Confusion during my spinning class (sorry; it's kind of long)

We're "breaking in" a new spinning instructor at my gym and, last night, something came up in class that had me confused.

The instructor, who appears to be a fairly strong road rider, had us increase the tension several times to a "7." He suggested that we choose "a good standing tension." From there, he had us get out of the saddle for about 45 seconds. Then he had us sit back down and--maintaining the same tension--instructed us to increase our cadence to match his cadence. And then he started spinning to beat the band (he was well past 120 rpm from what I could tell; his legs were a blur). He held that cadence for over a minute so it wasn't just a short surge. I'm pretty strong on a spin bike, but there was no way for me to spin that fast without significantly dropping my resistance. I looked around the room and most everyone else was spinning at a much slower cadence than the instructor, too.

I expressed my confusion to him after class. I explained that, from my experience in other classes and with other instructors, a tension of 7 (on a scale of 1 to 10) feels like a moderate climb. I further said that at that kind of tension, I usually have enough the power to accelerate a bit, but I certainly can't maintain a really fast spin, at least not without blowing my knees or my lungs.

By this point, another one of my spinning instructors, who also happened to be in class that night, joined the discussion. Having taken her class many times, I thought she'd understand what I was getting at. Wrong. She started going on and on about how everybody and every bike (our current spin bikes are a little old and each one has its own "personality) is different, blah, blah, blah. I kept telling them that I understood all that and that I was talking about "my 7," not someone else's. Still, she kept coming back to that point.

She then suggested that maybe I'm just not in good enough shape to do what he instructed us to do (did I mention that I don't personally care for this instructor). Admittedly, there are a few really strong cyclists who can probably spin fast at just about any resistance, but if a "7" is supposed to replicate a moderate hill who among us, but the strongest riders, can sprint that fast at that tension?

I was getting nowhere fast with either instructor. He finally admitted that he would prefer that we match his cadence rather than his tension, even if it means dropping the resistance. To that, I responded that if no one but he can spin that fast at "7," then why tell us to drop the tension down to a "7" in the first place? He finally said that he'd spend some time next week explaining what his tension levels mean and how he generally wants us to follow along.

Great, but I still felt frustrated by the conversation. I realize that each instruction has their own way of measuring and describing resistance levels, but we were so not speaking the same language. I shared with him what one of my instructors uses as a guide: She equates a resistance of 3/4 to riding on the flats with a tailwind. Level 5 is riding on the flats with no wind. Level 6 is like riding into a headwind. Levels 7-10 replicate climbing, from moderate to steep. While I understand that people who don't ride outside might be a little confused by what she means, from what I can tell during class, most people get it. Last night's instructor, however, looked at me like I was talking gibberish.

Am I missing something? And please tell me if I am. If there's anything your instructors have used that you found particularly helpful, please let me know. This guy has only taught three classes. While he may be resistsant to suggestions, I think he could use some....

Thanks.
Kate

Thanks.

kate

Wow, that's way to confusing. And your instructors sound snobby, too.
My spin instructor is an Ironwoman and she keeps it pretty simple. There are all levels in my class (and the bikes all have different settings), so she yells out resistance in percentages.
(i.e. "Bring your resistance to 40%... Advanced people raise it to 55-60%... Beginners, lower it enough to keep up your cadence!)

She also takes the time to get to know new people during warm-up, to gauge their level. When she found out I was in triathlon, for instance, she'll yell out one set of instructions to the class and sometimes different ones for me (i.e. yelling out HR zones, etc).

As for the new guy, maybe it's just that he's just new. Perhaps you can take him aside and "suggest" a few helpful hints privately, someplace where a challenge to his ego is not so publicly displayed. I know, I know... :rolleyes: ;) :p

Every bike is different, every person is different. So to avoid confusion over "what is a seven", I cue my riders to find the resistance that gives them the HR or exertion level that we are going for if they don't wear monitors. Unless I am teaching a cadence class, I tell them they can toggle with cadence and resistance to get the intensity we are looking for, ie more res, slow cad or higher cad. less res.

No where in Spinning certification training does it teach to cue resistance the way this instructor did, although it is common, and a lot of gyms want their instructors to do it. I don't know how that came about.

The instructors sounded defensive - which is too bad. It is nerve racking to be new and have to perform in front of another instructor. I think Blue's suggestion about revisiting the conversation in private with the new guy will probably get you somewhere. If he is really a newbie, he was probably nervous, and for some reason the other one was protecting him.

I love to get feedback - even if (maybe especially if)it is about something I wasn't so hot at - that is like gold if you use it to improve.

Just for yucks, the instructors who cue resistance by number at one of the gyms I teach say that a ten means so much tension you can't move the pedals. Is that true for your gym?

Good luck "breaking in" the new guy. It is surprisingly difficult to teach something that looks so easy.

Julie

I know. It seems like they are all different. I've had some that use the 10 scale and no way a 7 would allow for spinning so fast. Sounds more like a 4 to me. Edited to add: this is why I always wear my HR monitor. I like to know how hard I'm actually working and I can tailor the workout accordingly.

I try to use a few cues when i teach my class to get across the exertion level -
how hard the effort should feel on a scale of 1-10, heart rate %, and most people can relate to walking or running, so i'll say something like "similar to a power walk" or like a sprint to the bus. I'll also add in the talk test, how easily is it to carry a conversation during the exertion.

Not everyone who goes to a spin class rides a bike regularly.

Instructors have to accept feedback either positive or negative. that's the only way we can get better! Besides, its your class, YOU are the client, so we need to meet your needs.

If you were confused about the exertion and the pedal rate, then likely, there were others too, likely too shy to say anything. So good for your for asking the questions.

Finally, stay within your own comfort levels with efforts and pedal rates. If it doesn't feel good, then don't do it. Your safety is really an instructors concern, so even if you aren't working "as hard" as the dril might dictate, as long as you are having fun and still safe, that's really all that matters.

Smile
Han

Speaking of Cadance...

I just bought a cadance monitor. How do you gage your workouts? I also have a HR monitor, which I can never bring above 165 (My max is 182). What is your RPM going up hills (I have a Kurt Kenitic trainer), on flat surface...

I'm not sure how they're instructed at my gym or even if they're instructed. I go to two different Ys and each instructor is a little different, but I can ususually get a feel for what they mean in the context of the class. Most of the programs are pretty straightforward.

The instructor that the guy from last night replaced more or less did things by percentage of effort/perceived exertion. I purchased a HRM to use for spinning (I've recently lost my chest strap but have a pretty good idea of where I am now), so I usually had that as a guide in her classes. Even with that instruction, there was some correlation between the resistance level she was recommending to what we were simulating in class, e.g, a sprint or climb. I don't remember her ever asking us to full-out sprint during a climb.

Other instructors, as my first post indicated, correlate their resistance almost exclusively to what we're road condition we're simulating with 1-3 being reserved for recovery. I have some instructors that are competitive cyclists and I sometimes tone things down a bit to account for the difference of abilities. Otherwise, I can generally follow what the instructor is doing. That's why my confusion last night was noteworthy--at least to me.

My other complaint with last night's instructor is that he changes things up too much. We'll spend 30 seconds doing one thing, followed by 30 seconds of another, etc., etc. It's had to get in a groove. I like when they mix it up a bit, but not too much. Of course, now I'm afraid to tell him that for fear of another argument.

I feel kind of sorry for the guy because I purposely started the discussion when it was just the two of us in the room. The other instructor walked back in and interjected herself into the conversation a few minutes into it. To be honest, she and I have butted heads a couple of times before, and that's one of the reasons that I ended up feeling rather miffed. She's young and a little immature and, in my opinion, thinks she knows far more about cycling and training than she does. She turned me off early on because, ironically, on several instances, she criticized another instructor in front of the rest of the class. The criticism was not only unwarranted, but also unprofessional.

Sounds kind of drama-filled for spinning, huh? It's usually not like this. Hopefully, next week will go better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by indysteel

She's young and a little immature and, in my opinion, thinks she knows far more about cycling and training than she does. She turned me off early on because, ironically, on several instances, she criticized another instructor in front of the rest of the class. The criticism was not only unwarranted, but also unprofessional.

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Unprofessional behavior towards a client or co-worker is never acceptable and should be reported to the employer immediately. Doesn't matter if it's a spinning instructor, sales clerk, manager, etc. If I was paying dues, I wouldn't have put up cr@p for a second. Just my 2¢.

Violette, I gauge my workouts on a number of things, but it really comes down to how I'm feeling that day. My heart runs like a bunny and I have a heard time keeping my heartrate low (I've seen it as high as 220 during a hill climb). Assuming I feel good, I generally work at a pretty high intensity. I try to spend a minute here and there doing an active recovery though to get my heartrate back down, no matter what the instructor might otherwise be telling us to do. We don't have cadence monitors on our spin bikes, so that part of it is mostly by feel. If I am feeling tired or overworked, I may drop everything down a few notches and spend the majority of class just spinning a moderate resistance at a moderate rate.

On my bike, I tend to ride long and steady, although I plan on working some intervals into my training this year. I generally stay in a range of gears that allow me to comfortably spin at 90-100 rpm. My heartrate is usually about 75% of max, although that can jump up in a headwind.

My cadence on a hill really just depends on the hill. If it's short and steep, I may just get out of the saddle and power up it. If its longer, I try to find a gear where I can spin about 70-80 rpm. I read once that you should aim for a cadence during a climb that is 85% of your "normal," flatland cadence. That's just a guide though. With each hill, you ideally find the gear that allows you to utilize both your muscle strength and aerobic capacity, without burning out either one of them. That's different for each rider.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by indysteel

On my bike, I tend to ride long and steady, although I plan on working some intervals into my training this year. I generally stay in a range of gears that allow me to comfortably spin at 90-100 rpm. My heartrate is usually about 75% of max, although that can jump up in a headwind.

My cadence on a hill really just depends on the hill. If it's short and steep, I may just get out of the saddle and power up it. If its longer, I try to find a gear where I can spin about 70-80 rpm. I read once that you should aim for a cadence during a climb that is 85% of your "normal," flatland cadence. That's just a guide though. With each hill, you ideally find the gear that allows you to utilize both your muscle strength and aerobic capacity, without burning out either one of them. That's different for each rider.

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After years of using a HRM to monitor my workouts, I know myself well enough now that I don't bother with it unless I'm focusing specifically on a cardio goal. I prefer to focus on cadence these days and I found this post to be interesting and helpful. Thanks!!

kate, maybe what he was trying to say was to maintain your "intensity" instead of your tension. you see this in the spinervals and trainright videos, where they have you achieve a certain intensity (like a specific heart rate) and then carry it through different cadences.
i just cant imagine doing a superhigh cadence in the same configuration as a hill climb.

Pinkbike, that's what I wondered too, which is why I asked him because he I noticed that he did not lower the tension on his bike as he increased his cadence. From what he told me after class, he may have assumed that we'd all kind of "just knew" to lower our resistance to match his cadence, but I think he'd better off specifically instructing us to do that.

I talked to the Wellness Director at the Y last night about it. He's a cyclist and spin instructor too, and he agreed that it sounded a confusing. He said that the instructor is a really, really fast spinner and may need to just tone that bit down a bit to match the abilities of the average person in the class. Interestingly, he told me that the guy is an experienced instructor and has taught at a different Y for a long time. That surprised me because he just seems a little rough around the edges.

In the end, I think my experience with this instructor is a good reminder that what an instructor tells the class to do is just a "suggestion." I may find myself doing my own thing in his class a bit more than usual. Since I'm a spinner on my bike, I prefer to really work on my form during spin class, especially on my pedal stroke. In particular, I like to challenge myself with a long seated climbs to work on my stroke and to develop the mental discipline in takes in stay outside my comfort zone while "climbing" (my weakness outside).

Bluetree, you're absolutely right. I thought about "reporting" her to management, but then didn't and really regret it. If she does it again (although the instructor she criticized is no longer teaching at the Y; she had her own issues with management) or does anything equally boneheaded, I will say something.

Thankfully, with warm weather on its way, I'll be riding outside more and spinning less. I think I could use a break from the politics of the spin room for a bit. :)

Thanks for all your input! Have a great weekend.

Kate

Well Kate, I'm sorry to hear about your frustration. It sounds like you really care about your spin class and instructor.

For me, I just do what feels like real cycling to me... when I'm a spin class. If I wouldn't do it on the road, I won't do it in a spin class. If I'm going to hurt myself... aka: my knees.. I don't do it.

Let's face it, unless we live where there are huge hills and we don't have a triple... we are RARELY going to mash the pedals with extremely low cadence, sitting down. But, spin instructors tell people to do it all the time

Good luck on getting it all worked out... but I think if you just do what feels right, it will all work itself out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KSH

Let's face it, unless we live where there are huge hills and we don't have a triple... we are RARELY going to mash the pedals with extremely low cadence, sitting down. But, spin instructors tell people to do it all the time

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Good point. I've started to ease up on that type of stuff since it's causing me pain in my right knee.

KSH, I had to laugh at your reply because I am SO analytical and earnest about everything I do. I give everything LOTS of thought and I love to research/learn things so I'm always way more "informed" than I need to be. It's a blessing and a curse! I drive my friends nuts. Since I'm an attorney, I think I picked the right career.

I agree with about not doing anything on the spin bike that doesn't feel like riding outside. I tend to avoid doing "speed bumps" over and over again because of that. When am I ever going to have to get out of the saddle for four counts 20 times in a row?

I do like doing some harder seated "climbs" though because, sadly, the hills in my neck of the woods and in southern Indiana are often really steep (in the 15-20% grade). They're the kind that you have to just grin and bear because they're often too long to just power over out of the saddle but too steep to just spin away. So, working on slower cadenced seated climbs helps me develop the patience and capacity (I hope) to deal with the hard stuff. That said, I avoid resistance levels that are too tough on my knees. I'm still able to spin, just not very fast and not without really paying attention to my form to maximize my hamstrings and glutes. I hated doing it at first, but kind of like it now, which I hope bodes well for this season.

After all this discussion, it occurs to me that I should just get trained to be a spin instructor. Then I can do it my way, right? I would actually do that, but I don't want to commit myself to teaching evenings when I could be outside.

As an aside, can I just say how excited I am that the weather this weekend is finally going to allow me to ride outside again. I haven't since December 30th. I feel like a little kid on Christmas Eve!