Clarity being reqested on Pedalling method

I was reading on bicycling.com, a slideshow on ways to ride faster, and came to #6: http://www.bicycling.com/speed/slide6.html.
"6. Anchor your ankles. Improve your pedaling efficiency and put more pushing power directly into your pedals by keeping your ankles in a neutral, or pillar, position. A recent study discovered that when riders pedaled with their ankles dorsiflexed, or with the foot flexed upward, their pedaling efficiency dropped nearly 3 percent. Worse, their calves expended 37 percent more energy while pushing the pedals in that position. Keeping your ankles straight gives you a more solid platform on the pedals and can improve efficiency, reduce muscle fatigue and help maximize your power output."

I am trying to form an image in my mind of this concept. I recall here on TE it had been encouraged to use a range of motion similar to wiping mud off the bottoms of the shoes. That described movement I have tried to practice when riding.

Is the bicycling site describing the same or a different motion? I am having a brain freeze!

I believe they are describing a different motion where your ankle is flexed upward (heel up).

When I practice "wiping mud off my shoes" I extend my heel down as the pedal comes through the top of the arc and keep it down (so that if my foot were to contact the ground it would contact first), and then rotate through to a more "ankle neutral", straight position through the upstroke.

As my equestrian trainer always used to shout "LONGER STRONGER". (ie: make your thigh and calf as long as possible by dropping your heel and you'll get more power (ok, on a horse it was stability and cue strength, but concept is similar)).

I've never even heard of pedaling dorsiflexed. It's pretty obvious why that would lead to a reduction in power and stress on the calves.

Most people have much more of a problem with plantar flexion. There are historically two schools of thought on "ankling," or using your calf muscles to pedal by bringing your toe up and down through the pedal stroke. Keeping the ankle fixed is definitely more popular nowadays, but I'm not familiar with the science behind it. Googling yields some interesting discussions though. The gist of most of them is that ankling is an "urban legend" with no scientific support behind it, and that it can lead to injury.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I've never even heard of pedaling dorsiflexed. It's pretty obvious why that would lead to a reduction in power and stress on the calves.

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Yeah, pedalling with your ankle dorsiflexed (heel lower than pedal) would be a big no-no.

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Originally Posted by Oakleaf

The gist of most of them is that ankling is an "urban legend" with no scientific support behind it, and that it can lead to injury.

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Yup.
Some folks get more power by being a little plantarflexed, some folks do better being neutral. Most find their happy place while adjusting their saddle height, automatically and without ever having to think about their ankles. (Higher for those who like to plantarflex, lower for neutral pedallers) It just "feels right." The upshot is: don't force yourself to change just because someone else pedals differently than you do or you read an article claiming ankling is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Experiment all you want, experimentation is good stuff, but always settle with what feels right. Your body knows what is most effecient for YOU, and you'll feel it.

Ack, well, I was apparently confused this morning and got it backwards!

It is "obvious" that the calfs would expend more energy when dorsiflexed (heel down), it is NOT "obvious" at least to me that it would lead to an overall reduction in power.

I have absolutely no earthly idea why it would be a "big no-no" or that it could lead to injury. I naturally pedal with my heel down. It's down a lot at the top of my stroke and while it becomes more neutral towards the bottom it is still slightly down at the bottom. My bike fitter(s) know this (they always have to bring my heel to neutral to check my angles when fitting a bike to me), and haven't said a darn thing about it being "bad" (and we've even discussed it). Haven't hurt myself yet.

I DID hurt myself plantarflexed (toe down). My knees (which have never ached while riding bikes) hurt and hurt for a few days after as well. Hated the feeling as well.

Maybe I'll work on staying more neutral. My bet is I'll go back to my comfortable dorsiflex position, power loss or no.

I also pedal more naturally with my heel down - I think it comes from many, many years of keeping my heel down in stirrups while riding horses. I feel more stable that way, though the angle is no where near as extreme on my bike as it is on a horse. I find it very difficult to LIFT my heels, however, probably due to the equestrian muscle memory making it feel just wrong.

Everyone has their own happy place.

You two have extensive horse-riding experience, so of course you are stronger dorsiflexed. Don't worry about it, don't compare yourself to anyone else, don't think your own way is wrong.

Remember: "don't force yourself to change just because someone else pedals differently than you do"

It would be just as damaging and power-losing for you to pedal plantarflexed as it would be for Oakleaf or I (or another cyclist with no horse riding experience) to pedal dorsiflexed.

It's ok to be different. Don't let it bother you, don't let it change you. You have extensive experience weightbearing in a dorsiflexed position so of course that is optimal for you.

MartianDestiny - any fitter worth his salt is of course not going to give you a hard time about riding dorsiflexed! My goodness, unless he's an idiot he is going to listen to you tell him about position in stirrups! He'd be ridiculous to tell you it's "bad"! I'd be concerned if he tried to change you! :eek:

Let me repeat this again: Experiment all you want, experimentation is good stuff, but always settle with what feels right. Your body knows what is most effecient for YOU, and you'll feel it.

Funny. I would have sworn I learned in spinning class to switch between pedaling flat (quads) and pedaling heel-down (glutes) because it switched muscle groups. I tend to ride flat and only switch to heel down when my quads are fatigued and need a break. But who knows if that was accurate info..........Anyone?

Sure it switches muscle groups. It switches to something that is overall less efficient. The OP had a quote about efficient pedalling.

(exceptions are, of course, folks who have trained to have their peak power differently than others)

Ride your ride, folks. Don't be uptight about switching things around as you get fatigued. Everyone does it.

Everyone, take a deep breath! Breathe in.... repeat after me: whatever feels best when I ride is best.... breathe out.... breathe in.... repeat after me: I don't have to get uptight about studies and techniques... breathe out.... breathe in.... repeat after me: I don't have to compare myself to everyone else.... breathe out.... breathe in.... repeat after me: I'm ok, you're ok.... breathe out.... breathe in... repeat after me: all bikes are beautiful, and so are all riders, I don't need to feel insecure about my bike or my technique... breathe out

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Originally Posted by knottedyet

everyone, take a deep breath! Breathe in.... Repeat after me: Whatever feels best when i ride is best.... Breathe out.... Breathe in.... Repeat after me: I don't have to get uptight about studies and techniques... Breathe out.... Breathe in.... Repeat after me: I don't have to compare myself to everyone else.... Breathe out.... Breathe in.... Repeat after me: I'm ok, you're ok.... Breathe out.... Breathe in... Repeat after me: All bikes are beautiful, and so are all riders, i don't need to feel insecure about my bike or my technique... Breathe out

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rotfl

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Everyone has their own happy place. [/B]

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Love this! I have always tended to pedal plantar flexed (perhaps the ballet has something to do with that?), and have occasionally had people suggest that that is why I'm so slow. Pedaling in a more neutral ankle position isn't uncomfortable, but I can't hold it without consciously thinking about it, so I long ago determined to follow Knot's advice and not worry about it. It feels right and it works for me—and it gives me an excuse for being slow.

[Everyone, take a deep breath! Breathe in.... repeat after me: whatever feels best when I ride is best.... breathe out.... breathe in.... repeat after me: I don't have to get uptight about studies and techniques... breathe out.... breathe in.... repeat after me: I don't have to compare myself to everyone else.... breathe out.... breathe in.... repeat after me: I'm ok, you're ok.... breathe out.... breathe in... repeat after me: all bikes are beautiful, and so are all riders, I don't need to feel insecure about my bike or my technique... breathe out[/QUOTE]

LOL! Thanks, Knot!

Ditto!

With the caveat that if you're like me, and your pedaling style (1) is the result of tens of thousands of miles on poorly fitting bikes [cranks too long] and (2) causes or exacerbates injury, then you [I] do need to change.

If it works for you, do it, for sure! But don't just assume that what you've always done is really working for you.


- Oak, still learning that lesson in running and cycling