Pedals for loose knees

I've always worn pedals with cages, but am thinking about getting clipless pedals soon. I have really "open" knees with a lot of knee instability. Basically my kneecaps can dislocate on their own while my knee is in motion. Usually they move back into place properly and there are no issues, but sometimes they don't. This has never happened to me while cycling (it's only happened in high impact activities such as running and jumping), but it's very painful and I'd like to avoid it if at all possible.

I've read (here on TE) that float is good for the knees, and that Speedplay Frogs are great for the knees because they have so much float. However, I'm wondering if there is such a thing as too much float. Because my knees are inherently unstable, would it be better for me to get a pedal with less float and more stability, like a Crank Bros candy? Or would that exacerbate my knee issues?

Thanks in advance. :)

The best person to answer that question might be your PT.

(depends on what structures and instabilities are causing your trouble whether or not you want to lock down the end of the kinetic chain [yer foot] or let it float)

Unfortunately I don't have one. I've had this issue my whole life... If it matters I'm also flat footed.

I have loose knees as I'm sure you've figured out from searching the other threads. I bought a pair of Speedplay Frogs but then realized I probably didn't need them since wearing my custom insoles prescribed to me by my PT in my cycling shoes seemed to cut down on a lot of the pain and irritation on my knees. I agree with Knotted that you may want to check with your PT or orthopedic doctor. Wear those custom insoles, too, if you have them.

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Originally Posted by Flur

Unfortunately I don't have one. I've had this issue my whole life... If it matters I'm also flat footed.

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Wow, you have all these knee problems and never saw a PT for it? Do you have an orthopedic doctor at least?

I did see a doc when I was a teenager. I'd gone out for the volleyball team and had a LOT of issues from the jumping. My doc said that I could have surgery to shorten the ligaments, or "it would just go away as I got older and less active". Shows what he knew ;) He did put me into PT, but again I was 16 and now I'm 31, and that was in MI and now I'm in MN. I'm a yogi, where open knees are a virtue - I have no issues sitting in lotus or sitting in hero with my sit bones all the way onto the floor between my heels (and b/c ALL my ligaments and tendons are loose, I pretty much need to be there and lying back before I can feel a stretch in my quads). Yoga has strengthened all the muscles around my knees, but I'm still a bit nervous about what will happen with pedals.

I have no issues with my toe cages. The left one is completely snug on my shoe - I have to wedge my foot in. The right one is a little bit looser as that's the foot I drop when I need to stop. Would 6 degrees of float feel similar to this, or do cages permit a lot more movement than I think?

I considered Speedplay pedals and was talked out of it by my LBS. I was told there is a thing as too much float and the weight of the cleats and lack of support of pedals was a question. I wound up with Look carbon keos, I love them. The great thing is that there are two different cleats with different levels of float. You definitely need at least 4.5 degrees with your knee problem. Go to a good bike shop and talk to them. I think it will be less stress on your knees than the cages. Good luck.

Flur, I third seeing a PT and working with them on cycling-specific questions. Your PCP can refer you. I don't know what advances have been made in PT in the past 15 years, but I suspect a lot. More to the point, the equipment questions that affect cyclists' knee alignment are unique to the sport. So even if your PT was up to the level of 2008 science, if you didn't work on cycling, there's more to be gained there.

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Originally Posted by Flur

I've read (here on TE) that float is good for the knees, and that Speedplay Frogs are great for the knees because they have so much float. However, I'm wondering if there is such a thing as too much float. Because my knees are inherently unstable, would it be better for me to get a pedal with less float and more stability, like a Crank Bros candy? Or would that exacerbate my knee issues?

Thanks in advance. :)

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I assume we're talking mountain pedals? (maybe I skimmed thread too fast)

YES frogs rock. I've been using them for years. I also have friends who swear by Times. You can adjust tension on most pedals but not float. Yep, frogs have the most float. The mountain cleats are not heavy but the road cleats are (but the pedals are lighter so 6 of one....)

I can't really speak to your specific knee problems but when I was a kid my knees would dislocate. I grew out of that but I get knee pain now and again and it's not fun. **knock on wood** I don't have pain with a properly set up bike and my Frogs for MTB and x2 for road.

good luck.

Strength training would be very good for you, also. Because you've had issues, you should find a trainer with a CSCS (certified strength and conditioning specialist) or CPT (certified personal trainer) certification from the National Strength and Conditioning Association. They have strict testing and certification requirements.

I have wonky knees and ride Speedplay. If you are riding road, there are several models from which to choose. The Zero allows you to set how much float you have, and you can adjust inward and outward float separately.

I have the X2s, which do not have adjustable float. If I had a do-over, I'd get the Zeros. I can say that unclipping is absolutely effortless with the Speeplay, something that is not true of most pedals.

I was having some trouble with hotspots, so I decided to try Shimano's SPD-SL Ultegra (road) pedal. I did like the wider platform, although I didn't like that it was single sided. But what I really, really dislike was the amount of force needed to unclip. I felt like every time I unclipped (which could be a lot depending on the route I'm taking and time of day--I don't trackstand) I was doing damage to my knees.

Once I figured out that my hotspots were more a function of my socks (I only use very thin ones now), I sold the Shimanos on ebay and went back to my Speedplays.

During every pedals stroke I can tell my right knee goes a bit wonky and my heel moves outward. I'm sure I am losing a bit of power. But every time I see my foot move, I figure that is energy that is not being used to tear my knee apart, as it would with pedals with no or more limited float.

I second the Speedplay Zeros
1) you can choose to have float or have them fixed. I ride mine fixed I find it greatly helps stabilize my knee.. but they need to be fixed in the proper position.
2) They are easy to get in and out of
3) You don't have to twist your foot as far as some others like Look & Time to get out of the pedals which is good for bad knees.

I too have bad knees.. Loose ligaments in my shoulders, hips and knees. This is greatly benefited by lifting and trying to get those muscles surrounding those joints strong because the ligaments won't hold the joints together so the muscles need to do more then their normal share.

Personally, i have not had much luck with PTs. I know there are good ones out there but I have not found any. However, I have had good luck with a chiro who does more then just chiorpractic.. he evaluates gait, does orthodics etc etc. I have also had great luck with massage in helping knee issues.

I DO have eSoles in my cycling shoes and if you ever have the opportunity to be fitted by Peterson himself do so.

-grace