Handling Corners?

I bought a couple of books and started working turning corners with my bikes. I can hit 17 mph around a street corner on my mountain bike with no problems using the tecnhiques from both books.

However; when trying it with my Madone at around 10mph I felt like the bike was going to slip out from under me. Not that I want to beat a speed limit, but I want to corner safely on this bike. It's so light that even a slight lean seems to almost bring the bike out from under me during a corner unless I slow way down.

How far should the bike lean into a regular street corner?

There's no single answer to that. It depends on traction (model of tires, condition/age of tires, road surface, contaminants on road surface); your sight line through the turn (can you see all the way to the exit to where you'll be able to stand the bike back up without crossing the center line); camber/crown of the road; traffic conditions; wheelbase; bottom bracket height; and of course your own skills.

But a better handling bike will naturally need to lean less to go through the same turn at the same speed, and I think that's what you're addressing. It will also take less force to achieve the same lean.

I always had to slow WAY down to corner with my Cannondale Synapse. I now have a Cannondale SuperSix in the same size. The way these two bikes handle on corners is starkly different. I simply could not blast through a corner on that Synapse. The steering was mushy and numb on the Synapse...by contrast my SuperSix goes exactly where I want to go, without my really having to *think* about steering. Fast, slow...it's all good.

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

?!?!?! :D

Interesting...:)

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I liken it to comparing the steering on a midsize family sedan to the steering on my sportier hatchback. Hubby's car has softer suspension and less responsive steering. My car is all about the zoom-zoom (they're both Mazdas, but mine's the fun one)! :D

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

I always had to slow WAY down to corner with my Cannondale Synapse. I now have a Cannondale SuperSix in the same size. The way these two bikes handle on corners is starkly different. I simply could not blast through a corner on that Synapse. The steering was mushy and numb on the Synapse...by contrast my SuperSix goes exactly where I want to go, without my really having to *think* about steering. Fast, slow...it's all good.

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That's intriguing (as the owner of a Synapse). Comparing my old bike (an aluminum Felt f85) to the Synapse, I love how my Synapse corners. Could simply be the better fit and upgrade in wheels, but I may be "forced" to test a SuperSix now, just to know...

-pll (who also drives a Mazda) :D

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Originally Posted by pll

That's intriguing (as the owner of a Synapse). Comparing my old bike (an aluminum Felt f85) to the Synapse, I love how my Synapse corners. Could simply be the better fit and upgrade in wheels, but I may be "forced" to test a SuperSix now, just to know...

-pll (who also drives a Mazda) :D

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I've done a couple of rides on my Redline CX bike with the same tires from my SuperSix. Even that corners better than the Synapse, but not as well as the SuperSix. Stiffness/geometry-wise the Redline is right between the Cannondales. Redline and Synapse are both aluminum, SuperSix is carbon.

Keep in mind that different sizes of the same bike may handle differently. The headtube angle and rake of the fork could be different, among other attributes. Obviously, it could just be a difference in the subjective perceptions of the riders, too.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

I've done a couple of rides on my Redline CX bike with the same tires from my SuperSix. Even that corners better than the Synapse, but not as well as the SuperSix. Stiffness/geometry-wise the Redline is right between the Cannondales. Redline and Synapse are both aluminum, SuperSix is carbon.

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I was confused by your mushy comments about the Synapse as well - I corner great on mine, much better than my old bike. But, my Synapse is all carbon with very upgraded wheels. I can easily take a corner at high speeds, if I choose. I see that yours was aluminum. I wonder if that's what the difference is.

What works for me is to lean away from the bike. If I'm turning right, I lean left (and it's not a subtle lean at all whatsoever). Someone taught me this technique for taking corners on steep hills so you can maintain speed without losing the bike under you. So far, so good.

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Originally Posted by westtexas

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What works for me is to lean away from the bike. If I'm turning right, I lean left (and it's not a subtle lean at all whatsoever). Someone taught me this technique for taking corners on steep hills so you can maintain speed without losing the bike under you. So far, so good.

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I lean with the bike.

http://tandemhearts.smugmug.com/Tria...-2011-04-M.jpg

25 mph though a 90 degree corner.

Veronica

I spoke to a Category 1 bike racer and we discussed cornering. As I newby I mentioned that I knew enough to keep the pedal in the "up" position on the same side as I was turning toward, so I wouldn't clip my pedal on the ground. He asked if I knew the more significant reason for that, and I said "No". He said that while the inside pedal is up, the outside pedal is down and the leg is straight. That straight leg is not relaxed, but the rider should put active, downward pressure on that leg to cause the wheels/tires to have grippier contact with the road so the bike does't slip out from beneath the rider going around sharp curves. He also mentioned keeping the body slightly more level and upright while the bike leans in the direction of the turn.

Veronica's picture is a demonstration of exactly what Velocivixen's post refers to. She is driving her weight through the outside leg, leaning into the corner, completely stable.

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Originally Posted by Velocivixen

I spoke to a Category 1 bike racer and we discussed cornering. As I newby I mentioned that I knew enough to keep the pedal in the "up" position on the same side as I was turning toward, so I wouldn't clip my pedal on the ground. He asked if I knew the more significant reason for that, and I said "No". He said that while the inside pedal is up, the outside pedal is down and the leg is straight. That straight leg is not relaxed, but the rider should put active, downward pressure on that leg to cause the wheels/tires to have grippier contact with the road so the bike does't slip out from beneath the rider going around sharp curves. He also mentioned keeping the body slightly more level and upright while the bike leans in the direction of the turn.

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Ok, so then this is what I do. I say lean left when turning right, but really, my body is upright. I also have the turning side leg in the up position. I thought about this alot on my ride this morning, and I actually looked at my speed around corners for the first time. I can easily do 20mph around a corner without feeling any slip.

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Originally Posted by westtexas

But, my Synapse is all carbon with very upgraded wheels.

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Ok, I'm officially curious. My wheels are the stock wheels and I'm thinking of gifting myself an upgrade in the coming spring. What did you upgrade to?

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

I always had to slow WAY down to corner with my Cannondale Synapse. I now have a Cannondale SuperSix in the same size. The way these two bikes handle on corners is starkly different. I simply could not blast through a corner on that Synapse. The steering was mushy and numb on the Synapse...by contrast my SuperSix goes exactly where I want to go, without my really having to *think* about steering. Fast, slow...it's all good.

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Are the wheels different on the two bikes? Wheel stiffness, or rather the lack thereof, can contribute to "mushy" handling.

The books I picked up are "Complete Book of Road Cycling Skills" and "New Cyclist Handbook". I figured I'd trying the cornering techniques and see what works and what doesn't on both my bikes, a mountain bike and my Madone by just going around the block over and over.

I was surpised that putting pressure on the outside pedal and using your hips to steer worked so well. I didn't try countersteering since I was just getting used to leaning a bike.

First time with the Madone gave me a heart attack as I hadn't expected the bike tires to feel like they were sliding out under me at 10 mph on the first corner. I have the original tires and have a little over a 100 miles on them.

Obviously the Madone vs. a mountain bike has totally different handling.

I think I've always had a fear of corners after I was riding with my dad on his motorcycle and he leaned too far taking a corner and we nearly crashed when I was a kid.

Veronica, the picture is beautiful and I love your bike.