Hammer Gel/ Endurolyte vs Cytomax

I would be interested in learning if others have had success with mixing Hammer Gel and Endurolyte in their water bottles? I did this the other day for the first time and it seemed fine, but over-heating called an early end to my ride. I just have ice water in my Camelbak.

I like Cytomax, but the problem is the flavor just gets overly strong for me - when I get hot I can't tolerate much flavor in my water - none at all is preferred. The gel dissolved easily and of course the Endurolyte didn't leave any flavor. There was some flavor from the gel - but so mild that I seemed to tolerate it even when over-heated. This is the first thing other than water that I've been able to tolerate after getting that hot. I used the Hammer Huckleberry gel.

There are other things I want to try for rides > 2 hours, but until I get acclimated to the heat I need to limit my rides to 2 hours or less.

Gels are meant to be eaten straight out of the packet or flask. If you want a powder to mix in your water, Hammer Nutrition's product is called HEED.

Hammer Gel and HEED are primarily calorie replacement products. They contain a small amount of sodium - each flavor of gel is different, but none has more than 40 mg sodium per 90 calories, and all flavors of HEED contain 40 mg sodium per 105 calories - but only trace amounts of other electrolytes and amino acids. Cytomax contains sodium and potassium, and a bit of magnesium, as well as calories.

HEED and Hammer Gel contain xylitol and/or stevia for a sweet flavor, since almost all the calories come from maltodextrin. I'm not sure about Cytomax - I don't have any and they don't have an ingredients list on their site. Some people get stomach upset from sugar alcohols. I'm guessing that Cytomax doesn't have any non-caloric sweeteners, from the simple fact that their sugar content is so much higher than the Hammer products'. In general, more sugar = more immediate energy; more complex carbohydrates = more sustained energy.

I'm not sure you really need to replace electrolytes during a ride of less than two hours, especially if you're not getting muscle cramps during your rides. Just remember that if you sweat a lot, you'll need to eat something salty and a healthy serving of vegetables to replace calcium, magnesium and potassium. Are you getting symptoms that suggest to you that you need to be replacing electrolytes during your shorter rides? (Leg or foot cramps during the ride that don't happen in cooler weather - facial tics - nausea beginning the day after a long ride - are the primary symptoms I'll get.) Honestly, I'm the queen of subclinical hyponatremia, but I don't replace anything but calories unless I'm going three hours or longer - and it's really calcium and magnesium I need the product for, since I can find a bag of chips for sodium almost anywhere.

If and when you need to replace electrolytes during a ride, and if you want to stick with Hammer Nutrition products - which are probably the most widely available at retail - you also need to buy Endurolytes powder or pills to replace electrolytes. That's how they get ya. :rolleyes: Endurolytes powder has a salty, bitter, slightly metallic flavor. The pills are more expensive, but you don't have to taste them. Personally, I'll use the powder for training runs - just because it's so much harder to swallow a pill while running - but pills for day rides on the bike, when I can stop and take a break and get the pills. I recently trained myself to swallow the capsules while running so I could rely on water stations at races, but it isn't so easy. Cytomax likely has enough sodium and potassium to get you through, but I would still need more calcium. Again, everyone's different...

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Gels are meant to be eaten straight out of the packet or flask. If you want a powder to mix in your water, Hammer Nutrition's product is called HEED. .... Again, everyone's different...

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Thanks for the good information and I had not considered calcium. I am in post-surgical menopause and do try to make sure I get enough.

Someone at my LBS suggested mixing the gel in my water as an experiment. I do like the lightly flavored gel and the flask option hadn't occurred to me. Both of my bikes have a top-tube bag so I have a place to put it.

After my 2 hour ride Sunday in 87 F temps I was quite weak (not a surprise) and had a very sensitive stomach the next day (a surprise) - this is why I was experimenting with the Endurolyte the other evening - I had intended to ride for two hours if I could.

I am happy with how Cytomax works - and it is hard to find the ingredients on the internet - it is just too strongly flavored for my stomach. I note that HEED is available in an unflavored version if you buy it in bulk. That is worth an experiment. I've been told that Hammer products have more "natural" ingredients - I don't know about that - but they are easy to find.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

a very sensitive stomach the next day.

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For me, that's the #1 sign of not enough sodium. But it wouldn't necessarily be a sign to me that I needed more during the ride. Maybe just learn to be more liberal with the salt shaker at dinner.

Think of sodium in the same way as calories. Too much is a bad thing, and you hear a lot about that on the news, especially right now. But as athletes, we need more of both than the average sedentary person, and not enough will hurt you a lot quicker than too much. Exercise isn't an excuse to go crazy with salt or calories, but it does mean finding a new equilibrium. That just takes some trial and error, but identifying your symptoms and tracking your intake is the place to start.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

hard to find the ingredients on the internet

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Here ya go - tropical fruit flavor anyway. I should've looked at drugstore.com right off, they've got ingredients for almost everything. Cytomax does contain the artificial sweetener acesulfame potassium.

Catrin,

Cytomax is one of the few sport drink mixes that my stomach can tolerate. I, too, find most of their flavors to be too sweet at full strength, but some of the flavors, in my opinon, are better than others. I can tolerate the peach and pomegranate berry better than the tropical punch or orange. I think I have both of those flavors at home, so when we meet for our ride, you're welcome to take some home to try. Even with those flavors, however, I make them just slightly weaker than recommended.

Not to add another one into the mix, but Vitalyte tends to be very lightly flavored (except the orange). I can mix it full-strength and not get stomach discomfort.

http://www.vitalyte.com/products/

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Originally Posted by indysteel

Catrin,

Cytomax is one of the few sport drink mixes that my stomach can tolerate. I, too, find most of their flavors to be too sweet at full strength, but some of the flavors, in my opinon, are better than others. I can tolerate the peach and pomegranate berry better than the tropical punch or orange. I think I have both of those flavors at home, so when we meet for our ride, you're welcome to take some home to try. Even with those flavors, however, I make them just slightly weaker than recommended.

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I have the cool citrus, and I would love to try a little of the peach and pomegranate berry to see if I can tolerate the flavor. I am certainly looking forward to our ride!

Oakleaf, thanks for mentioning sodium. I do not normally add any salt at all - a lot of my protein comes from fat-free dairy products and the sodium content of that tends to be high - especially fat-free cottage cheese. I may simply be restricting it too much.

Of course, it is also hot, and my body needs to acclimate and BEFORE June 12! That is the day of Tour de Cure Indianapolis, and I will be riding on a hot race track...

Becky - thanks for the heads up on Vitalyte. If I can't get Cytomax or Hammer products to work for me then I will check it out.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Gels are meant to be eaten straight out of the packet or flask. If you want a powder to mix in your water, Hammer Nutrition's product is called HEED.

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According to the Hammer website, one can mix their gels with water and use them that way. I've done that and been happy with the results. I also use Cytomax. I really can't stand Heed. I've tried many of the flavors and, nope, not for me. Love the Apple Cinnamon gels though. :)

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Originally Posted by Alex

According to the Hammer website, one can mix their gels with water and use them that way. I've done that and been happy with the results. I also use Cytomax. I really can't stand Heed. I've tried many of the flavors and, nope, not for me. Love the Apple Cinnamon gels though. :)

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I have tried mixing their gel in water + an Endurolyte capsule and the result seemed good - plus the flavor was mild enough for me. I tried the melon Heed this weekend and it was better than the Cytomax, at least flavor-wise. VERY mild flavor and I could tolerate the taste after getting hot. My fitter told me the other day that a lot of people don't like Heed because it has such a mild flavor - that it is too bland for them. When I get hot I can't tolerate much flavor.

I am looking forward to trying the two flavors of Cytomax that Indysteel has as I do like the results from Cytomax, but the Heed will work if they are too strongly flavored for me.

+1 to melon Heed. Cytomax was too sweet for me.

For rides over 90 mins I carry one bottle with water and 1 bottle of melon Heed and carry Endurolytes capsules. I will carry Endurolytes and Hammer Gel if the ride is going to be over 2 hours. For really long rides I switch the Heed to Perpetuem. I live in FL and it gets really really hot but I dont think I have over heated while riding.

Add another vote in for the Subtle Melon Heed. I also like the Subtle Strawberry flavor, too. Another not-too-sweet product I like, is GU Brew (formerly known as GU20). But then again, I generally tend to make my mixtures of any powdered drink, on the weaker side...so perhaps they all have a really mild taste (to me) because of that. Heck, I'll even cut a standard bottle of G2 in half with water, in order to dial down the sweetness.

I mixed the melon Heed at full strength and still found it mild enough to tolerate. It was a very positive trial, though I still want to try the peach Cytomax to compare it with.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Someone at my LBS suggested mixing the gel in my water as an experiment. I do like the lightly flavored gel and the flask option hadn't occurred to me.

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Funny thing, the Hammer advice guy -- Steve Born -- suggested the same thing to me when I was marathon training. Stuff that had worked great for distance cycling (Perpetuem) did NOT work well for me for distance running. I tried Heed and ended up getting very swollen hands and feet and vomiting -- UGH!!!

In fact, the faq on Hammer fuels (what they are and how to use them) says, "You can use Hammer Gel in your water bottle (it mixes completely in solution), in the Hammer Flask, in a one–serving pouch, or to flavor other products and foods."

So, there ya go! :)


As far as the sodium thing, I'm with you in that I am very salt sensitive (I won't even eat frozen plain boneless skinless chicken breast after I've cooked it with nothing added because it tastes too salty to me)!

According to Hammer, "Research reports fit-acclimatized athletes need only 50% of the sodium required to maintain serum sodium levels as do unfit-unacclimatized subjects. The more fit and the more trained & heat-exposed, the less sodium is required. "

Also, "We believe that lowering the sodium intake in your diet will positively affect your athletic performance as well. The body is very adept at storing sufficient amounts of sodium so you will start your workouts and races with plenty of sodium 'on board' and ready to serve you. The difference is that, unlike people who consume a high-sodium diet, an athlete who adopts a low-sodium diet will not lose sodium at the same high rates; it will utilize those stores more efficiently and conserve them more thoroughly."

Hope this helps! :)

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Originally Posted by michelem

Funny thing, the Hammer advice guy -- Steve Born -- suggested the same thing to me when I was marathon training. Stuff that had worked great for distance cycling (Perpetuem) did NOT work well for me for distance running. I tried Heed and ended up getting very swollen hands and feet and vomiting -- UGH!!!

In fact, the faq on Hammer fuels (what they are and how to use them) says, "You can use Hammer Gel in your water bottle (it mixes completely in solution), in the Hammer Flask, in a one–serving pouch, or to flavor other products and foods."

So, there ya go! :)

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Thanks for the confirmation - I KNEW that I had seen somewhere that one can use Hammer Gel in this way but perhaps I had just dreamed it or something :)

Thanks also for the info on sodium - I don't want to get too much, but need enough. For now I think I will hold off on the Endurolyte outside of very hot days and see how that works. Both Heed and Cytomax both have at least basic electrolytes so that is probably enough outside of 90+ degree weather.