here's a link to the five women chosen. anyone we know?
http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=mess...rvptrvsqzoubln
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here's a link to the five women chosen. anyone we know?
http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=mess...rvptrvsqzoubln
When I first saw that pic, I thought they were all related.
(like, ooh, look, Trek found a whole family of sisters who ride together! How spiffy!)
maybe they should change the name of that campaign to White Women Who Ride. At least they have some age diversity.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
Maybe no one of color responded . . . did you ever think of THAT?
Instead of finding fault, why don't we read their stories and be glad they found Trek and bike riding?
I think it would be kind of cool to read about a whole family of sisters who got into riding.
Bicycling or some other mag had a great article about a little red bike that was passed through a bunch of families and neighbors and all these kids learned to ride on it.
(BTW, the NAACP link in my sig is not a reference to the Trek Women Who Ride. I found it before I saw this, and since I'm a big butch fagg*t I got all happy to see the NAACP supporting my rights as well as everyone else's, and posted the link.)
You mean like DoW and me? Well that's just two...add her daughter also therefore my niece UK....three....Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
You are? Well, taller than me :rolleyes: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
Since I'm 51 I was glad to see age difference. I would have liked some weight difference too. There are a few who've lost quite a bit and kept it off cycling but where are the women riding and flourishing with an extra pound or two?
There's a theory in design when you want to show diversity "show everything or show nothing". Not just people-type-diversity but the cafe that serves a variety, the store that carries everything etc. You show allllllll the stuff....or you show an abstraction like an abstraction of food or store items.
With people that can end up like the ads for a clinic in CA that serves a variety of people, the poster was on the side of the bus with 30' long line of every type of person. But yeah, coulda been better.
Then I thought WTHeck. Nice try, maybe the next group. Still nothing compared to the wit and wisdom of TE ..... and came back here.
This is where the "women who ride" really are. :cool: Long live TE :D
I do find the whiteness troubling. It's pretty striking. Heck, if not a single non-caucasian person applied, they really should have fabricated someone :mad: or waited to publish the article until they could recruit someone. I live in what is very possibly the least diverse state in the union and I have met a number of non-caucasian cyclists in the past year (all of whom live here), so I doubt the task is impossible.
So we can't forget that this is, at the bottom line, a marketing piece. But even if the largest market segment is still white, I still have this pollyannaish attitude that business, like politics, **should** as a gesture of goodwill towards the consumers, current & potential, that keep it afloat, strive to reflect as inclusive a community as possible.
yeah, I'm pretty naive.
I suppose it's possible that it's simply an oversight, though that seems hard to believe given what Trek likely spends on marketing. And, frankly, in this day and age, as far as diversity is concerned, sins of omission are just as offensive as sins of commission.
(getting off of high horse...)
For about a nanosecond. The odds are highly unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by kjay
Liza and Trek expressed it well.
You are joking about that right??Quote:
Originally Posted by liza
Im sure most "non-caucasian" cyclists would be offended by that.:confused:
Regardless of color, I just want to comment that I am so inspired by Marie, the 60 year old widow that started cycling!!!
Surely I expressed that badly, and I apologize if I offended anyone. The idea that I wanted to express was that sometimes its necessary to take proactive measures to ensure diversity (though, of course, not extending to fabricating it!). Actually, I think in most public settings, it's not simply "sometimes" necessary but always necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekhawk
But I don't want to be too harsh on Trek. I'm glad they are doing more to cater to women riders.
Right here with an extra forty or so pounds. Cycling for two years and still plus-sized. I feel discriminated against, also. Not feeling welcome in groups...the sideways glances...a few remarks on cause rides...the inability to find pretty and functional clothes, much less clothes that actually are cycling clothes that I can squeeze into.Quote:
I would have liked some weight difference too. There are a few who've lost quite a bit and kept it off cycling but where are the women riding and flourishing with an extra pound or two?
I was very glad to see a couple of women there who look like they weigh more than 100 pounds. Somewhere along the line I was "sold" the idea that if I started cycling, I wouldn't be fat for very long. :( It didn't work and I feel somewhat militant about the fact that heavier people can be in excellent shape.
Sorry...I'm new here and don't mean to hijack y'all's topic.
Right here in the back of the pack militant with ya! No apology needed, you're right on the topic. Welcome to TE!Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady
Oh, and the clothes thing? .... Check the selection right here 8-)
www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53
yeh i would've liked to seen at least one heavier bicyclist. but it's trek, they're trying to sell bikes, so they need to sell the image that if you ride you will eventually look like so-and-so.
i'm glad they did the project and hope it turns out ok.
so far it seems every other outfit that wants to do a "women who ride" type of thing end up concentrating on fashion and cookbooks and other redbook-type concerns. i dont care about fashion or cooking or makeovers, i just love to ride. i love aching lungs and burning thighs. i love fast descents. i love the feeling of riding and i wanna do it all the time. that's why i'm here at TE.
that's why i wanted one of us to be one of the trek women.
as for the people of color, i dont think you should force diversity for diversity's sake. they only chose 5 women. forcing them to select one black woman, one hispanic, one asian, one native american, one i-apologize-for-not-including-your-race, it really wouldn't be about the women who ride. it would be tokenism at best. i dont need to see someone of my race or even my gender to identify with them. when i'm struggling up a mountain i feel like i'm alberto contador, i picture him in my mind, i identify with that picture.
i'm going to wait and see if this "trek women who ride" ends up being about real women who ride, i'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
I'm glad to see at least *something* from a big company that really draws attention to women who cycle, but, yeah... I gotta say I didn't appreciate the lack of diversity. Not only are they all white, but they are super-white! Not even a black hair among them. (I'm a latina with black hair...)
On this page: http://www.trekbikes.com/women/ it says, "Five women just like you..." Oops! :o
I've been thinking about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by rij73
Have you ever seen an ad for bikes on television on any channel other than versus or ESPN?
I would think TV advertising would be an effective tool. There must be women who would love to ride but feel intimidated. Seeing a woman on a Townie or riding with her family might make it seem possible.
Not gonna happen :( I don't even think Trek or any of the other "big" bike companies have the funds for an ad campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by zencentury
It would take all of them together doing ads for cycling.
There's a ton of "product placement". Seems like every TV spot has a bike.
It's a shame... I think it just doesn't even occur to lots of adults that riding a bike would be fun, healthy, useful, etc. Someone should be able to raise money for TV ads... What about Critical Mass or Transportation Alternatives? (Though we don't have to get into a discussion of those groups and their methods!) :p
I don't know... there has to be a reason all those pharmaceutical companies use screenshots of aging folks having fun riding bikes to give off a 'healthy' image and sell their ads.... if it weren't selling their product, they wouldn't use it, so obviously folks associate riding bikes with healthy living...or perhaps it is associated with youth.Quote:
Originally Posted by rij73
The problem with marketing to and for females in athletics spans to many sports. My partner and I have been watching the current Women's World Cup (soccer) - and we are blown away by the lack of attention it gets in the mainstream area of sports. The U.S. beat England the other day in the Quarter Finals, and it was buried in the middle section of the NYTimes sports section on Sunday, with just a little blurb announcing it. It's a HUGE win, and yet - as with most female sports - it gets largely ignored.
Zen, I have been thinking about the marketing as well... I wish they would market more to females for all sorts of sports, namely biking. One could say, well, there is not a big enough market to spend those kind of advertising dollars - and yet - if one WERE to spend some money advertising it, the market would GROW. Catch 22.
So - in conclusion - yes, the Trek campaign is seriously lacking in diversity, but AT LEAST it's something. Baby steps maybe.
Seems to me they're selling to those who are already buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by slmdunc
I have been seeing a lot of the U.S. Women's soccer team with Nike but we know they have a ginormous ad budget. Probably the only coverage we'll see of them on network TV:(
Well I liked reading the following:
Quote:
Susan is best described as “A one woman show”. She made us laugh as she described her bike as her “saving grace” during her 40 months of pregnancy, 210 pound weight gain (and loss), 48 months of nursing and the hormonal battlefield she calls her bod
Quote:
“Take that Cancer!” was Jen's mantra last September as she crossed the finish line at her first Danskin Triathlon.
Quote:
An inspiration to eveyone who reads her story. Laura shares the trials and tribulations of her journey to lose the “extra person” she carried with her until March 13, 2007.
So, yes they are lacking diversity and darker hair color... but they picked 2 ladies who lost a lot of weight (that's inspirational- and a good reason to ride), a cancer survivor, and someone who is "older".Quote:
At 60, Marie has broken down more barriers to cycling than most. Her story of achievement is impressive and inspirational.
I know! I love them! It's quite on topic actually... the subject of the commercial is "The Greatest Team You Never Heard Of," and the joke is the team dealing with a new PR Director, hired to "get them noticed." Hee. :pQuote:
I have been seeing a lot of the U.S. Women's soccer team with Nike but we know they have a ginormous ad budget. Probably the only coverage we'll see of them on network TV
I have to agree with Pinkbike- trek is trying to sell bikes, it is marketing. I also wouldn't want to force diversity for diversity's sake. There are minorities who ride, but cycling is primarily a middle to upper class sport. It is a very expensive sport/hobby and not widely marketed. Our culture is focused on other sports, not cycling. It is great to see some marketing regarding cycling. I also don't need someone who looks like me to relate to. I love the Alberto Contador example.
Speaking of marketing, there is a Volvo commercial out featuring a "mom" cyclist on a journey of some sort with her husband as the sag driver of a volvo. Cute commercial, and shows cycling.
Bicycling magazine has been critized for using models, instead of real cyclists. They too are trying to sell the image of cycling.
I hope it all works out well for Trek and it is nice to see something focusing on women and that might inspire others to get out and ride.
I'm sure you didn't mean that like it soundedQuote:
Originally Posted by amymisk
It can be very expensive but it doesn't have to be. I just want to see women unafraid to ride. They don't have to do centuries in $200 shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by amymisk
But the marketing is being done on the Trek site. They're preaching to the choir. I would be thrilled to see a one page ad in Ladies Home Journal or People showing a fifty year old woman riding a three speed in the park with her family.Quote:
Originally Posted by amymisk
Yes, but it shows someone who has invested a lot of money and devotes a lot of time and treats cycling as a sport. I want to see them reach the masses, especially considering the downhill slide of the health of our society.Quote:
Originally Posted by amymisk
I hope so too, but if they only run this campaign on their web site who's gonna see it?Quote:
Originally Posted by amymisk
Ummmm...... I, like ZenCentury, am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't really mean that as it sounded too. I love the positivity on this forum so I won't delve into the implications I read in that sentence. Please just be careful when writing about such hot-button issues. You might unintentionally hurt someone's sensibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by amymisk
You know, this thread got me thinking... how many minorities do I see when I ride.
I belong to a cycling club in Dallas, TX. We have a large membership and I go on different rides around the city.
I can honestly tell you that in 3 years of riding with my club, I have only seen one African-American woman ride with us. ONE. And I only met her once.
We have one African-American gentleman that rides with us. ONE. I see him often. I also use to know 2 other African-American gentlemen that rode with another club.
I do know of one Hispanic man that rides with us on a regular basis.
Now, what is the reasoning for this... couldn't tell you. As with any "study", there are so many factors... it's hard to say what the cause is. I just know that I don't see many minorities on our rides.
If we put women in general in as a minority, I will say that the women are always out numbered by the men, unless it's a gender specific ride. In fact, 2 of my 3 rides last week... I was the only girl in a group of 6-10 guys.
I love the way folks can put out opinions and still be respectful.
I sent in my essay for "women who ride." All you had to do was send an essay, oh, and three photographs, so I would imagine they got ***lots and lots*** of applications. I noticed that the applications were due at the end of April... but entrants were supposed to be prepared to start their exciting year of touring and blogging... May 1.
I believe it was Mid-July before they made their selections - despite a couple of emails saying "we'll pick by ___" and it not happening. All the evidence says it was a committee of folks who may or may not have consciously considered The Diversity Question; if I remember right they made a point that they were looking for "all ages," and said stuff like whether we rode for a cause like environmentalism... which I considered could have been 'cause they wanted to weed those folks out ;)
There were also some pretty fundamental flaws in their website about their "women's tour" - Illinois was an "eastern state" if you clicked on it... but the events were actually listed (oddly enough ;)) under the midwest, as just one example. That one they didn't fix; I emailed the contacts about it and at least one other, which they did fix. Their site is pretty consistently flawed (and then there's the content: "Ten best reasons to commute by bike," half of which involved having "fun" dodging heavy traffic, which of course is what *intimidates* people from commuting, so I'd have to call that one a marketing faux pas ).
So. IMO, they've got a marketing budget... but not particularly good *skills* in the craft.
When I saw who was picked (only because I kept going back to the site and probing and searching - *not* because they plunked it front and center or sent it out in their email right away) I thought, "wow... those folks are poster ladies... they're the Hallmark Channel STories of cycling." Then summer was over and I've been working a lot harder and surfing a lot less - but I have wondered whether the individuals would stay Hallmarky for the whole year... and whether they would actually gather a community around them or not. I did duly notice that they were all white folks, and figured it was the usual unconsciously homogenous thinking that steered things that way.
I agree that in a sense they are singing at the choir (not even preaching... but trying to *do* at us what we are already doing) as opposed to trying to make cycling look accessible to the masses. Reckon it's up to us to do that ;)
KSH, I guess one of the reasons for what you describe could be regional. Here in Brooklyn, minorities are actually the majority of bike riders.
I have to agree. In LA, we have all sorts of folks who ride.Quote:
KSH, I guess one of the reasons for what you describe could be regional. Here in Brooklyn, minorities are actually the majority of bike riders.
I think much depends on which segment of the bicycling market you're looking at. In many metropolitan areas, you will find a very diverse cycling community, however, much of the diversity is focused on riding for transportation (ie the "invisible" cyclists). These are the folks who ride because of necessity -- transportation to work because they can't afford a car. The average price of a bike for this type of cyclist is probably less that $100.
Then there are the commuters -- folks who use their bike for transportation by choice (not by necessity). While there is still some diverstiy in this segment, you typically see more affluence (and bikes in the $250 - $1,000 range).
But many of you have cited examples from the recreational riding community. These are the folks who are riding for pleasure or fitness or competition (and their bikes typically range in the $800+ category). In that segment, we really don't see a lot of racial diversity, even in an area as diverse as San Francisco. I can definitely say that the racial diversity in our club (Velo Girls) is not representative of the racial diversity of the greater SF area. In the past six years, we've seen good representation from the hispanic/latina community, stronger representation from the asian community, but only one or two women from the african-american community.
The demographic of recreational riders is definitely middle-aged, middle-income (or above), and white.
In the brochure I picked up at the trek event, there are several models modeling clothes and bikes, all of them 110 lbs or less, and one of them a very pretty, athletic appearing African American gal with very big hair.
I am not sure that Amy meant anything mean when she said that cycling is primarily an upper middle class sport. I didn't misconstrue it at all; of course, we want everyone to ride! They don't need to be riding $5,000 carbon bikes and they don't need to be riding fast. But to get people who are currently sedentary to ride, the cycling community needs to market differently. I'm not a business person, so I can't address that.
However, when you look at the people who ride for fitness or race, it is primarily upper middle class white people, at least here in the Boston area. I belong to 2 clubs and I don't think I've ever seen an African American on any rides. I'm not sure how we can change this.
This reminds me of something that I witnessed many years ago. We took our kids skiing at Burke Mountain, which is way up in Vermont. It was not a popular place in the early 90s. Since I was X country skiing and they were downhill, we decided to meet up in the lodge. As we were getting ready to leave, we heard a very distinguished looking older African American man say quite loudly to a white kid, "What's the matter? You've never seen a Black man skiing?" We assumed the kid must have been rudely staring at the man, but everyone laughed when he said this.
Quad Cycles has a really good Cat 4 African American racer. He's a great racer and very friendly to talk to at the races as well. There is also an African American rider that lives in Bedford - I think he's mostly a commuter, but may do some racing as well. You are right though - in this area it is more white people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn Maislin
I will, however, argue, at least from a race and my club perspective, the upper middle class differntiation. We have A LOT of young, just starting out in life, racers and club members who don't have a lot of extra income, and wouldn't consider themselves "upper middle class"; likewise, trades-people/"blue collar" workers. I know a lot of riders who scrounge for spare parts, cheap, used, free to be able to fuel their passion. Not everyone is out racing on expensive bikes - a couple of racers/friends I know just bought complete 'cross bikes (no-name) for under $800 - was all they could afford. I also have friends who have just gone out and bought custom Sevens...
Here's what I LOVE about cycling - it doesn't matter to me what color you are, what you do for a living, what your social status is. As long as we have cycling in common, all of that goes out the window and is irrelevant. This is a great sport in that sense.
I do also agree with Velogirl - different levels of "cyclists" out there.
SheFly
p.s.
Robyn - DH grew up near Burke, and an African American skiing would defnitely draw some looks from the locals...
Thanks Robyn for your reply.
The trouble with writing, sometimes the message gets misconstrued or misunderstood.
I said it is primarily a white middle to upper class sport. When I watch pro racers, ride around my home, and in charity rides, in magazines, I see primarily white cyclists.
I love the sport and this site and didn't want to offend anyone. I was making an observation.
Geonz is probably right about the marketing group for Trek, have the money, need help in the skill.
I still also believe that this country doesn't see cycling as a "sport" like they view Football, Hockey, Baseball, and Basketball. If they only knew how dangerous cycling can be! I would love to see more mainstream information/marketing for cycling, but in our current society, I don't think it will happen.
I know that this is a sport for anyone and most cyclists are very welcoming and encouraging.
I applied for this as an aspiring racer. I'm a huge supporter of women's racing, and I think that the fact that they didn't pick someone (definately doesn't have to be me- just SOMEONE) more involved with racing shows how not even the big manufacturers of the sport care too much about women's racing. It's painfully obvious that they don't feel that highly competitive women are a valuable demographic to market to. Instead, they wanted to tug on the emotional heartstrings of the average Caucasian-American female who, at one point in life, has struggled through some sort of personal hardship- whether it's been body image, illness, or the like.
I think that this type of thing inadvertently discourages women from competitive cycling. I feel like they are sending the message that rather than competing with each other, we should just focus on ourselves. It's not that I don't think that overcoming personal hardship isn't an important, life-changing process. I just think it's pretty sad that they didn't include someone to represent those of us who aspire to achieve victory over our opponents as well.
Hey Andrea! I'll share with you something most industry insiders will tell you -- bike racers don't sell bikes and bike racers don't buy bikes. Meaning that a shop employee or even a recreational rider will have a much broader reach and influence the purchase of a certain brand more readily than a racer will.
Another thought is that you're already part of a sponsored team. Interesting that Trek used to be the bike sponsor for Team Kenda but now Blue is. Blue is a competitor of Trek, so it would be difficult for you to remain on your team and also be sponsored by Trek in the Women Who Ride promotion.
Yeah, I definately see how that wouldn't work out now, but at the time of the applications, I was just racing for a local team. It would just be nice to see them include at least one woman who had aspirations of racing. Women's racing needs all the promotion it can get!Quote:
Originally Posted by velogirl
you know, there are also lots of riders who are not racers who resent or don't care for racers. some folks believe that women who race (or men who race) have "attitude" and are dangerous riders (especially on the big group rides).
Lorri (I race, BTW, but wanted to mention this)