Club issues

/Warning - long rant ahead...

Ok. Can you let me know if I'm being silly here? I've ridden with this club affiliated with a LBS the past 2 years. It's all men for the most part, which is fine I guess. But I'm getting a little bit peeved lately. Most of them are older, former racers, that still have that cocky mentality. The others are nice guys that acknowledge the attitude of the others. But will jump and hammer when the others go because they're still competitive. I'm the only woman who has consistently ridden with the club. Other women show up and try to ride with them, but they just get dropped. Then they don't come back. This also happens with men who show up who aren't THAT into cycling.

We had a meeting in the off season and I recommended an A and B group to help retain riders. And for everyone to be a bit more aware of when other riders are struggling. Maybe they need a few minutes to recover but could hold on if the group would just wait a minute. This has worked ok for the Saturday rides, though the B group is much smaller. Sometimes it's just me and another guy, who is really nice. The problem I'm having is I'm too fast for B pace and cannot maintain A pace for as far as they go without them easing up for a bit, which they won't do. Because B is so small, it cannot be broken up if some riders are faster but not good enough for A.

We have week day evening rides which I'd missed for the past month or so, until this past Tuesday. The pace was really high, anywhere from 20 to 26 mph. Normally we take it somewhat easy and sprint the last strech of the loop we do. It's considered a free for all there, where you hammer til you can't any more. Then we all meet at the stoplight and repeat the loop. We do this 3 times. A new woman showed up, and I was really excited. She was dropped even before we reached the first turn in the loop. I never saw her again, so I assume she went home. Another woman stopped after 2 loops. We also dropped at least 2 guys. I barely hung on with another guy on the 3rd loop, and didn't even sprint the final leg. At least a couple guys waited for me at the light to head back as a group.

I put a post on our bikejournal page about the pace and dropping people. The retort I got from one guy was that if we slow down we're going to lose the "stronger riders" to the other club in the area and suggested A&B for the weekday rides also. I agreed with him, but I'm annoyed. Instead of trying to help other people get better, they just keep going. I also don't enjoy riding the entire time at my peak threshold. They certainly have made me a stronger rider, but the 'tude is getting to me. Maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion, but I'm annoyed and am wanting to join another club. Ironically, it's the other club that the guy was talking about. They have a woman's racing team and a much more diverse set of riders.

So should I jump ship for the other club? I've already been exchanging emails with the woman who heads up the woman's racing team. I rode with them once last year, and they're certainly fast. But when I got dropped a few people held back and stayed with me.

Have any of you experienced this with male dominated clubs?

/rant over :)

First let me say that I think this is not a case of "male dominated" clubs, it has to do with club attitude in general. I've seen enough weirdness in womens' clubs, too.

I started a mountain biking club, an IMBA chapter, this year as I as not getting what I needed in a club. I tried on several clubs for size, so to speak, and then started one that was focused on doing what the others werern't.

The only real answer I have for you is to put your $$ where your mouth is. "B" group riders are too slow for you but you think there needs to be a B group? Get your mileage/paces yayas out on a different ride, and be a B group ride leader. How do you think beginners get better? By being encouraged in a supportive enviroment that is conducive to rider growth.

or, so what if you go to the other club. Does anyone really care? If you aren't getting what you need as a rider, take some action for yourself.

just my 2¢ as usual

Thanks Irulan. I ran into a guy from my club out on the road today and discussed my gripes with him. He said he was tired of the attitude as well with the club, and that he was going to talk to the shop owner. In the past it was an unwritten "rule" to slow the pace to wait for people who got separated on turns on higher traffic roads and at stop signs, etc. It's now less like a club ride and more like every man for himself. I told him about switching clubs and he said I'd probably run into a similar problem there. So you may be right about it being a club thing versus a male-dominated club thing. I'm still going to give them a try anyway. Perhaps that's where I can get my "ya-yas" and volunteer to lead the B group with the other club. I can't see anyone else doing it, other than my fellow Saturday B rider. And he works evenings more often lately.

so, is this a club or a shop sponsored group?

hmmm, we have similar stuff that happens here, but basically I find you choose the ride you want / need to do. If that means doing the ride where you hang on as long as possible and maybe get dropped, so be it. If you want a group to stick together, then do the rides that have that.

Irulan's suggestion sounds good - depending on what your own goals are and whether the suggestion fits in.

It's nice to keep a look out for other riders, and as a Level 1 coach and knowing what it was like for me to start out riding, I'm all for encouragement etc. But not if it's going to cost me my own goals. I find I'll hook up with newer / recreational / slower riders on my recovery days, where my pace is suitable for them, and it works all round.

It sounds like you need to ask your LBS about putting together a ride that averages a slower speed... and/or... a "no drop" ride (where you wait for the slower ones and encourage them to keep at it!).

I bet if it were something advertised/posted in the shop... you would get a nice group meeting up to go on those rides.

And for the no drop ride... make it very clear at the start, that NO ONE gets dropped. So, that might mean stopping at certain points, etc... and if someone wants to forge ahead... and get dropped from the front, then that is their choice.

Also, can you ride with BOTH clubs? Why just ride with one? Pick the rides you like best... and go from there???

Best of luck in finding your niche!

It's a shop sponsored group. But they call it a club :D

Thanks for the tips everyone. They advertise a no drop rule, but it's never adhered to. Which is why we came up with A&B groups to help those who just can't keep up. The issue is the club isn't that big, so the number of B riders is very small. I'd like to boost that somehow. I think if we could retain those who come out and get dropped and think that the club is just way too fast for them into another category that'd be great. It just never seems to happen. I'm so used to getting dropped by those guys I don't think twice really. Though it was nice when they'd let you catch up if you fell off because of a turn or a stop sign. It's not fun to have to hammer all the time to catch up and then die and fall right back off again :) I'm definitely going to start riding with the other club when my schedule allows. They seem much more female friendly. I hope my impression holds.

one thing I've been doing this summer is helping out on a lot of beginner rides. Sometimes they are way too slow for me, the rides are way too easy, but I put on a smile, and make sure everyone has a fun time. Why? It's in my best interest to create more compentent mountain bikers. And if they are having fun, I am having fun.

So I encourage you to help make it happen.

Irulan

Beta- I know exactly how you feel.

I ride w/ a group that leaves from the LBS every saturday morning. And the rides are great when there's a small group, like 6 to 12 or so. But if the group gets any bigger than that, I know I'm going to be dropped. That happend just yesterday b/c about 20 riders showed up, and 2 were former racers. I am definately the only girl and one of the younger riders.
We get an email every week, and it says "easy pace, 14-16mph". This last ride began at 20mph, and before we had gone 2 miles the main group (read all except 4) were over a mile a head. It's like the men have a "I can't let anyone go faster than me" mentality and there's no way they can even think about the set pace of 14-16mph at that point.
So I was about 1/2 mile in front of the last 2 guys, and the one other rider in front of me slowed to wait for me to catch up, b/c he thought I was the last one, but after he realized that there were 2 more behind me, he said, well, I'm going to go try and catch up with the rest of the group. I am thankful that he waited for more, but was so irritated when he took off at 26+mph to catch up. He's always there on the group rides and I've riden with him a lot.
Now, at this point I had to really concentrate on not being super mad. I had to remind myself numerous times that I was riding a great pace, about 18mph on rolling hills, and that I was actually going faster than the "set" pace for the ride. But that kept making me think that I shouldn't have been dropped in teh first place... so frustrating.
After riding about a half hour by myself and trying to calm down ( I was so bitter at that pt) I figured it might cheer me up a bit to ride with the 2 behind me. So I waited for them to catch up at the stop sign. I'm not sure if that made the ride better or worse. They actually were really annoying conversationalists (maybe it was just my attitude at the time). And I swear they kept slowing down after I had waited for them.
For the topping on the cake, when we were about 2 miles from the end of the ride, as I'm talking to them, the one guy goes off the brim of the road (no shoulder on the country road). Now it's common sense that you can't just jerk bike back on, you wouldn't do that w/ your car, why would you do that w/ your bike? but that's exactly what he did. He totally biffed and almost took the other guy w/ him. Of course he had a flat at this point, so we had to stop. I tried to show some sympathy, but really I was thinking "how stupid was that" can't you stay on the road. He only went off the side b/c he wasn't paying attention, and is a swervy rider.
I can credit 2 of the riders though (and one was the guy that waited for me the first time) b/c they rode out to make sure everybody was making it in. (apparently men even take away tire changes from each other, b/c they fixed his flat)
But at this point I was just really aggrevated b/c my ride wasn't enjoyable. Hopefully next week is better! Sorry this post is so long!

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So I was about 1/2 mile in front of the last 2 guys, and the one other rider in front of me slowed to wait for me to catch up, b/c he thought I was the last one, but after he realized that there were 2 more behind me, he said, well, I'm going to go try and catch up with the rest of the group. I am thankful that he waited for more, but was so irritated when he took off at 26+mph to catch up. He's always there on the group rides and I've riden with him a lot.

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Ok I feel your pain here. I had this happen to me on my annoyance ride! This guy who is part of the problem to me I think was riding with me along one stretch of our loop. He showed up late, we were on our third loop by then so he had fresh legs. He was telling me about his issues at work, and I was chatting up with him. Needless to say we fell a bit behind the pack. After we made the turn, and he noticed we were behind I said "yeah they're pushing the pace tonight" and he goes "well I'm gonna catch up". Gone. Into the headwind no less. No, hey let's work together or anything. He kept me back listening to his crap then dropped me like a hot potato. There was another guy who'd fallen off so I sat on his wheel for a while. I was like hey thanks dude. I was pissed.
Needless to say I'm not feeling real bad for him tonight with his email to the club about his 2 crashes today in his first Crit. I'd be a liar if I said it didn't make me smile once I realized he just has a really bad case of road rash. I know, bad karma is now set up for me. :D May the bike gods be somewhat kind to me in dishing it out.

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Originally Posted by betagirl

. I'd be a liar if I said it didn't make me smile once I realized he just has a really bad case of road rash. I know, bad karma is now set up for me. :D May the bike gods be somewhat kind to me in dishing it out.

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We are both needing the bike gods b/c that's how I felt about the guy with the flat, and he didn't even drop me. Sometimes I wish I could control the inner B***h that I've got.

I have to agree with Irulan. Lead a slower ride some days and go hammer with the A group other days knowing you may be dropped. Good training means you mix up the pace anyway. I've gone out with my two co-workers a couple of times, took my town bike, rode slow and talked about bike handling, etc. It has really been rewarding for me. I get slow recovery days but more importantly its making me think about what I went through in the early days. I'm finding new inspiration from their joy of discovery. I also do little things on the bike path with them that I don't take time to do when I'm on harder rides - practice riding without hands (can do on my mtbike but just getting up the guts to do it on the road), countersteering even the smallest of corners, turning waaay around to look behind me, slow races, etc. Little things that get passed up when you're always out hammering.

I have to think that if the word goes out that you are leading these B rides that your credibility within your local bike community will go up and you may attract riders in that mid-range speed that you're looking for. Maybe even end up with decent size A, B and C groups.

Hey Irulan, Can I come ride with your beginning groups? I can't seem to find any slow-mo road groups to ride with. BikerHen

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Originally Posted by bikerHen

Hey Irulan, Can I come ride with your beginning groups? I can't seem to find any slow-mo road groups to ride with. BikerHen

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Sure we go out on Monday nights, usually at Riverside but not always. Tonight, I think we are meeting bowl and pitcher at 6 pm. You can get my phone # via my sig, the gal who runs them likes a head count.

For road, check into the WOW women's group, and Spokane Bicycle Club.

Darn! Can't go on Monday nights. I have play practice up on GreenBluff. I have been riding my bike up there once a week. It's good uphill practice. :eek:

I tried WOW, and was not quite up to their standard. :( Have thought about Spokane Bike Club and Mountaineers, but I waited to long to join in and all the road rides have gotten to fast for me.

I really do enjoy riding by myself, but would like to be a part of the local cycling groups too. What is a poor hen to do?! BikerHen