Saddle Fit: Tests, Tips, and Tricks

I thought it might be handy to start a thread of the various saddle fit stuff we know; gather it all together in one easy-to-find spot. :D


The Cut-Out Test

Sit on the forward half of a wooden chair while wearing only undies. Keep your back straight, hinge at your hips and fold forward until you can rest your elbows on your knees. (you are making a triangle of your thighs, upper arms, and straight torso)

If your girly-bits feel smooshed into the chair and uncomfortable, you might need a cut out. If the wooden chair is dramatically more comfortable than your saddle, you might need a wider-at-the-cantle saddle or a less padded saddle.

Too Much Pear-Shape Chafing Pattern

Chafing in the inner neighborhood of the lower fold of the buttock, top-of-the-leg, panty line, hamstring attachment (however you want to describe it) seems to rear its ugly head on saddles that are too pear-shaped for the motion of your hip joints.

Bless You! I hit the wall yesterday and now have a very sore girls bits. It was very hot and I did about 12 miles (previously only about 8-10 a day) and there was lots of on and off for stopping to run errands. At my average 6 mph speed, that's almost two hours in the saddle.

By the end of the day I didn't just want a cutout saddle, I wanted one of those donuts to sit on.

So, my 62 year old body is searching for solutions. I'm using this saddle now.

Update: Ignore the two saddles I've listed below. Emily in nc has shown me the error of my ways and I continue the search beginning with her wonderful suggestions.

I'm contemplating the Adamo Typhoon as well as the Selle Respiro. That's as far as I've gotten in the search of saddle info here and on the net.

I know I DEFINITELY need a cutout, a very narror horn (or minimalist horn), something wider than a racing saddle, AND gel padding. And naturally I want it to be as lightweight as possible. I'll definitely spend the extra bucks for this combination.

I'll continue to watch TE threads and hope to find something to be able to make it to a 20-30 ride.

Okay ladies, let's cure world hunger AND finally, finally, design fully functional women's bicycle saddles that fit us in our various needs.

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Originally Posted by pardes

I know I DEFINITELY need a cutout, a very narror horn (or minimalist horn), something wider than a racing saddle, AND gel padding. And naturally I want it to be as lightweight as possible. I'll definitely spend the extra bucks for this combination.

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Hi pardes,

From a quick look at the two saddles you mention considering, I'd rule both of them out immediately based on your criteria. The Adamo is quite odd and has what looks like a very wide nose and narrow rear. It looks incredibly uncomfortable to me! Seems like the wide nose would chafe your inner thighs and the rear may not be nearly wide enough to support your sitbones properly. The Selle Respiro is the heaviest, widest saddle I've ever seen. 495 grams is VERY heavy. I don't think you'll be happy with it.

How about a tried-and-true Terry Butterfly? Or a Selle San Marco Lady Gel Flow? These are very similarly shaped and sized saddles, and to my rump, are very, very comfy. They certainly don't work for everyone, but when I was in a bike club, the Terry Butterfly was by far the most popular/loved women's saddle. I'd think you'd have a much better chance of success with either of these -- they're plenty wide for most gals at 160mm, have a narrow-enough nose, a cutout, are cushy enough but not so cushy you sink in, and they're lightweight.

Good luck in your search!

Emily

Sitbone Width and Saddle Width

Don't go for a saddle narrower than your bones, you'll be resting on soft tissue and pelvic floor muscles rather than on the bones. (exceptions for tri saddles and extreme aero saddles, of course, where you are more on the pubic rami than the ischial tuberosities)

General rule of thumb: get a saddle with 1-2 cm wiggle room to either side of the sitbones. As you shift positions, climb and descend, turn, etc., you will be moving your pelvis relative to the saddle. Also, if your bones are the exact width of the saddle, you will be perched on the frame of the saddle rather than on the nicely engineered "sit spots" of the saddle.

[QUOTE=KnottedYet;353256]Sitbone Width and Saddle Width
Don't go for a saddle narrower than your bones, you'll be resting on soft tissue and pelvic floor muscles rather than on the bones. (exceptions for tri saddles and extreme aero saddles, of course, where you are more on the pubic rami than the ischial tuberosities)QUOTE]

Wasn't Ischial Tuberosities the point of view character in Moby ****?

Thank God for the bike pros around here. emily in nc saved me from buying a tractor seat.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Too Much Pear-Shape Chafing Pattern

Chafing in the neighborhood of the lower fold of the buttock, top-of-the-leg, panty line, hamstring attachment (however you want to describe it) seems to rear its ugly head on saddles that are too pear-shaped for the motion of your hip joints.

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I think this is a great thread... but I'm confused, because ***I*** get lower-fold=of-buttock/top-of-leg/panty-line discomfort from saddles that are too T-shaped, not saddles that are too pear-shaped. ?????

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Originally Posted by liza

I think this is a great thread... but I'm confused, because ***I*** get lower-fold=of-buttock/top-of-leg/panty-line discomfort from saddles that are too T-shaped, not saddles that are too pear-shaped. ?????

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Cool! You're the first I've heard from who has that happen! I was wondering if this was only a pear phenomenon, cuz what I'd been hearing about too T-shaped was how the back of the thigh feels like it slams into the saddle. Can you write up a description of all the signs and symptoms from riding something too T-shaped?

(I only know pear-shape problems cuz that's how I suffer, and it seems to be the more common complaint; so we really need to hear how someone can tell if their saddle is too T-shaped. Please, please, pretty please??)

Okay, here goes. If your saddle is not in the right place you will also get chafing and burning. case in point, I put my saddle on someone else's tandem and did a 10 mile ride. I was in agony. I moved the saddle back just 1" and it fit me nicely again. In my case, we're talking about a very T-shaped Brooks B67 saddle.

Body weight, or overall size, is not necessarily a direct correlation to saddle size. Meaning, a very skinny gal can still have wide sitz bones, and a fuller curvy gal can still have narrower ones. I've encountered this misconception many times with lbs sales staff trying to buy a saddle. Thankfully for TE, I knew otherwise!

Saddle-y Websites

Wallingford Bicycle Parts. 6 months return period on Brooks saddles. www.wallbike.com

Sheldon Brown (RIP) talks about saddles. http://sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Bike Cult saddle museum: http://www.bikecult.com/works/saddle.html

Bontrager's saddle research page. http://bontrager.com/technology/the_...e_of_inform/en

Topeak's saddle line (Allay) home page, with links to the Allay saddles and research and info pages: http://www.allaysaddles.com/

Scholar Google engine for searching the medical literature for an in-depth look at specific issues: http://scholar.google.com

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Bontrager's saddle research page. http://bontrager.com/technology/the_...e_of_inform/en

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Hmmm...almost a contradiction in terms. :D

Well, we all know my opinion of Trek/Bontrager's latest "offering" in saddles from what I saw at a seminar in San Francisco earlier this year, and my further opinion after tracking down their research.... but I'm trying to be impartial. ;)

My addition:

Don't be afraid to try saddles that aren't labeled as women's saddles. Look at size, cutout/no cutout, and shape.

I've been riding for a little more than 2 years, and I've been through at least 15 saddles. There's nothing wrong with any of the saddles I tried except that my underside didn't agree with them.

One woman's perfect saddle is another gals implement of torture. When you find the perfect saddle buy 10 of 'em (sure as I'm posting the mfr. will decide all it needs is more fluffy padding). Saddles you love to hate? Sell 'em on TE. There's someone here who loves that saddle.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

My addition:
Don't be afraid to try saddles that aren't labeled as women's saddles. Look at size, cutout/no cutout, and shape.

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+1
In 30 years I have never been able to ride comfortably on any saddle that was labelled as women-specific... I've always found some men saddles that were perfectly comfortable, but never a women one.

I've learned from TE that my Bontrager saddle needed to come off my new trek right away! I rode it once (got a little chafed), then tried my husband's B17. I determined I wanted the B68 and ordered it. While I waited, I put the stock Bontrager back on. MORE DISCOMFORT. When I got home, I looked at it closer--there is a bump in the most comfortable spot--a woman's most sensitive spot--CHECK IT OUT. I'm now convinced it's a medieval torture device.

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Originally Posted by TxDoc

+1
In 30 years I have never been able to ride comfortably on any saddle that was labelled as women-specific... I've always found some men saddles that were perfectly comfortable, but never a women one.

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Do you have a narrow sit bone width (just curious)? When I went into my less-than-beloved LBS, they measured me for a 130 mm Specialized saddle (the narrowest width for women. I sat on that silly oozy contraption. Does that mean they are figuring for the 1-2cm on each side of your sit bones?

What men's saddles have worked best for you? :)

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Originally Posted by Ana

Do you have a narrow sit bone width (just curious)?

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Yes :)

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Originally Posted by Ana

What men's saddles have worked best for you? :)

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Let's see, my all-time favorites are:
1-SSM Era arrowhead (124mm), LOVE LOVE LOVE that one!!! :D the Era is my 'travel seat', I take it with me to use with rental/borrowed bikes when I have to travel - just to make sure that my ride is going to be comfortable!
2-SI SLR gel flow (130mm), love that one too!!!
3-I just got a SSM aspide carbon superleggera a few days ago (there's a thread here in the favorite saddles with my comments about it), 130mm too, and it's really fantastic (and 120 grams!!!).
Another saddle I liked (I got to borrow it for a couple of months from a friend) is the AX lightness phoenix (125mm). The weight is like 60 grams or less, great saddle, but it was like $600 so totally out of my saddle budget! ;)

Ooooops! I forgot one of the questions...

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Originally Posted by Ana

I sat on that silly oozy contraption. Does that mean they are figuring for the 1-2cm on each side of your sit bones?

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In theory when they measure you they should give you one value and one range:
1-your sitbone width.
2-the range of saddle width that you may find comfortable given your sitbone width (a little wider, yes).
:)

My sb's measure about 125mm. Love my 132mm Ariones. Found Fizik's "women's performance" saddle, the Vitesse HP, a bit wide, and likewise found BF's old 143mm Specialized Alias too wide in back.

My anatomy does not get on well with cutouts at all. I'm much more comfortable without one...

BF is currently riding a Selle Italia Flite Gelflow (about 130mm). It's ok, I think I'd do better on the SLR if I were going to choose a Selle Italia saddle.

Start with a Brooks by leveling the NOSE, not the entire saddle.

The cantle (the bit at the back) will rise slightly higher than the forepart of the saddle.

Don't forget there is a cantle plate under the rear of the saddle. When you sit on the leather, it hammocks under your butt. You end up sinking a bit lower at the slightly higher rear of the saddle, essentially bringing the hammocking bit down to about the same approximate height as the nose, BUT ONLY WHILE YOU ARE ON IT.

If you level the saddle from tip-to-tail instead of at the nose only, you may end up with some pain in front.

First check all the obvious suspects: loose clamp, squeaking springs (if you've got 'em), creaking frame joints under the cantle.

Then check the not-so-obvious nose end. All that hardware at the tensioning bolt can creak. And the real odd bit to check is the half-ball and socket joint (yes, there is one) at the very front of the saddle. The easiest way I've found to oil that joint is to squirt oil on it from the back half. That is the cause of probably 99.999% of the creaking of my B67.

Nose creaks can propagate through the frame and sound like they are absolutely positively no-doubt-about-it coming from the back of the frame. Don't forget to check the nose!

I may need to run to my LBS to get that gel. I have a Terry Butterfly that starts to get uncomfortable after 1 1/2 hours of riding. I assume it will be around 7". I wear a size 12 when I'm in good shape. Right now, I wear a size 14. So I have those good birthing hips. KnottedYet, I'm checking into the Brooks saddles that you list. Those are wider and may work for me.

Pants size and hip width have very little to do with pelvic outlet diameter, it's seems weird but it's true.

There is a thread somewhere with a gajillion different ways to measure your own bones, you don't need to go to an LBS and sit on their butt-o-meter. You can do it yourself with just a tape measure.

Terry saddles are generally on the wide side. Your saddle may be wide enough, but the shape or the padding may be causing you problems.

Before you buy any saddle it's a good idea to get your measurements (try a few ways of measuring) and puzzle out what about your current saddle is causing you the trouble.

Start a thread with your measurements, your current saddle, and the problems you are having; and I *guarantee* you will have several folks chirp up with suggestions to help! :D

Thanks, I'll do that. In looking at saddles, the wider ones always seemed so soft. I tried one of those and after a half hour (can't remember the brand, I sold it), the softness was getting to me. So I figured all the wide saddles were meant for people who wanted soft, gushy rides. I like a saddle that is a bit firmer. So I figured the medium-wide saddles were best. The Terry feels better than the squishy one. But after a 1 1/2 hours it is not comfortable.

The Brooks saddles interest me. The B-67 is a wider saddle, but a firm one. I'll get those sitbones measured. I'll send the kids outside so they don't think mom is whacked out.

Just because a saddle is wide doesn't mean it has to be soft and foamy/gel/cushy. Brooks B68=perfect example of a WIDE saddle that is VERY firm with NO padding.

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Originally Posted by pardes

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I'm contemplating the Adamo Typhoon as well as the Selle Respiro. That's as far as I've gotten in the search of saddle info here and on the net.

...

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See, I love my Adamo Typhoon. I rarely have soft tissue soreness, and then it's because of the padding of a pair of my shorts, I'm pretty sure. It suits me perfectly, but it doesn't work with the geometry of my bike, a Specialized Ruby Comp, and I get really numb hands after just a few miles. I did 20 miles on Sunday and I could barely operate the brake when I was headed back to my car.

I need a different configuration, I think. The Adamo is moved as far up as it will go, so I can't move it any more to take pressure off my hands (and DH warned that I would get soft tissue soreness because of the move putting more pressure on my girly parts than they get now).

The Terry Butterfly, this is a good one?

Roxy

re: Terry Butterfly
I bought one, used it only once. Sold it right here on TE.

the answer: not good for ME.

Rox, you might not want to give up on the Adamo on your road bike yet. I've found that any new saddle really changes the way I sit on the bike, and thus the fit - even going from a Spec Lithia to the very similar but firmer Jett required a couple of tweaks. So if you really love your Adamo, you might consider springing for a bike fit with that saddle.

Current Terry saddles don't work for me either - they're quite wedge (pear) shaped. They're quality saddles and a lot of people love them, but it all depends on whether it fits.

I just got a new bike with a Specialized Lithia Saddle. My old bike had a Specialized Jett, which I used I used for over a year and a half without problems

After two rides (55 miles total), I feel like I'm getting more pressure in soft tissue toward the front, and some irritation along the panty line- both a big change.

I had a complete fit before taking the new bike out of the shop, but did not ask to have my old saddle put on the bike.


Any opinions on whether it is more likely the new saddle or more due to position of the saddle and/or different bike geometry and my position on the bike?

My opinion - both.

The Lithia is squishy and more likely to cause soft tissue chafing and pinching.

When I switched from a Lithia to a Jett, it really changed the way I sit on the bike, and I had to tweak the stem, handlebar tilt, and lever placement, and IIRC the fore/aft placement of the saddle, too. So if you were fit on the Jett, you might have to re-do the fit to be happy with the Lithia.

You wouldn't think it from how similar the saddles look, but that was my experience.

The Lithia was the first Specialized saddle I tried. The squishiness made for considerable soft tissue pressure for me. I switched to the Avatar (a little less squishy than the Lithia) and those problems went away. I ended up with a Ruby on my road bike (not at all squishy) because it has a lower profile*, and I love it.

* (Because of the way the seatpost and seat tube are shaped/work on my bike, I needed those extra millimeters to perfect the fit. It was cheaper to switch saddles than try to get my hands on a new seatpost.)

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Well, we all know my opinion of Trek/Bontrager's latest "offering" in saddles from what I saw at a seminar in San Francisco earlier this year, and my further opinion after tracking down their research.... but I'm trying to be impartial. ;)

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Knot, can you expand upon this, a bit? Reason I ask is that I am finding my beloved Jett is giving me fits on my new bike. I LOVED it on my relatively upright Synapse, but on my SuperSix I'm getting pinched, up front. At least I think it's my saddle. It could also be due to the tights I'm wearing over my shorts (I'm just dying for warmer weather so that I can switch to knee warmers...this is the neverending Winter here in MI). But I am suspicious that it's because I'm relatively more aero on the new bike (in addition to more aggressive geometry I now have a 2cm longer stem, which I should have had on the previous bike, too...yay, I can ride in the drops, now!).

Last night I had DH tilt the nose of my Jett down a hair, but it didn't do much to alleviate the discomforts in my girly parts, since it made me start sliding forward too much--if anything it gave me more issues, since I was struggling to keep my sit bones on the rear of the saddle and was bearing more weight on my privates, instead..

I've been eyeballing that Bontrager Inform RL saddle, since I think that dip would work better for me than a sharp cut-out. I'm also looking at the Fizik Arione Donna. The footprint looks similar to my Jett and that long channel looks like it might not pinch and jam my labial bits quite so much.
http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/ima...s%20Saddle.jpg

But I can't find anyone who has tried this saddle...so I am leery. Our LBS carries Fizik and has test saddles...but I'm not sure if they can get test saddles in the women's models, or not. I have only seen them in the men's styles. I can't find any evidence that Fizik offers any sort of guarantee, unlike Specialized and Bontrager.

Bumping for Knot's input... :D

bump! (that saddle does NOT look comfortable)

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

bump! (that saddle does NOT look comfortable)

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In what way...I'm having a hard time finding any reviews of it (I think it's only been out for a couple of months). I'm thinking it looks like it might be really hard on the sit bones, if anything.

well, it seems to have your sit bones on the edge, and then the saddle itself is more pear shaped then T shaped.

I thought it looked really pear-shaped, too, but I played around overlaying it in Photoshop with a photo of a Jett 143 and the shape doesn't seem as different as I had thought. It's a mere 4mm wider at 147mm, so it's pretty close in size (I don't think my sit-bones would end up on the edge--my sit bones are somewhere in the 125 neighborhood when I use a tape measure). And apparently those flex wings are designed to crack and break-in to fit an individual rider's leg movement requirements...so maybe it wouldn't feel as pear-shaped as it might at first appear.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1239682381_CnqVP-O.jpg

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

That picture is great!

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Thanks...sometimes I get my dork on in a big way. :o:p