Not Exactly Maintenance

okay, so here comes the first few questions about bikes --

figuring there's more to these things than pretty paint jobs, considering the amazing variety of prices (why, some even cost more than my sewing machine!)

When Earl and I went out shopping this spring, we didn't know the WHY of price differences. Looking at two levels of the same bike, we didn't understand WHY this bike with "elite" in the name was worth so much more than the one labeled "sport." Tires were different. Knowing better now, I'd have spent the money on the bike with the Armadillos. But then, I've had like 15 punctures and he's had zero. Riding in the same spots, and he's leading the way... The shifters were different too, but we actually liked way the ones on the cheaper bike worked easier. Perhaps there will come a time... Aside from that, we couldn't SEE what made the "elite" bike better.

SO, WrensMom just got this new Bianchi beauty (the paint is LOVELY! makes me think, there, that's the one for me!) and she said it's got a triple on the front. This I get, cuz this I got on mine. But some of the road bikes don't got this? Or is it that lots of the road bikes don't got this?

Now, I GET that weight is important to roadies. I get that a triple would weigh more than just two, so that could be an issue. But for the average Jane, which is "better" and why?

The other thing I noticed -- she got "Campy." I'm guessing that this is instead of Shimano? And from what I've read here, it sounds like this is a VERY good thing -- again, why?

Then of course, there's the pedals thing. I can get the pedals and put them on this bike I have now, and later move them to some other bike I may get -- or get more pedals for that bike if I decide to keep this bike too when I decide to get some other bike some day, so it can't hurt to know the why of pedals now -- what's better about some than others? What is good for a newbie? Bike dude, when we were shopping for shoes for DPITA the other day was showing us the ones labeled SPD for the most part. People seem to write a lot about getting stuck in these buggers, and falling down. It even sounds like they're all settled out of the things and STILL fall down somehow because of these pedals. I can see the value in those nasty cage things, but I hate 'em because they're clumsy and bulky and stuff. The clicky pedals that are clips but not clips seem like a better idea aside from all this tipping over they seem to make people do, SO -- what do we choose and how do we keep from falling down on what sounds like a regular basis?

So, Campy or Shimano, pedals, double/triple, hmmmm, what was the other thing -- oh, let's see, tires -- this used to be easy when I was a kid. You got a 20", 24", or 26" bike. That was all there was to know. Now they're 26, 650, 700, and several other sizes from weensy to what looks like there might actually be a tire there -- and let's dont' even get to the mountain bike tires that look like they belong on a tractor in comparison! I think I get the tread thing -- or lack of it -- but all the sizes, now there's something to be confused by! (and the whole concept of running over a little rock on the road and getting a flat tire, well, now, that makes a girl think again about the road bike issue....

Okay -- maybe that's a whole lot more to learn about what to look for in a bike than I wanted to ask at one time, but not being in any hurry, I'll take whatever information y'all have to give as it comes, and probably come up with more questions as I learn, eh?

Karen in Boise

Oh my goodness! Moving on through the forum tonight, someone else is asking questions about bikes too -- and people are talking about "tight geometry" and Carbon, Steel, Aluminum, and Ti frames -- a whole NEW series of stuff to wonder what the heck all this means!


Good thing I'm not in a hurry!

Karen in Boise

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Originally Posted by Kano

SO, WrensMom just got this new Bianchi beauty (the paint is LOVELY! makes me think, there, that's the one for me!) and she said it's got a triple on the front. This I get, cuz this I got on mine. But some of the road bikes don't got this? Or is it that lots of the road bikes don't got this?

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I have a training bike and a race bike, and they are both doubles - I don't want a triple. You will find that many women-specific/designed bikes have a triple. The triple ensures that it is much easier to climb a hill.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Now, I GET that weight is important to roadies. I get that a triple would weigh more than just two, so that could be an issue. But for the average Jane, which is "better" and why?

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With less than two years of cycling under my... shorts?... (don't wear a belt - ah, unless thats under my HRM belt) I am approaching being a "serious" cyclist according to some. I prefer a double because of vanity and because I believe I would just confuse myself with three, and by not having a triple i have to and do climb hills faster than I would/have on a triple.

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Originally Posted by Kano

The other thing I noticed -- she got "Campy." I'm guessing that this is instead of Shimano? And from what I've read here, it sounds like this is a VERY good thing -- again, why?

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This is the kind of question you would find in cars - Falcon or Holden? BMW or Merc? Porsche or Volkswagon? Its about components, materials, reputation etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Then of course, there's the pedals thing.

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The pedals that you clip in and out of with cleats attached to the sole of your cycling-specific shoes will enable you to bike faster on the flat, and give you more "oomph" when climbing. Once used to them, most people never want anything else. I have never like the idea of strapping myself in with buckles and straps - too hard to get out of in a rush - I'm not that coordinated. But with cleats you can just twist your toes and you are free (I recommend "LOOK" )

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Originally Posted by Kano

I'll take whatever information y'all have to give as it comes, and probably come up with more questions as I learn, eh?

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Keep looking round the site, Kano... use the search engine and join in convos... its a really useful site with a wealth of knowledge on tap here.

Raven

[QUOTE=RoadRaven]I have a training bike and a race bike, and they are both doubles - I don't want a triple. You will find that many women-specific/designed bikes have a triple. The triple ensures that it is much easier to climb a hill.

Training bike? Race bike? Yikes -- new things to think about again! What's the difference in the two?

It sounds to me like personally, for me, triple is good!


This is the kind of question you would find in cars - Falcon or Holden? BMW or Merc? Porsche or Volkswagon? Its about components, materials, reputation etc etc.

Oh dear -- I'm not certain Porsche and Volkswagen are apples and apples... Especially confusing is when the Dodge looks just like the Chrysler, you know, and the derailleur thingies look alike, but why does the one on the blue bike make the bike cost so much more than the one on the red bike? See what I mean? (I'm still learning about why shorts aren't shorts aren't shorts!)



The pedals that you clip in and out of with cleats attached to the sole of your cycling-specific shoes will enable you to bike faster on the flat, and give you more "oomph" when climbing. Once used to them, most people never want anything else. I have never like the idea of strapping myself in with buckles and straps - too hard to get out of in a rush - I'm not that coordinated. But with cleats you can just twist your toes and you are free (I recommend "LOOK" )

Yes, pedals - they're like, my next purchase. The sooner the better, my quads are telling me this week! Quads are doing all the work alone (so to speak) now, and I know the difference from the "cages" on my old bike. I could probably take those buggers off that bike and move them, but I don't like them in the first place. Same clutz issue, more the getting in than out, maybe. So, yes, pedals to go with my shoes is the next thing (shoes happened cuz my feet hurt in softer shoes!) I like the shoe/pedal concept --

BUT -- why do you like the LOOK kind over others? ( I'm pretty sure that this pedal question is much like the saddle question and I could get a LOT of different answers!)



Keep looking round the site, Kano... use the search engine and join in convos... its a really useful site with a wealth of knowledge on tap here.

I LOVE search engines! And while I admit, at first I was a bit shy of asking, I've decided you more experienced ladies seem easy with sharing your knowledge. I'm also noticing a huge crop of MEs in the group lately -- I don't feel quite so alone in my newness! So, I'm working with the search engine a lot, and learning lots of things that don't always apply to what I thought I was looking for!

Karen in Boise

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Originally Posted by Kano

Oh dear -- I'm not certain Porsche and Volkswagen are apples and apples... Especially confusing is when the Dodge looks just like the Chrysler, you know, and the derailleur thingies look alike, but why does the one on the blue bike make the bike cost so much more than the one on the red bike? See what I mean? (I'm still learning about why shorts aren't shorts aren't shorts!)

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The difference between two similar bikes may be the components. The wheels can also bring a big difference in price, just like a carbon versus a steel fork, etc.

With regards to the components (which are Shimano or Campagnolo and very seldom SRAM - personal preference mostly), the difference will be reliability, durability and precision.

In the Shimano line, the order goes like this, from entry-level to top-notch :)
Sora
Tiagra
105
Ultegra
Dura-Ace

Campagnolo has a similar hierarchy with names like Chorus and Record and Veloce that I never seem to be able to put in order.

There are a few things below Sora but these are the most common in quality road bikes with Shimano.

Basically, the higher you go, the less often you will have to adjust your transmission, and the more precise it will be. I often joke that my Ultegra-clad road bike shifts just by thinking about it.

Double vs. Triple: Triple means more gears to get your butt up those hills. My advice is that if you foresee hills being a problem for you, then go for the triple. Most bikes will come with them stock, and if they don't you can probably trade out the double for the triple when you get the bike fitted (if you have an understanding bike shop). I ride a triple, and every time I'm chugging up those hills on my lowest gear I thank the cycling goddess that I got a bike with a triple. Of course, if you want a double, go for a double. There's no rule as to who can ride what.

Shimano vs. Campy: That's Campagnolo, if I spelled it right. Many people favor Campy because of the quality and history of the company. On here you'll read alot about Campy shifters being easier to use for those with small hands. But I'm also convinced some people just like it cause its Italian, and well, roadies instinctively love anything that's italian. (I know it's true because it said so in that cycling movie... you know the one I'm talking about). I'll sort of equate Campy to your Mercedez-Benz or BMW of cars. The real flash guys/gals drive one. Some drive it because they know the performance and quality is the best. Some drive it because they like people to say, 'Oh, he/she drives a BMW'. And, while you get the quality of Campy (yes, just like Euro cars, Euro crafted gear costs more moolah too for the higher quality) you have to think to yourself, just like a foreign car, when you need parts in a flash (you're broken down in some podunk town where the only bike shop is a BikeLine whose section of performance bikes consists of a Huffy mtn. bike with pegs on the front and back wheels) they may be hard to come by. Shimano makes perfectly good gear, and may be a lot easier to come by in a pinch. So if you're only just getting into the sport I would recommend going with Shimano, at least until you're sure you want to make the dive headlong into being a roadhead.... er, roadie.

Pedals: Get what feels good! Yes, people fall over with clipless alot, but it just seems like more often because you're reading a website where alot of the riders may be newer. Therefore, the posts are skewed towards the learning curve. Put a pair of pedals on your bike (I use the Look style as well, and they seem perfectly acceptable) and PRACTICE. It shouldn't take longer than a few rides before you're used to clipping in and out of those suckers. Don't be timid about it, the only way to learn how to do it is to DO IT. But make sure your pedals and shoes are compatible (in simpler speak... look at the number of holes on the bottom of the shoes. Match them up to your pedals. There are two types of pedals/shoe systems. Two holes and three holes. The road shoes tend to be three holes and the mtn. bike tend to be 2. There, isn't that simple?) Oh, and I hope you don't think I'm talking down to you here, but that's exactly how the guy at the shop explained it to me when I was confused about the difference. :D

Wheels: don't worry about it! Get the kind that come with the bike, and odds are they will be perfectly serviceable (especially if you get a half decent bike). At a later point you can always upgrade anyway.

Karen, we need to go to George's bike store together! :p

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

Double vs. Triple: Triple means more gears to get your butt up those hills. My advice is that if you foresee hills being a problem for you, then go for the triple.

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I'm pretty sure the triple is for me -- got hills here in Boise, and some of 'em get mighty big! (the little ones feel mighty big to me yet too!)

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

Shimano vs. Campy: That's Campagnolo, if I spelled it right. Many people favor Campy because of the quality and history of the company. On here you'll read alot about Campy shifters being easier to use for those with small hands. But I'm also convinced some people just like it cause its Italian, and well, roadies instinctively love anything that's italian. (I know it's true because it said so in that cycling movie... you know the one I'm talking about).

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There's a cycling movie I should know about? Did I mention I'm NEW to this stuff?:D :D

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

And, while you get the quality of Campy (yes, just like Euro cars, Euro crafted gear costs more moolah too for the higher quality)

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Ahhh, European quality -- think sewing machines made by Swedish Guys! -- might be starting to make some sense!

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

you have to think to yourself, just like a foreign car, when you need parts in a flash (you're broken down in some podunk town where the only bike shop is a BikeLine whose section of performance bikes consists of a Huffy mtn. bike with pegs on the front and back wheels) they may be hard to come by.

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Again, an important consideration!

I can do that -- not too low end Shimano makes sense from the getting parts stand point as a newbie learning to love this new obsession (I can get mighty serious about hobbies, considering I have an $8K sewing machine in my collection!)

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

Pedals: Get what feels good!

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Perhaps this will sound like a silly question: How does one know that the pedals feel good?

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

But make sure your pedals and shoes are compatible (in simpler speak... look at the number of holes on the bottom of the shoes. Match them up to your pedals. There are two types of pedals/shoe systems. Two holes and three holes. The road shoes tend to be three holes and the mtn. bike tend to be 2. There, isn't that simple?) Oh, and I hope you don't think I'm talking down to you here, but that's exactly how the guy at the shop explained it to me when I was confused about the difference. :D

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Talking down? Not in the least! I know pretty much NOTHING when it comes to bikes -- I'm still struggling with that the color name for mine is "silver" and it looks much more like, oh, champagne to me! This all information that I don't have, and there's so much that I don't know that I'm not even sure what to be looking for much less what to be asking! First time we looked this spring, the sales person pretty much just said "it's the components" that make the difference in price -- but I couldn't even say for sure what "components" are on a bike! Didn't bother to find out too much more than what felt good to ride on while shopping for this first one, but you can bet before I'll spend a thousand dollars or so on a bike, I'll understand what I'm buying and why some bikes cost ten thousand! Not to mention at least knowing what questions to ask!

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

Wheels: don't worry about it! Get the kind that come with the bike, and odds are they will be perfectly serviceable (especially if you get a half decent bike). At a later point you can always upgrade anyway.

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I have a feeling it's a long while before I start getting quite that particular -- saw wheels advertised at $1K a pair the other day and couldn't believe it! On the other hand -- there are some interesting spoke configurations out there. I thought that there were just spokes evenly spaced around the wheel, but I'm seeing different now -- well, evenly spaced, but not like on my bike and any other bike I've seen in the past! Eventually, I might want to know the point of that too...

Thank you Kimmy!

Karen in Boise

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Originally Posted by Tater

Karen, we need to go to George's bike store together! :p

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:D I LIKE George's! I also like shopping!:D (Earl could learn to wish I'd never started reading bike forums...)

I would love this -- I don't know anyone who "really" bikes yet and understands what any/all of this stuff is!

Karen in Boise

Movie - Breaking Away. Somewhere in the "Rules of Being a Cyclist" it says you must watch this movie. It's on the same page as the rule of "You must fall three times in your new clipless pedals; two of those times must be in front of people"

I do believe wars have started over Campy vs Shimano.......:D :D

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Originally Posted by Kano

BUT -- why do you like the LOOK kind over others? ( I'm pretty sure that this pedal question is much like the saddle question and I could get a LOT of different answers!)

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Because they are easy to twist out of... some of the other cleats i have tried have "held on" too long... you need to try a few and practice and see what fits your foot, ankle and riding/dismounting style.

Haha. And I like Look because they were the cheapest in the store while still having a decent reputation and after practicing on them for about 10-15 minutes I had it down. I fell once with them, and that was when I was coming to a stop anyway at the end of my first training session, and after that haven't fallen. They're easy to get out of in a pinch (as I learned the other week when I took a turn a bit fast coming from a steep downhill and hit some mud/gravel, which kicked my tired out from under me. I managed to unclip both feet and get off the bike and the baby didn't even hit dirt because of that quick move!

Also, regarding the knowing what you like thing? I'm with you on that. I, too, am a new rider, but believe me that once you start riding you will learn what you do and do not like. I'm still learning, and will be for ages I think. In the beginning you won't be able to say, "I'll like this saddle" or "These shorts will work for me". Because you haven't put the miles on to know where your butt will need padding.

Also, in case anyone hasn't mentioned this, when you do get your bike you should make sure that you get a good Fitting from the bike shop boys. Ask about that when you go to shops. A fitting is basically where the guy puts you on a trainer and adjusts different things about the bike so that it fits YOUR body personally, and not some athletic ideal's body. They may shorten the stem to the handlebars, they might put on narrower (or wider) bars, different crank lengths (that's what the pedals attach to) and adjust your seat height for you. It'll make a difference. A good fit should, in my opinion, be able to predict where your problem spots are going to be (things you might be tempted to change yourself, later) and fix them for you before you even start riding.

K.

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

Shimano vs. Campy: That's Campagnolo,And, while you get the quality of Campy (yes, just like Euro cars, Euro crafted gear costs more moolah too for the higher quality) you have to think to yourself, just like a foreign car, when you need parts in a flash (you're broken down in some podunk town where the only bike shop is a BikeLine whose section of performance bikes consists of a Huffy mtn. bike with pegs on the front and back wheels) they may be hard to come by. Shimano makes perfectly good gear, and may be a lot easier to come by in a pinch. So if you're only just getting into the sport I would recommend going with Shimano, at least until you're sure you want to make the dive headlong into being a roadhead.... er, roadie.
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Karen, you started a good thread. Although i am certainly not going to try to talk you into going campy (as opposed to Shimano) I did want to add that Campy gears can be repaired and rebuilt, Shimanos must be replaced.

Karen, as you learn this, you are slowly going to the dark side. keep going.
Soon you'll be talking about top tube lengths and seatpost angles!!!
argh!!!

First of all am staying away from the Campy v. Shimano argument. It's like arguing "tastes great - less filling". Both manufacturers make low end products and very high end products. I don't think anyone can say anything bad about Dura Ace or Record. It's just a preference.

Alot of manufacturers sell the same frame but price break comes in the components and wheels. Never underestimate the value of good wheels. When someone is looking to upgrade their bike I always recommend new wheels first. Does that mean the wheels that come with the bike are bad? No. But it does mean good wheels can greatly improve a bike's (and rider's) performance).

triple v. double: This is another "tastes great - les filling" argument. People who don't need a triple cannot understand a triple's value. People, like me, who need and live by a triple understand it makes all the difference in the world. My speciality is fast flats - I'm a strong sprinter. My weakness is hills but with my triple I can climb anything, although slowly, I git-er-done.

The weight difference between a double and triple (which is the main argument I hear as to why have a double) is minimal - we are talking grams here. If you are racing and every gram counts then by all means do the double. For alot of us regular folks (who can stand to lose a few pounds or 50...), especially over the age of 40, a triple is a life saver.

Frame materials and styles: Here's where some argument is legit. To each her own. I prefer steel and Ti, others swear by carbon (which I will never ride) and or aluminum. They all have they pluses and minuses. You need to evaluate your riding style, intent and reasons and go from there. I like the flex of steel and Ti, don't like the "deadness" of carbon and hate the ping of aluminum. But that's just me.

As to frame styles, again depends on how you want to ride. You have choices ranging from a very compact, agressive stiff racing frame to a very laid out touring style geometry (think Cannondale Six13 CADD8 v. a Bruce Gordon touring bike). I prefer something in between. I like to ride hard and fast but also like to do centuries so I need a sortof agressive road bike with a good, comfortable, flexible, road feel material. Add some good, stiff wheels and I am good to ride!

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Originally Posted by bcipam

triple v. double: This is another "tastes great - les filling" argument. People who don't need a triple cannot understand a triple's value. People, like me, who need and live by a triple understand it makes all the difference in the world. My speciality is fast flats - I'm a strong sprinter. My weakness is hills but with my triple I can climb anything, although slowly, I git-er-done.
!

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Heck, I can't get off my block without a triple. I often try to imagine what life would be like to live somewhere where you didn't need a bunch of gears!!

and while we're at it, I use a Brooks B67 saddle. Most comfortable saddle in the world. But it is NOT light; and it doesn't resemble a pie spatula either!