Help with building custom bike thru LBS (long)

Sorry this is so long, but it's a wee bit involved.

I'm in the process of getting a custom Moots through their local dealer, which happens to be my favorite LBS. The process has been going pretty smoothly, but some things came up over the weekend that have me a little irritated. I don't want to offend the shop, but I also don't want to feel like I'm getting hosed either. I'd really appreciate input from anyone who has gone through this process before.

But first a little background: When I started the process, I debated whether I wanted to buy a Moots, which would require me to work with my LBS (their lone dealer in Indy), or choose a different builder and skip the middle man. I've had some significant fit issues over the past year, however, and have worked with this shop extensively with my current bike. Thus, even though I knew it would cost me more, I decided to go with Moots.

I also debated about whether I wanted to order my components through the shop and have them build the bike for me or have my BF do it instead, with parts purchased (presumably at a lower cost), online. I knew the former would ultimately be more expensive, but I wanted the shop to have a stake in the bike. Since I don't really do a lot of my own wrenching, I feel really uncomfortable when I get something online, try to install it and then go to my shop with problems. While I knew my BF would be able to build the bike at a lower cost, I didn't know then (and really still don't) how long he would be in my life. And if he had any problems with the build, I'd again feel really uncomfortable going back to my shop. This may sound strange, but I do want the shop to make some money off of me. I like them. They've treated me very well and I want them to stay in business. That's within reason, of course.

So, I ultimately gave my shop the greenlight to get some quotes for me, which they got to me over the holiday weekend. The initial quote raised a few concerns for me.

First off, they indicated that the bars I wanted--FSA Compact Wing Pros--don't come in a 38. Instead, the quote included Salsa's Carbon Pocos. Why they picked those, I don't know. The email regarding the quote indicated that the Pocos retail for $270. They also mentioned another Salsa bar, an alloy bar that retails for $60.

Contrary to the my LBS, the FSA's do come in a 38 cm, although they're hard to come by. I'm also not sure why they chose those particular Salsa bars as alternatives, especially the carbon Pocos, which is a very different bar from the FSAs, both in price and design.

Second, they indicated that the wheelbuilder they use doesn't build with the hubs or spokes that I'd would prefer to use. They indicated that they had some other suggesetions for me as far as custom wheels go. I had previously expressed some reservations to my shop about having wheels built for the Moots. I have a perfectly good set of gently used custom wheels at home, and I'd prefer to just transfer them to the new bike, assuming that I decided to build the bike with Campy (I've been debating between Campy and SRAM). So, regardless of what their builder carries, I wasn't sold on new wheels for this bike. That said, I have have some strong opinions when it comes to wheels and know what I want in that regard. It's not really negotiable.

In their email to me, the LBS explained that they charge $200 for a bike build. If you get all your components and parts, including wheels, through the store, however, they charge $100. In my initial respone, I asked about that policy and they explained to me that they like to reward people who buy their components through the shop rather than come in with a box of parts that are either used or were purchased online.

I understand that policy to a certain extent. However, I think there's a big difference between someone who is getting nearly everything (including a $3000 frame) through the shop and someone who comes in with a box of parts that they want installed. I also take issue with the fact that they intend to make me pay more for the build even though their own vendors apparently can't get me the exact components that I want.

I also pointed out to the shop that FSA does make a 38 cm compact Wing Pro and asked them to double check that they can't get one. They got back to me with the good news that another of their vendors has two in stock. They revised the price quote to reflect that. The bad news is that the quote only decreased by $160, while the difference in the retail price of the two bars is closer to $200-$210.

Overall, the quote is not unreasonable. I'm paying a bit of a premium to get the parts through the store rather than online, but if I factor in the price of shipping, it's not a huge amount. The shop has also done a fair amount of research in putting the quote together that has to do with my fit issues, and I think they have earned some profit for that reason. The jacked up price for the FSA bars irritates me, however, and makes me wonder what else I'm paying too much for.

So, here are my specific questions:

Is it kosher to ask for a break down of the quote so that I can determine whether the price of any given component is getting overly jacked up or should I just suck it up? Like I said, the overall price of the quote is reasonable when I factor in shipping.

Is it kosher to at least inquire why the price of the bars seems to be high?

And should I challenge them about the cost of building the bike? Even if their wheelbuilder carried what I wanted, there's still a good chance that I'd forego getting new wheels at this time. I'm otherwise buying about $1800 worth of stuff through them, however, plus the frame. Am I wrong to think that maybe, just maybe, they should still offer me the reduced rate?

The whole point in working with my LBS was to maintain a good relationship with a shop that was vested in my bike. I am sensitive to the fact that their profit margin is generally pretty small and that they're all struggling to compete with online retailers. I don't want to cut my nose to spite my face here. By the same token, I don't want to feel any remorse about the bike or have any built up resentment about how I was treated or what I was charged.

Thanks for your help!

My husband and I just built him a Cervelo P2C, replacing alot of components off the stock bike for upgrades. It was a confusing venture, but my LBS guy knows his stuff. That being said, an itemized list of all the components and the cost was factored in.
Ask your LBS what is in stock and what needs to be ordered. I know that everything that had to be ordered was overnighted and I imagine that YOU will pay for that shipping in the price. We also got an across the board 10% off everything as it was installed. Sit down with the guys and ask for everything to be itemized, including labor. Photos are mandatory after the finished product.

except for the diff in price between build with all their parts and build without all their parts, your story sounds pretty typical.
When i was having my bike built, they charged (I forget, 100,200?) to put the bike together, and i supplied some parts, and they did too. I wanted Peter White wheels so i got them. I bought some campy record second hand and i used that too.
They quoted a higher price for handlebars, so i called them and said, hey, i can get those at X shop for 99 dollars, and they revised their price and bought them somewhere else.
They get a percentage off every part they sell you. i think that's fair, but if they are messing with the numbers, you def. should take it up with them. It's YOUR money. If they want your business, they need to quit messing around. It's worth it to them to be nice to you if they want all your future business.
good luck.

oh yeah, and if you want to stay with them, at the end ask for your discount.
I got one.

I had a custom build (well no custom wheels) and I got a broken down quote, so you should just "harmlessly" ask for that and then point out "but ooh, I think the bars go for like xxx dollars".... - sure you're entitled to a breakdown for the kind of $$ you're spending. And you're entitled to some back-and-forth about parts too.

the 100 build premium, well, maybe you pay for the future support and all.
I didn't pay any surcharge, but then again it was the guy's own frameset so maybe the 100 were included its price already.

I also got about 10% off the total, and he threw in a pair of bibs and a jacket. Expo discount, he called that.

I'm building up a second Waterford this winter. On neither did I get a detailed quote. The price was within the ballpark of what I expected so I just trusted the shop that the prices they quoted me are fair.

Perhaps I'm just naive, but trust is important. As I've dealt with this LBS over the last year, I've more and more stepped to trust and away from questioning prices. Sometimes the price I pay for a part or serverice seems high, but other times I wonder how the shop is going to make enough money to be in business next summer. It all works out, I've learned a lot along the way, and they really treat my bikes well.

If it makes you feel better with a detailed quote, do it, but, my opinion is that if the overall cost is within your ballpark estimate, go with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thorn

I'm building up a second Waterford this winter. On neither did I get a detailed quote. The price was within the ballpark of what I expected so I just trusted the shop that the prices they quoted me are fair.

Perhaps I'm just naive, but trust is important. As I've dealt with this LBS over the last year, I've more and more stepped to trust and away from questioning prices. Sometimes the price I pay for a part or serverice seems high, but other times I wonder how the shop is going to make enough money to be in business next summer. It all works out, I've learned a lot along the way, and they really treat my bikes well.

If it makes you feel better with a detailed quote, do it, but, my opinion is that if the overall cost is within your ballpark estimate, go with it.

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Thanks for the insight, ladies. My gut tells me to go ahead and question--politely--the cost of the bars, but to otherwise let the other issues go. I agree that trust is important and the shop has been very fair to me in other ways. I've priced everything included in the quote and the markup is about what I expected. If I included shipping in that, the price difference is even less. It sure adds up though. I prepared myself for the sticker shock, but it's still a lot to take in. The irony is that if he hadn't mention the $100 price differential, I would have thought nothing about paying $200 for the build.

I will say that, while getting a new bike is fun and exciting, it's also kind of stressful. I really hope it works out in the end.

Don't feel guilty about saving yourself money. The shop sure doesn't feel guilty about jacking your money.

You should get quotes for individual items. Otherwise, they just pulled the quote out of their a##.

I find it truly obnoxious that you a buying a boutique brand of bike and that they will not give you the build discount of $100. What if you already had the parts sitting around?

I had my LBS build up a bike of parts that I got on ebay, craigslist and discount online stores. I decided that the several hundred dollars I would save was just too much. I think I paid $130 for the build earlier this year; the cost of the build didn't differ if I bought the parts through them or not.

Do not let the LBS steal your money. And if you get really fed up, contact Carl Strong about having a custom bike built. Folks over on RBR rave about his work.

I think it's obnoxious, too, that they're not giving me the discounted rate, but I'm also trying to keep the bigger picture in mind. One moment, I'm pissed off. The next, I'm zen about it. There are other things the shop has done--like refit me at no additional expense on my Bianchi after changes I made to it months earlier through another shop caused some biomechanical problems--that make me want to cut them some slack. But then again, I'm throwing them a big chunk of business at a time when a lot of people are cutting WAY back on luxury items.

Argh. There are times that I feel like my most complicated relationship in my life is with my LBS. I usually reserve that role for my mother!

and the truth of the matter is that even great bike shops don't always deliver the bike you wanted.
in some ways, by going custom, you stand a greater chance of it not being exactly what was planned.
my husband had chroming done on his bike. It went back to the chrome shop 3 times. In the end, he did not get what he asked for.
Another person i know wanted plenty of fender clearance for his tandem. frame came back with enough room for 25mm tires and fenders, but no bigger. They were pretty upset.

good luck.
oh, and they are never done when they say they'll be!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

Another person i know wanted plenty of fender clearance for his tandem. frame came back with enough room for 25mm tires and fenders, but no bigger. They were pretty upset.

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Was the frame replaced? A max size of 25mm tires on a tandem is just stupid.

that's max with fenders. And i don't know how it was resolved.

My advice is to politely question any obvious mis-quotes. They could have just made a typo or innocent mistake. I didn't get a price breakdown other than a general difference in total price based on specific upgrades. But this isn't to say that you shouldn't ask for one.

My experience taught me to ask anything and everything about what they're putting on the bike. I made mistakes by not asking enough questions or getting confirmation about the parts and the schedule. I would recommend being overly assertive on this, to prevent misunderstandings. Some of the "odd" part recommendations could be choices they make for the average customer. Wheels are really important - if you want something different, then push for it. It can all be redone, but it adds to delays in getting your bike. We had several verbal agreements that were forgotten, and then I made sure we had written or email confirmation of everything.

For what its worth, my LBS includes a 90 day free pass on making changes, where they only charge the difference in the price of the components. No labor charges, in other words, to swap out something I didn't like after riding the bike for a while.