what is more important for climbing?

What is more important for climbing? The weight of the bike, the weight of the bike and the rider on it, the absence of rare suspension, or the skills of the rider?
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The story behind these questions is:
I don't have a mountain bike yet, and trying to find a good one for me, but of course it will be an entry-level bike.

Currently I am choosing between hardtail and full suspension, that is a bit heavier than hardtail (duh..). The components are very similar (both of them are low-end, entry level, but are not bad - I've checked out the websites....).
I'd choose a hardtail, but the other one - FS, fits me better (but not much). And hardtail one is "taller", I guess the center of gravity will be more "back" when I will climb, so I am quite stuck with this dilemma - hardtail, that is lighter but i am not sure I will make it fit for me; and FS that fits well, but heavier. Both are about $500 now.

One more question - does anyone put here their saddle higher than handlebars level? How bad it would be for newbie? (I want a Small size bike, as Middle one looks way too big, ha. but on S I have to lift up my seat... )
According to wrenchscience my "fit" is (for road bike)
Frame Size center-to-center: 16 in
Frame Size center-to-top: 17 in
Is it ok to get a C-T ~15 in on MTB for me?

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What is more important for climbing? The weight of the bike, the weight of the bike and the rider on it, the absence of rare suspension, or the skills of the rider?

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you left out frame geometry, and fit. Those, and skills would be the top of my list.

Don't over think your first mountain bike purchase. Trust me, I know how easy this is to do.

Center of gravity is more about where YOU are on the bike. If your frame is too big, esp too long in the top tube then it becomes and issue, but honestly, I think you are over thinking this.

Saddle height relative to handle bars is about riding style. For a standard XC riding position and especially old school XC racing, the saddle is always higher than the bars. Once you move more towards all mountain geometry ( more slack) the rider position becomes more upright.

Some words of advice. If you are spending less than $1000, (you say entry level) you will always get more bang for your buck with a hardtail. Inexpensive FS bikes are heavier and more poorly componented that their hardtail brethren. If you can't spend at least $1500 on a FS I think you should forget it. I am also of the school that you learn better bike handling skills on a hardtail.

Wrenchscience is a good place to start but most importantly, get thee to a bike shop and ride/try lots of bikes. That will tell you more about what feels right than any web site calculator. Road bike fit is not the same as mountain bike fit. About the only thing that will be the same is actual saddle height for climbing. Most folks I know who have used road bike sizing to buy a mountain bike have ended up with a mountain bike that is too big, too long for them.


Irulan

I second Irulan about not buying a FS in this price range. As for geometry, you should also look at length - seatpost to handlebar. Is that one ok?

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Originally Posted by Irulan

you left out frame geometry, and fit. Those, and skills would be the top of my list.

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True. The question was not quite correct then - I was wondering what else is important when both bikes fit.

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Don't over think your first mountain bike purchase. Trust me, I know how easy this is to do.

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:) And thanks for a reply!

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Some words of advice. If you are spending less than $1000, (you say entry level) you will always get more bang for your buck with a hardtail. Inexpensive FS bikes are heavier and more poorly componented that their hardtail brethren. If you can't spend at least $1500 on a FS I think you should forget it. I am also of the school that you learn better bike handling skills on a hardtail.

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I tried (from ~$500 range) Novara, GT, Ironhorse, Cannondale and K2 in local Rei and PerformanceBike; Ironhorse and Cannondale were the lightest. I liked Cannondale F6 feminine (http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/c...del-8FSW6.html) and K2 Ridgeline (http://www.rei.com/product/761435); F6 - the lightest; K2 - the most comfortable feeling when I am on it and it is not heavier than i.e. Novara Aspen or Cannondale F7. But is is heavier than F6.

The biggest problem - my lack of experience: when I test ride - I am not quite registering... :) It is more like OMG-OMG-OMG, in a good sense of course... Will try F6 this weekend one more time then.

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I reread my own comment - I am turning the topic a bit different way than it says on the title... Sorry . :o
Still I guess discussion about climbing will be a help for me in the future anyway.

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Originally Posted by alpinerabbit

As for geometry, you should also look at length - seatpost to handlebar. Is that one ok?

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Hm, I will recheck it, I think it was the same in both cases; just F6 has wider handlebar, so K2 felt better, as its handlebar is more narrow.

Get a hardtail and ride the h*ll out of it. It will make you a better rider.

I ride a hardtail & find no problem with them..

My Scott & I enjoy the hills :)

Most handle bars can be chopped if they turn out too wide.

I think a hard tail is an excellent way to learn to climb. It also forces you to learn your bike for the fun aspect of going down hill. I agree with what others have said - you will get more bike for your money with a hard tail. If there are any FS bikes under th $1000, they will be tanks.

Do you have any other LBS (local bike shop) around you? Honestly, REI and Performance are not known for their bike fits.

ok-ok, will think more about getting a hardtail, but I will try not to overthink :)

I hesitate to go to "professional" stores; I better buy something from "popular" store, as they have free tune-ups and maintenance for sometime.


Alpinerabbit, you are right, I was told that they can narrow the handlebar for me.

er - ?? any "professional" store should just as much give you a free first tune-up. and they'll definitely do some tweaks for you. What makes you think they wouldn't? It's good customer care.

The second tune-up / overhaul will start costing you at any store.

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Originally Posted by alpinerabbit

The second tune-up / overhaul will start costing you at any store.

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If you buy a bike from my LBS it comes with free lifetime tune-ups

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Originally Posted by alpinerabbit

er - ?? any "professional" store should just as much give you a free first tune-up. and they'll definitely do some tweaks for you. What makes you think they wouldn't? It's good customer care.

The second tune-up / overhaul will start costing you at any store.

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eep:eek:
This is a whole different discussion, why you might want to support your local specialty store over large chain conglomerate.....

Lifetime basic adjustments go with everyone of my shop's bike sales.

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Originally Posted by Zen

If you buy a bike from my LBS it comes with free lifetime tune-ups

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Originally Posted by bike4ever

Lifetime basic adjustments go with everyone of my shop's bike sales.

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Every time I read things like this it always make me think about how I LOVE:rolleyes: how many times I have been @#$%^&* over by my lbs-S (yes, that is S as in the plural sense:mad:).

OKAAAYY... *takes deep cleansing breath*

On what bike to buy, sometimes simplier is better. I have a hardtrail. It gives me the jist of what I need with lightness. Prior posts give good advice on the components and price break for HT vs full susp.

On fit, DO NOT buy it too big. I *thought* I needed a bigger bike than I did. So glad I have the smaller now. When you are actually in a true mtb trail situation trying to get your bike through stuff, if it's too much bike to wrestle, that can be a very bad thing.

I'd shop all the stores. Looking around gives you all the options.

On climbing... part of your original post question... my vote is light. If it's trail or road, extra weight of any kind / any place just hurts after a while.