threads are there pointing out that it isn't safe for a cyclist going fast to stop?
I'd never thought about that since I don't go very fast. But now that I know, my question is: what are these people doing in a crowded urban park at 2 pm on a sunny Sunday afternoon?
As I stated earlier, I don't know what the answer is, but the situation as it existed was untenable. I do hope that something can be worked out to give cyclists more freedom during the early morning hours. That would be a reasonable accommodation.
Not all cyclists in "spandex" who ride in CP do this. In my experience most don't. Just because I'm on a road bike and wear lycra-infused clothing doesn't make me a danger to old people and toddlers.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
How about the numerous, wide, paved walking pathways all throughout the park? Cyclists are the ones who have no where else to ride. We must stay on the roadway, especially in CP.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
Living in their own, self-absorbed world, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
One of the suggestions at the meeting was about educating everyone, cyclists, tourists, pedestrians, bladers and skateboarders on the basic rules of the park and how to use it safely. Everyone agreed on this, even the CP Precinct Captain.
ccnyc- cycling safely in spandex:)
I never said a word about Spandex. I did mention speeds in excess of 20 mph -- not sure why that would inspire you to discuss your attire.Quote:
Originally Posted by ccnyc
Anyway, it doesn't matter if "most don't" cause trouble. The fact is that some do, and they are a problem.
I don't doubt that you are a safe cyclist. I am a safe cyclist, too, but I am willing to acknowledge that cyclists cause a lot of problems in Central Park. Law enforcement cannot base their decisions entirely on you and me.
Central Park paths are clearly marked "No bicycles." Are the rules different for children on smaller bikes, as is the case on sidewalks? I don't know.
Even if children are allowed on paths, they have as much right to the roadway as you do. Cyclists talk a lot about laws aimed at protecting "vulnerable users." Shouldn't we be equally concerned with protecting people who are vulnerable to us?
If Wishnia figures out a way to educate tourists, I certainly hope they ship him downtown.
It's never a good idea to assume anything (and I wish I hadn't :)), but the cyclists I thought you were referring to tend to be riding road bikes and wearing the spandex/lycra type of clothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PamNY
CC - I quoted the statement about spandex clad cyclists, so technically Pam's response was aimed at that....
Pam - I find you verge on the hysterical on this subject.... I obviously haven't witnessed any of this first hand, being several thousand miles away, but the statistics I've seen indicate NYC has an average of 1 serious bike/ped incident per year (motor vehicles take 250 each year). Should even that one happen, no, but is it an raging epidemic that needs a serious crack down..... eh... probably not.
Eden, I am indeed in the verge of hysterical, and proud to be there. How else could I respond to people who don't understand that going 20+ mph in a very crowded area is a bad idea?
And you want me to pretend the problem is their clothing?
It's almost hard to figure out how to respond to that as it has little to nothing to do with why I made my original comment.....
They are on the road no.... the speed limit isn't under 20 is it.....
The actual subject I was talking about, is whether or not there should be a huge crack down on red light runners.....
My comment was about whether nor not *bias* to ticketing a certain type of cyclist for doing the same thing other types of cyclists and motorist do is fair or not (which is certainly is not - crack down on everyone or no one!).....
The compromise posted by CC seems entirely reasonable to me and still allows for red lights when someone presses the crosswalk button.....
Pam - for me your wild hysterical ranting tangents don't help your case.... they make me discount you as a bit overwrought and exaggerating about the raving, wild packs of crazed racers who are running down little old ladies in the park.... I'm sure the case is somewhere in the middle -I'm sure there are problems and yes I've encountered some real jerks going too fast in crowded places too, but its not like people are mowed down all the time either.....
Not to worry, Eden. This is just a typical New York conversation. We have 1,600,000 people living in a land area of 23 square miles. Conflict is to be expected. I will, however, dial myself back for this group.
It's possible that some good will come of all this in the form of better auto enforcement; of course, I won't be happy till private cars are severely restricted in Manhattan, and Central Park is entirely car-free. But I'd settle for better enforcement of the speed limit.
Ccnyc, I strongly encourage you not to mention this Spandex business outside the cycling community.
Birders are gleeful over the crackdown in CP; cyclists have been getting on their nerves for years, and they are a cranky bunch. Last night I presented the theory that the issue isn't speeding cyclists at all, but rather that NYPD has mobilized itself to rid the park of Pearl Izumi. People were doubled over laughing. The comic potential is so great I almost felt bad about using it (but not quite:p),
The “Flashing Yellow Light” bill of City Council Members Rodriguez and Gentile has been submitted for introduction at the next City Council meeting this coming Wednesday, March 23.
The steps of City Hall have been reserved for a Press Conference at 1:00pm (sharp).
The bill's sponsors have asked us to be there in the largest numbers we can possibly muster.
If you at all can, your presence will be valuable.
Arrive at 12:45pm on Wednesday so the conference can begin at 1:00 pm.
The council meeting itself begins at 1:30....so it'll be short.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/blogs/go-h...blic-Safety-Is...
NBC News Excerpt citing Bicycling magazine's Bob Mionske:
"And when it comes to the most serious consequence of breaking traffic laws -- deaths -- cyclists, Mionske argues, bear hardly any responsibility. While 18 of the 269 people killed in crashes in New York City last year were cyclists, no figure could be provided on how many of the total deaths could actually be blamed on cyclists because they were "so insignificant a factor."
Everyone has a duty to observe the traffic laws. They are an essential component of public safety and should be enforced. But what’s happening in New York is different—the traffic laws are being strictly enforced against cyclists, while pedestrians and motorists get a pass to continue to ignore the traffic laws."
Bob Mionske"s blog
http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadright...-bicycle-wars/