hill repeats?

From reading up old threads on how to build speed and climbing strength, I gather the next thing for me to do once my bike comes back from CA is hill repeats. I s'pose I could also use them to learn how to hit the right gear at the right time going into a hill. I should maybe have posted this under "tips", but I figured this is the area where generous experts drop by to help out us newbies. So any tips to offer this newby? Such as:
- what kind of hill should I look for to practice on?
- how many repeats should I start out with?
- in theory, when should I be downshifting? before the hill? just at the bottom of the hill? up a ways when I start feeling the need?

I use a hill that is slightly less than a mile long and has about 3% grade. It's nice if you have an easy way to get back to the beginning of the hill and that doesn't give you too much recovery time. I don't like going up and down the same hill - don't want to irritate the people who live there, so I have a loop. But you could go up and down the same hill if it's a safe place to make u turns.

I do different things. Sometimes I try to keep my cadence really high, which means downshifting as the hill gets steeper. Sometimes I try to stay in a specific gear for the whole hill. You can focus on heart rate - keeping it at a certain level or building in intensity. Once I tried standing for the whole thing - thought my heart and legs were going to explode.

V.

You should downshift as your cadence starts to drop. Beginners may be advised to shift at the bottom of a hill to avoid getting stuck part way up in too hard a gear. But if you are experienced enough to shift on demand, don't go to an easy gear too soon. If you end up in a slightly too hard gear and need to downshift, put in a couple hard cranks, then slack off on the pedal pressure while you shift (for 1-2 pedal revolutions), then resume normal pedaling. I will typically downshift one or two gears as the hill steepens, then stand for a bit, then sit and downshift again, then stand when my candence starts to fall, then sit and downshift again. Now I'm in my lowest gear (I've only got 12 and only 3-4 lower than my flats gear) so I concentrate on maintaining cadence in that gear, but again stand if my pedal speed falls too much (though the standing gets more and more difficult). This is a workable technique if the hill isn't too too long - luckily my longest hill is only 0.3 miles though fairly steepness. For really long hills, staying seated would be more efficient.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

I use a hill that is slightly less than a mile long and has about 3% grade. V.

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How do you know what the grade is? Is it a guestimate or do you have a way to measure it? There's a good hill here that I take on every once in awhile and I'd like to know the grade of it.

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Originally Posted by li10up

How do you know what the grade is? Is it a guestimate or do you have a way to measure it? There's a good hill here that I take on every once in awhile and I'd like to know the grade of it.

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You can get a fancy computer for that, but I have a simple inclinometer which is nothing more that a level (with a bubble in it). I believe it's called "Sky Mounti" and is made in Germany. I know some LBS's carry it, but I ordered mine on-line from Circlecitybicycles.com. Cost is $25.00 plus shipping. It does not fit oversized handlebars (which I have) but I just got a couple of longer screws and added a piece of handlebar tape for padding and it works fine.

Or you could go low-tech. Find/devise a route that had lots of hills. Or ride into the wind on windy days - no glorious downhills, then. :mad:

When I helped my friend prep for her first big ride that had a lot of climbing I had her do hill repeats with me. I have a good hill that is just under a mile and maybe 4-5%... I had her ride it up and down til she said she couldn't do any more... and then we did one more :D ... with me praising her and insisting she COULD do it... and she DID :D Yeah, it hurt, but I really believe you can always physically do a little more than what your brain tells you!

To start I had her set short term goals... such as... we'll make it to the speed limit sign and you can stop to take a drink if need be, but no stopping til then... etc...

DebW is right on the downshifting... try to keep your cadence consistent til you're in your granny gear if you need it... when you down shift while climbing you need to "soft pedal" for that split second shift so you prevent dropping your chain or messing up your chainring too... not a huge deal if you don't occassionally, but over time this will preserve the life of your components...

as you get stronger follow what Veronica said... sprint it til you can't any more one day, bigger gear one day, stand one day etc.

And CELEBRATE your accomplishment... the first time my friend climbed a big hill that is well known we all cheered at the top and insisted that she whoop at the top with us. The sense of accomplishment is deserved... :)

Another good one is to time yourself on the first repeat and then try to keep your time on the next repeats the same. This really requires pacing and dropping your speed on the first one.

Practice standing for 15 seconds at a time, then 30, then 45, etc.

And the idea of doing as many as you possibly can - and then one more - is fantastic. That's one of the things I do when I do these drills with a group I am coaching.

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Originally Posted by MomOnBike

Or ride into the wind on windy days - no glorious downhills, then. :mad:

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well, i'm not sure about that. After riding into the wind for a while,
turn around. If the wind is stiff enough, you will pick up TONS of speed.

Oddly, when I turn around, the wind obligingly turns right around with me and just keeps on a-blowing in my face.

Actually, that's not entirely true, sometimes the wind just dies.

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

Practice standing for 15 seconds at a time, then 30, then 45, etc.

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Thanks for all the good tips! I can vary between doing a fairly easy hill over and over, and practicing gearing on a steeper one, then try to find a steep and long one for some serious practice in a few weeks (can be hard to find around here, though we have a few rolling hills on my side of town). Aside from the downshifting, this sounds a lot like what we've been doing on hill repeat days in spin class -- like today. There I was pumping out my last drops of energy on the final 15 seconds of the final round and the instructor says "Ok guys, let's do another minute on this hill. Whaddya say?" So I took a deep breath, turned the dial up another notch out of sheer stubbornness, and did another minute. Now I wonder what that hill really would've looked like out on the road. :rolleyes:

I also wonder another thing (see quote above). Last fall I couldn't stand more than a stroke or two in spin class. Now I can stand however long and hard the instructor says, but I still can't stand on a real bike on a real hill out on the road. I _used_ to do it all the time back when I was a kid with a 1-speed Schwinn. I've tried up-shifting to have more resistance and thereby more controll. But I still can't seem to do it. Any tips for that, besides just keep trying?

Well, I did what you ladies said and went up and down a hill yesterday. This is the flattest part of England, so there are no real hills around, but I found myself a little one in a quiet neighbourhood where I could go up one side of the block and down the other. After the first three laps, I was getting very bored, but I kept it up for ten laps and felt very proud of myself. Just to keep myself mildly amused, I varied between high cadence sitting and some laps of standing sprints. Still after ten laps I was thoroughly bored and gave up. Any good ideas for how to stay motivated to do more laps?

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Originally Posted by bikeless in WI

I also wonder another thing (see quote above). Last fall I couldn't stand more than a stroke or two in spin class. Now I can stand however long and hard the instructor says, but I still can't stand on a real bike on a real hill out on the road. I _used_ to do it all the time back when I was a kid with a 1-speed Schwinn. I've tried up-shifting to have more resistance and thereby more controll. But I still can't seem to do it. Any tips for that, besides just keep trying?

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I was just coaching a woman with the same issue. She wasn't really aware of it, but she was basically bottoming out at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Be sure you are pedalling a circle when you stand. Be sure you are supporting your upper body very steadily and even pulling up a bit with the arms. (Augh - It is so hard to describe these things in words and not showing.)

Practice on the flats first - not just hills. Get the technique down on the flat roads and get comfortable with it then try it on hills.

I'm curious: is it harder to stand and pedal on a road bike than a mtb?

I don't think it's harder. I'm not likely to stand much on either - usually only on short, as in 100 meters or less rises.

V.