Don't know how to drive: those "foreigners" / from other countries

Incident this past Saturday:

The salesperson that handled the sale of a couch that I finally ordered..railed about terrible driving habits in Toronto (or it could have been VAncouver for that matter) of "people from other countries" who are just terrible drivers, cut her off, etc.etc.

Now, this young blonde, pleasant and university educated woman who said this. She was probably in her late 20's, early 30's.

Her boss is Chinese-Canadian (probably born in North America judging from his near non-accented English. Sorry I sense alot of nuances very easily in this area since I am myself a CBC.) who I assess by his personal style "assimilated" like myself.

Whenever I hear "people from other countries", especially when people just see other people..in a car...that = non-white / non-Western European looking.


I actually have heard this said several times by different people. It gets pretty tiring. It's like an old droning noise to me. Maybe they should be reminded to put their cellphone away while they're driving or whatever. Look out for the cyclists..

See, I would assume she's talking about Americans.

I would think she meant Americans, too. I'm fairly certain at least a few people said that about me in England.

I wouldn't assume racism from that comment. Could be anything, including the fact that people like to complain about other drivers.

I can confirm unfortunately that in Western Canada this comment definitely referred to immigrants or non-whites, especially Chinese people or South/East Indian.

I hear it all the time about drivers in Richmond.

I do find, based on sitting in my friends' cars, that there is a general difference between how people drive depending on whether they were born in a car culture (i.e. North America), learning to drive as teenagers (or before!), or learned to drive as adults after having been raised in a less car-centric environment. However, the difference I observe is that people who were not born in a car culture seem to take driving less personal, to see their cars less as an extension of their selves and more as a mean of transportation. That doesn't mean that they are paying any more attention, but if they see a cyclist or other "obstacle" they will be more considerate of it, less likely to use their car to assert their presence aggressively. This doesn't have much to do with skin colour but rather with the level of immersion in car culture.

This is totally unscientific though.

Um....I think some people (not Grog) are missing something:

The woman was driving and was driving by these other drivers. They weren't talking to each other from each other's cars in on a freeway, ...(probably highway 401) where the speed is 100 kms. per hr. It's a major highway to get out of Toronto into Mississauga

They saw one another in the cars in less than 3-5 min., while whipping down the highway. That's it.

And immediately, snap judgements are made. Based on skin colour alone.

See it for what it can be.

I'd also have assumed she was referring to Americans. I now live in an area that gets tourists during the summer due to the beach, although living in the city (well actually on the west side) means a lot less of it than living in a beach city. But you can tell when the tourists show up, and they can be referred to as tourons. Now not all tourists are tourons. The ones that are tourons are the ones that forget how to drive, leave all common sense at home, ect.

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Originally Posted by Koronin

I'd also have assumed she was referring to Americans. I now live in an area that gets tourists during the summer due to the beach, although living in the city (well actually on the west side) means a lot less of it than living in a beach city. But you can tell when the tourists show up, and they can be referred to as tourons. Now not all tourists are tourons. The ones that are tourons are the ones that forget how to drive, leave all common sense at home, ect.

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Heh, I just used the term touron on Friday...dealing with all the brainless tourists heading our way for the weekend. I grew up in a super touristy area and really came to detest anyone with out-of-state plates by late July. It always seemed like over half of the tourists assumed that driving laws didn't exist in vacation-land...and the cyclists were often worse. Riding 3-4 abreast (2 is the law in WI), ignoring stops, riding on the wrong side of the road, etc.

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

Um....I think some people (not Grog) are missing something:

The woman was driving and was driving by these other drivers. They weren't talking to each other from each other's cars in on a freeway, ...(probably highway 401) where the speed is 100 kms. per hr. It's a major highway to get out of Toronto into Mississauga

They saw one another in the cars in less than 3-5 min., while whipping down the highway. That's it.

And immediately, snap judgements are made. Based on skin colour alone.

See it for what it can be.

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I don't think that I'm missing the point. I still think it's the license plate. Especially at 100 kms per hour, that's the easiest way to tell someone's a foreigner.

I'm sure it is often the case that's it's racism, just not so sure it's the case here. That she was otherwise pleasant, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.

I think that people make generalizations, (or stereotypes if you like), about people all the time and those are perpetuated in the media. I have heard stand up comedians make jokes about the the driving habits of Asians. The Simpsons had a convenience store that was run by an east Asian. I make my generalizations about drivers based on what they drive. Volkswagen drivers tend to drive fast, Chevy pick up drivers are red necks who think that bikes don't belong on the road and try to intimidate, gravel haulers all hate bicycles on the road and don't slow down or move away etc. Now I know it is NOT true in all instances, it just so happens that when I am out on my bike, I "watch out" more for these vehicles. Google Asian drivers and you will be appalled at what turns up.

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

See it for what it can be.

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I think others have given reasonable interpretations for the comments being made about something other than skin color. They have offered different perspectives.

I have no direct experience with your area or the drivers, so I can't make an educated comment. However, I can certainly empathize that those comments meaning what you believe them to be could well be considered offensive. I think others are looking for less offensive meanings.

Not quite sure what you're seeking to start a discussion on here, though:confused::confused: Or what you meant by reminding folks to put away their cell phones.:confused::confused:

I'd let it go, SS. I've heard the same comment used to explain bad driving in San Francisco. There are tons of people there who are from some place else. If she is busy checking out the skin color of other drivers then I would argue that she is not focused enough on her own safe driving.

If anything she was just trying to make small talk and establish common ground with you as a fellow Canadian. That's what sales people do.

NByNW, I know that you're referring to the woman in the store who made the comment to me...as risking her own safety if she's busy fuming away at other drivers while she's driving.

I don't drive. I gave up my license 3 decades ago. I just hear complaints.

Blueberry, I began the thread on both fronts...that we all know with heightened clarity as cyclists, that bad driving knows absolutely no boundaries of race/culture, etc.

In fact, I would go as far as to say, one can not lean on the excuse of gender, race, tourist-vs.-local status, for bad driving...etc. because as a cyclist, one is truly defenceless in face of a 1-ton vehicle. It's an unequal relationship from the start : between car and cyclist.

zoom-zoom, glad you understood what I was saying. It can be even worse here, because not only is it a tourist area (Topsail Island to the south and Emerald Isle to Atlantic Beach to the north) it's also a major military town (Camp LeJuene), so we also get the turnover every month, but late spring into early summer is the largest of that so that adds to the tourists of people not knowing where anything is and making for more dangerous driving.