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Would you let your 13 year old daughter do this? I wouldn't.
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http://www.theoceans.net/news.php?id=18593
Would you let your 13 year old daughter do this? I wouldn't.
I would. :)
Karen, daughterless
I just read the article and the only thing standing in her way are the Dutch authorities...who think she won't be learning enough. Sheesh. Any 13 year-old who is savvy enough to sail around the world on her own is probably better educated than 90% of American 13 year olds. And I don't mean book learnin'.
Karen, still daughterless and now disgusted
yeah well... she is only 13 years old. The government uses the 'excuse' of school to protect her from herself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
What will she do when she encounters pirates? When she has heavy storms... the only real open sea experience she has is crossing the canal, that's not the same thing as an ocean. You can hardly get 4 hours sleep every night (a kid her age needs at least 10 hours per day). She is just a kid you know.
Pirates wouldn't bother her, she doesn't have anything they want.
I think you have a point, Papaver, she should cross the mediterranean first, and see what THAT's like before she tries the open seas.
Well, I wouldn't let MY 13 year old daughter do this, but my daughter (currently just 10) seems to have the judgment and planning skills of a, um, a thing with no judgment or planning skills. I was going to say "squirrel" but realized that they have pretty good planning skills. She's just scattered, can't focus on any one thing for more than 30 minutes, and has never shown the persistence it takes to really master a skill of any sort. So I can't imagine her, in three years, having what it would take in the way of skills, inner resources, strength and determination to take on a task like that.
That said, I wouldn't be against the idea in general if the 13 year old in question DID have what it would take to make a journey like this. The article said that two 17 year old boys are finishing up the journey, and they started at age 16. IME 13 year old girls and 16 year old boys are roughly at the same point in development, and I'd imagine that any kid whose parents would let them do something like this is already significantly more mature than most. I don't think a thing like schooling should be a consideration. Yes, she wouldn't be attending school, but someone out on a boat in an ocean these days is able to communicate pretty well with people on shore, so I'm pretty sure she could keep up with her parents overseeing her education from a distance. And even if she couldn't, frankly, missing a year or so of school isn't the end of the world--she could make up the year when she got back.
And about the pirates? How is being five years older or ten or 30 any more of a benefit if you're sailing solo anyway? You're going to be completely vulnerable to them on your own no matter what your age and avoiding them would largely be a matter of luck.
Sarah
Maybe mentally the 16 year old boy and the 13 year old girl are the same, but physically? I don't see her repairing a sail or a mast in the middle of a storm. :eek:
I wouldn't let her go for two years, a kid that age goes through huge changes mentally and physically. Heck, she doesn't even know what she wants in six months time. If she was 15-16 that would be different. But then she wouldn't break the record... http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/s...onfus/n015.gif
She is probably an excellent sailor, and probably can cope with most expected equipment failures. I don't know that much about sailing, but I didn't think sheer brawn made that much of a difference. She could be as strong and capable as a petite adult woman.
But - and I say this as a mother of a 12 yr old boy, not girl - I really cannot see any 13-yr. old having the imagination, and resourcefulness, and the understanding of her own limitations, and the ability to judge other peoples intentions - to safely handle many other, unexpected situations. When I was 13 I was Superwoman. Nobody could tell me what I could or couldn't do, because I could do everything. I wildly overestimated my own abilities, and conveniently ignored any results to the contrary. Isn't this why kids aren't allowed to vote, or marry, or hold jobs?
I don't quite know that I agree with that... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Biciclista
Well put. I teach in middle school and have the pleasure of working with some amazingly gifted (in many ways) students. I wouldn't want any of them to go on an extended journey like this alone. There are too many variables, and a 13 year old simply cannot reason through all the risks.Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
I'd say that this situation is analogous to "informed consent" in the medical world and how a minor is considered to be, simply, not capable of giving such. Thus, it falls on the parents shoulders, and I don't believe that parents should allow their child to take such extraordinary risks.
Yes, I agree with you completely here. I can't imagine that She can imagine just how long a year ALONE would be!Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
It's TWO years. :D ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Biciclista
My little niece works for a center that gives shelter to young girls that are victims of sex/people traffickers. Believe me, a 13 year old blond virgin, is excellent merchandise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biciclista
:(
I have a 13 year old daughter. She's capable, smart and independent. She is pretty well organized, makes plans for the future and has somewhat recently acquired a level of empathy I never thought she would have (which I am really happy about because that was a big gap for a while there). We give her a lot of freedom and independence because she's earned it.
There is NFW I would let her do something like this.
ummmm she's a 13 year old girl - just being one she is something they very much likely want...... I think it would be *very* bad if she encountered men of that type alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biciclista
Isn't one of the primary motives of the pirates to kidnap for ransom? I'm assuming they would think they could fetch quite a sum for a 13 year old girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by papaver
This sort of reminds me of 10-15 years back where there was a 7 or 8 year old girl that was trying to be the first 7-8 year old to fly across the US (with her father & coach in the plane). But anyways, there was a crash and they all died...
And her mother was tearfully proclaiming that the girl had died doing what she loved to do and what she wanted to do... Really, a 7-8 year old had independently made it her life's goal to become the first 7-8 year old to fly across the US?
I think most kids can dream about sailing around the world, and don't need to dream about being the youngest one ever to do it. I think adults plant those types of ideas.
but anyways, if it were my daughter - if she was annoying and all teenager like, hell yeah, I'd let her sail around the world. Maybe she'd be over her angst before she got back. But if she had angst, she probably wouldn't want to sail around the world.
There's a lot of people that don't let their 13 year olds stay home alone - we definitely don't let our 13 years olds live alone for 2 years... and if parents did leave their 13 year olds to live alone, they'd probably be thrown in jail and have their children taken away from them... So, I really don't think she should be allowed to do it now... And I really don't see how it would be anti-climatic to make her wait till she was 16-18 to let her sail around the world solo... I mean, she's still getting the opportunity to take 2 years to sail around the world!
As the mother of an 11-year-old much like Sarah's 13-year-old, I have to agree with her. As I was reading, I was thinking, "Oh, h*ll no."
I just came off a two-month road trip with my daughter where she and I drove across the country and back together. We did it last summer, too. I highly recommend this kind of bonding trip, and if we were sailors, I might consider a long voyage with just the two of us, but to let her go off alone? Capable sailor or no, she'd need to stop in ports along the way, and those ports are rife with exactly the kind of people I try to shield her from. I don't even want to think about what pirates would do to a young girl alone on the open sea.
No. No. No.
Roxy
Sounds like she's abandoning her dutch citizenship in an attempt to get away from their authority:
http://trueslant.com/bartbrouwers/20...ail-the-world/
I don't know. Skipping two years of girl teenage angst.
Where do we sign up?
In 1985 Tania Abei did it at age 18 (though I had thought she was younger but apparently not.) Her story was chronicled in Cruising World magazine and as I recall was fraught with "stuff" happening. She eventually wrote a book about her adventure, called "Maiden Voyage."
I think a really really gutsy, and able 18 yr old is pushing the envelope here. A 13 yr old? This sounds more like an adolescent's motto - "I want... I want."
Tania's articles were fascinating. Just reading them fulfilled my wanderlust. There is a LOT of ALONE time on a boat.... After the excitement wears off, and the first storm on the open ocean, I'd expect many potential round-the-world sailors to call it a day and limp home.
A 13 yr old? Sheesh. I'd have to say NO if it were my daughter.
=======================
From Amazon - Reviews of "Maiden Voyage"
From Publishers Weekly
Challenged by her German-Swiss father, an 18-year-old New York City bicycle messenger in 1988 became the first American woman, and the youngest person, to sail alone around the world. In this jaunty account of her journey, she veers between the perils of solo sailing, her relationships with her separated parents and the death of her mysterious mother. Aebi, writing with freelancer Brennan, reveals her lack of sailing knowledge and experience, describes the heavy seas and weather she endured, her numerous problems with malfunctioning equipment, the countries, people and cats she encountered and a sympathetic French-Swiss whose boat sometimes accompanied her own. The story is so compelling that sailing enthusiasts will read avidly on to the triumphant finish. Literary Guild alternate; author tour.
Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
From Library Journal
This is the story of an 18-year-old New York City girl and her exciting solo circumnavigation of the globe on a 26-foot sloop with only a cat for company. Aebi had little previous experience, so most of what she learned was "on the job" and from people she met en route. One of the most appealing aspects of this particular single-handed sailing account is Aebi's naivete and the caring response that she encountered all over the world. Her 27,000-mile, three-year trek is usually attempted only by practiced sailors, and her survival was achieved by pluck, inventiveness, helping hands, and a good deal of luck. Armchair sailors will cheer and dream a little and veterans may only shake their heads. Recommended.
- Susan Ebershoff-Coles, Indianapolis-Marion Cty.
Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
Wow... One of the companies I worked for brought in Neal Petersen for a motivational speaker. (he wrote Journey of a Hope Merchant). He was a poor kid from South Africa (mixed race, I believe), who managed to build himself a boat and enter one of the world's prestigious solo around the world races. Man, the stories he told about being on the sea alone - the things that happened to his boat that he had to repair, the storms he had to deal with and the sheer loneliness of being that long by oneself - and he was in a race. I just could not imagine wanting my daughter to experience that.
My daughter is 16 and she's intelligent, strong, resourceful, creative ... But sailing across the Atlantic and Pacific is a far cry from sailing across the North Sea. If anything happens, she could be days from rescue. And the pirates - oh she's a juicy little tidbit. Heck, there's a reason I won't let my 16 year old walk in areas of downtown San Jose by herself - let alone purposely navigate her way through pirates?! I know the alternative is Cape of Good Hope which is very treacherous but seriously.
I believe that this girl is as mature as any 18 year old. Growing up on a sailboat makes her responsible and mature for her age. My husband and I have spent time sailing in the caribbean and these sailing kids are amazing! I would let her go, and knowing the technology available today, she is only a phone call or GPS track away.
ok, ok, i stand corrected. I was just thinking if i was a Somali pirate I would be looking for huge tankers and rich cruise ships, I might not even care about a little sailboat. But I guess I get tired of people thinking 13 year old girls need more protection than 13 year old boys. 13 year old boys would be good meat too.
I wouldn't let either a boy or a girl of mine set sail FOR TWO YEARS at that age. She might be the greatest sailor in the world, but she's still a child and lacks the maturity to make good decisions in life and death situations.
NFW.
NFW.
NFW.
No matter if my kid is a rocket scientist, a rockstar, and has the sailing skills of Captain Bly. It is the OCEAN. You make a mistake, you get sick, you encounter lusty pirates, you are vulnerable as an ADULT.
NFW, and I believe in letting them take risks and become independent. But not this. This is why there ARE laws, because parents like this actually CONSIDER letting a CHILD take such risks. TWO YEARS!! NFW.
Just FWIW, a friend of mine and his family sailed this route. It was incredibly risky but they had THREE competent, skilled sailors in the wife, husband, and teenage son. They went equipped with weapons for the very real possibility of pirates, and the whole thing took almost three years to plan. Listening to them plan it out, I can't imagine a child doing this alone.
NFW. DId I say that?
a phone call or a gps track is still a long ways away when it's in the middle of the ocean and you have to call the right person to manage to divert the closest ships or helicopters to go find her.Quote:
Originally Posted by kermit
I have a 13 year old daughter and she can be amazing: responsible, kind, organized and mature. She can also be completely dependant and irresponsible, you never know what you will get with a 13 year old girl.
There is no way I would ever let my daughter do anything that would take her away for 2 years she still needs parents everyday.
As a New Zealander (the citizenship she is trying to get) I am really upset that she thinks our government and social agencies would be so stupid to allow her to do this.
The NZ government denied permission to a solo canoeist/kayaker who wanted to go around Antarctica on his own as the NZ government would have to pay to bail him out in a rescue mission if he departed from NZ shores.
It puts NZ in a bad light....
My goodness, and here I'm worrying about letting my newly-licensed daughter drive herself 5 miles to school...
I thought the comment someone made in response to this article was right on:
Although I have to admit Dove is still one of my favorite books...Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen Dukess on Bart Brouwers web site
I would just like to say that we're not talking about ANY of your real or hypothetical children.
We're talking about a girl with a very specific set of skills, resources and experiences. She was born while her parents were spending 7 years sailing around the world together and living at sea. She has been asking to do it since she was 6 years old. I read up on it, and there is actually ANOTHER 13-year-old girl from Australia about to take off on her own voyage around the world.
These are not just any girls. They are unique, in unique circumstances (rich, maybe?). How could they NOT do what they were destined to do?
I always think it is interesting that a parent "lets" a child do something out of the ordinary that others always think that it hasn't been thought through or researched, etc. Do you think they haven't thought about pirates? Schooling? Repairing the boat?
I certainly wouldn't want to be the one who stood in their way, on some totally assuagable and compensable fear.
Karen
Are they actually rich? I got the impression that the Netherlands girl has sponsors that are willing to pay for her trip... Since it's going to be a "record"
chances are, those sponsors won't be there when she's 18 or so... Personally, I think sponsorship of those records are irresponsible... after this girl or the australian 13 year old does it, is it okay for a special 11 year old with a specific set of skills who was destined to do it, to set off alone to sail around the world?
Is she actually destined to sail a boat around the world while she's 13 or is she just destined to sail a boat around the world at some point? I don't question that she knows how to sail, I just question why when she's 13?
True, but the OP did ask if we would let our daughters do it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
I don't know if she's rich, but there must be some kind of affluence to live on a boat for 7 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catriona
Maybe their destiny is to make people talk about the issues inherent in the idea. I don't know. But I think they should proceed as the way opens, and not let anyone stand in their way if that's what they really want to do.
Karen
That to me is absolute proof that she really is in her puberty. She thinks she can get away with anything. The type of 'if mom doesn't say yes, I'll ask dad' syndrome... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Catriona
I wouldn't worry about that. It would be good for her to travel to NZ and than get a NO GO too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Stoker
And about all the gizmo's she has on board to get in touch with her parents... well sadly they have an OFF button.
So if the parents say: That's it. It's too dangerous, come home.
Our 'adult' teenager just has push the off button and do whatever she pleases. Every one with a teenager at home knows what I'm talking about. :D
She can be a heck of a good sailor, but don't tell me she already has the capability to assess people and danger for that matter. Kids take crazy risks all the time. They just don't see danger like we do.
Well after I have seen and heard a couple of interviews with that girl, I'm conviced. She really sounds like a 13-year old girl. She doesn't seem adult to me.
And an extra detail: her parents are divorced, the girl lives with her dad. Dad is very enthousiastic about the trip, mom doesn't want her to go at all. But she doesn't want to say no because she's afraid she will never see her daughter again. :eek:
I am totally, totally against this line of reasoning. There is supporting your children, letting them spread their wings and fly, and providing a safety net of guidance, support, shelter, and knowledge to help keep them safe until they have enough life experiences to go it alone and deal with the problems thrown at them. A 13 year old has simply not been on this earth long enough to go it alone ON THE SEA, alone, for two years. It doesn't matter how extraordinary the circumstances behind their upbringing. For these kids, their skills alone are extraordinary, so hone them, give them guided experience, allow them to do the incredible things they do within their scope and experience within reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
The risk to reward ratio is wrong here. An error, a mistake, an accident is far, far amplified to what it would be where help was more readily accessible. Again, training for such a feat is one thing. I can see someone going with her, alongside her, ready to step in should conditions or circumstance warrant and letting her do it on her own otherwise.
I would have a problem letting my 16 year old daughter go away for two years. Mostly because I would miss her. She's going to be going away for college anyway, so I want to spend whatever time I can get with her now.
After hearing about the broken marriage, this sounds like the ultimate in your face from the father to the mother;
"I'll take her away from you for two years - and you won't dare to say a word because you don't want to lose her"
classic tearing the kid up to get back at your spouse kind of behavior. :(
Besides the obvious danger involved, I think the isolation for one to two years is a huge reason not to allow this. Not many of us, and certainly not a thirteen year old, have any concept of what being alone for that amount of time would be like. Sure, there will be some type of communication devices, which can easily not work for periods of time, between her and her dad, but
at age 13 she needs interaction with peers, other adults, the world.
This sounds like a goal of the dad's which the daughter has bought into to please him. I'm sure he is counting on a book, movie deal, and all the money that will come from the publicity he can squeeze out of exploiting his daughter. :mad:
Would we allow a thirteen year old to live alone in a tent on a mountainside for a year or two if he or she is a really good camper and really, really wants to do it? Would we even allow a mature thirteen year old to live alone in an apartment or house for a year or two? No. It is not healthy. This is a time when young teenagers are developing socially (as well as physically, mentally and emotionally). Being alone in the middle of the ocean is not conducive to the development of a healthy teenager.
LMAO.Quote:
Originally Posted by sfa