Basic swim questions...

Here are a few basic questions I have now that I am doing some swim workouts-

1. How to do flip turns. I never learned this and it does seem disrupting to pause at each end of lap (though sometimes I welcome the stop, turn around, breathe and go again...)

2. What is a typical time for a 400? Or even one length of the pool (25 meter/yard)?

3. Does anyone sidestroke or breaststroke in tris, if for nothing else than a short break from freestyle?

4. Lap counting. I lose count easily. I think coaches use little metal counters but is this something you swim with?

There are others, but that's enough for now... thanks.

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Originally Posted by tygab

Here are a few basic questions I have now that I am doing some swim workouts-

1. How to do flip turns. I never learned this and it does seem disrupting to pause at each end of lap (though sometimes I welcome the stop, turn around, breathe and go again...)

This is a big question. I'll try to be brief. As you approach the wall you tuck and summersault just in front of the wall. It's best to blow out through your nose when you tuck and roll, this keeps water from being driven into the nasal passages. Imagine you have tucked and rolled 180 degrees. Now, your feet are supposed to touch the wall (with knees bent like a squat) while you are facing upward, belly toward the water's surface, with your arms stretched out above your head in a streamlined position. You push off the wall with your feet from this position and twist back into the normal freestyle body position after pushing off the wall. It's that easy. :p :p My coach used to have us practice this over and over at the shallow end of the pool for 25 min at the end of a workout. You stand far enough away from the wall to get about 5 strokes in before you turn, then push off and try not to have to stroke or surface before hitting the backstroke flags.

There are a lot of very fast people in triathlon that do open turns at the end of the pool. These can become very fast as well if your timing is good.

2. What is a typical time for a 400? Or even one length of the pool (25 meter/yard)?

That varies a lot. A good swimmer (ie someone who started swimming when they were a tyke and kept it up) can do a 400 in under 5 min. I'm a decent swimmer for someone who started in adulthood and my best 400 time was 6:25. Most people new to the sport will not crack 8 min for 400 until they have a few training seasons under their belts.

3. Does anyone sidestroke or breaststroke in tris, if for nothing else than a short break from freestyle?

Yes. Especially in tris with a pool swim. There are a lot of people who will choose these for their first tri and I have seen many people breakup the swim with other strokes. I have not seen anyone do this in a race longer than olympic distance.

4. Lap counting. I lose count easily. I think coaches use little metal counters but is this something you swim with?

Lap counting takes practice. There are not lap counters that I can think of for use in the water. I try to associate a lap with a body part to help me keep count. Eg, I'm swimming a 400, each 100 will represent a limb for me, one arm then the other, one leg then the other, then I'm done. If I'm swimming 500 I might count fingers. You get the idea.

There are others, but that's enough for now... thanks.

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I hope that helps.

1. My step by step guide a) start by just doing a somersault in a deeper section of the pool. work on and coming back up facing the way as you start (ie. not turning around) and landing square on your feet. Once that is easy b) swim and do the somersault, still in openwater (not near edge). then c) do it up to a wall finishing facing the wall, not pushing off. This is to help you guage distance and when to commence the turn. then d) instead of returning to a stand push back off the wall with your feet so you push off on your back. once happy with that e) twist your body as you are pushing of the wall (or just after). The more you practise the easier it will become to turn onto your front more efficiently earlier in the tumble. Maybe only do some of your session (ie. every 2nd or 4th lap) with tumble turns for a while if it makes you feel frustrated or headachy (it can take a bit of adjustment)

2. No typical time and depends on if it is a sprint or as part of a set.

3. I think there are often lots of people that use the odd streatch of breaststroke (or sidestroke) to sight and catch there breath. I assume there are even competitors who do it the whole way.

4. Yep it's hard to keep track. I find the best way is to plan a session and take it in a plastic pocket with me to the pool and sit it on the lane end. I try and break even long sessions into lots of smaller parts (w/up, kick, sprints, drill etc) - not only does it help to keep track of distance but it makes the session more interesting. When doing bigger sets like a 500m or 1000m I try to do something different about every 4th lap (like breath every 5th instead of 3rd stroke or concentrate of a particular fault I'm trying to rid or do catchup or something like that) then I find it easier to keep track of larger blocks of laps. I usually also start again once I get to 10 as I can usually remember sets of 10 easily. I also make myself repeat a lap if I'm not sure if I've done it - very good motivation to keep count. Or if you swim a consistent pace you can use your time to work out the number of laps you've done.

HTH a bit.

My experience with flipturns is that I like to do them, and if they're well done they can make continuous lapswimming easier (or at least more continuous... I have a tendancy to 'hang' at the end of the pool for ~1 sec when I do a long set of laps and sometimes I feel this breaks the set up too much). However I have problems timing my breathing. I know that with practice it will get better, but I just haven't taken the time to really work on it. Right now I'd much rather be concentrating on getting my laps in than worrying about doing a flip turn. Maybe I will start focusing on that more...

Also, I think Bluetree posted in the beginner tri'ers thread about a lap counter that she likes. You might find a link in the last few pages of that thread to check it out. Sometimes I will use the lane dividers if they have room for the boueys (sp) to move around. I'll push all the floats as far towards the opposite end of the pool as I can and hopefully that gives me a few inches and then every 50 yards as I do my three-point turn I'll slide one down towards my end of the pool. At the end I just add up the rings and times by 2. I use it kind of like an abacus.

K.

I use my HRM when I swim and and push the timer after every hundred. That helps me keep track of how many laps I've done.

V.

When I'm swimming just for a workout I shift strokes and keep track of laps through which strokes I've done. Some strokes I also use for stretching shoulders and back after a weights workout (especially "inverted breaststroke", or any kind of backstroke to relax my neck after breaststroke), some to catch my breath after the more aerobic strokes (e.g. sidestroke after crawl), some to concentrate on form and balance ("wrong"-side overarm sidestroke). Now I'm just going for distance, not time, so I'll do, say, 2 laps of crawl, 2 back crawl, 2 breast, 2 side, 2 overarm side, 2 other side, 2 overarm other side, 2 inverted breast ... and in a 25 meter pool that's my first 400 meters. Go through the whole series again and then a half series more and I've done 1k. If you're just inserting one lap of some other stroke for a break, you could add those every sixth lap; then you only have to count to 5.

Great advice from the girls. Im with beetle I would start practicing tumble turns at the deep end first. When I was learning the shallow end freaked me out in the beginning.

Check out this link if you need a visual to go with the great advice here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ng/4230338.stm

I use a (relatively) cheap Timex Ironman watch in the pool - it counts laps - I just put it in timer mode and then push a button every time I finish a lap. At the end it tells me how long I've been swimming and how many laps I did. It also saves your split times but I've never tried to figure out how to retrieve them. Any basic water-resistant sports watch would probably be able to do this.

Lots of people mix up strokes. Sidestroke, backstroke or breaststroke are great for taking a break, calming nerves, or looking for bouys without totally losing momentum.

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Originally Posted by Kimmyt

Also, I think Bluetree posted in the beginner tri'ers thread about a lap counter that she likes. You might find a link in the last few pages of that thread to check it out.
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Yes, I like the SportCount, which I found on ebay for about $20. It does split times and overall lap:
http://www.sportcount.com/products.php

There is also a timer that sticks on the side of the pool, which you tap at every lap. I didn't purchase this one because I was afraid I'll forget to pull it out when I'm done. It looks good, though:
http://www.swimoutlet.com/product_p/5204.htm

Wow, you guys did great jobs describing flip-turns. I was stuck trying to describe it. After a while it's just something you do, but I remember it being hard to learn. Way back when I was first starting out on the swim team (wow, we're talking 18 years ago, I feel old) it was like a rite of passage to being a "real" swimmer (or just feeling like one). :)

I agree with Colby. I know how to do it, but had a hard time thinking of how to describe it! Great job ladies!

Counting laps- I do two things. 1) When I'm just swimming long distance I have my water bottle poolside. Around the water bottle I have hair bands (for ponytails). I just put a bunch on the bottle. For each 200 I take one band off. However many I have on the deck is how many 200's I've done. 2) if I have a written workout, I don't have to count. I just do the sets and add it up later

Strokes- I've seen lots of people just do breaststroke in tris- RunningMommy said one person did the whole IM swim sidestroke. Do whatever you want- nobody will say anything- or probably even notice. :)

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Originally Posted by EBD

I use a (relatively) cheap Timex Ironman watch in the pool - it counts laps - I just put it in timer mode and then push a button every time I finish a lap. At the end it tells me how long I've been swimming and how many laps I did. It also saves your split times but I've never tried to figure out how to retrieve them. Any basic water-resistant sports watch would probably be able to do this.

Lots of people mix up strokes. Sidestroke, backstroke or breaststroke are great for taking a break, calming nerves, or looking for bouys without totally losing momentum.

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OK, is it super geeky for me to say that I can't stand the way that a watch feels on my wrist when I'm pulling through the water? I feel all assymetrical and like I have more drag. Can you say - L O S E R. I know I'm kinda weird, you don't have to tell me.

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Originally Posted by Wahine

I know I'm kinda weird, you don't have to tell me.

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Triathletes... weird? Say it ain't so! :D :D :D

thanks, everyone! This is great help.

I will spend some time at my next pool session seeing if I can get the hang of the flip turn. I think the big missing link for me was conceptually doing the somersault and that you corkscrew to face down AFTER the flip. Somehow I was trying to picture how someone could possibly end face down when doing the flip.

And maybe when I get my new fancy HRM I'll look for one that has a timer or lap function in it. The water bottle idea and others are also good aids. I should be bringing water to swim anyway because I always get thirsty (how odd that one would get thirsty swimming).

Finally, I feel better with a strategy to a) increase my freestyle vs other stroke time (like one lap b-stroke every 4, then every 5 or 6 etc), AND that I could use these strokes if needed in a tri. I enjoy freestyle, so that is not it, but it is hard to keep my arms from tiring over several laps and just makes me want to change it up.

Sorry, lots of training lately.
I used to have this silly speedo thing that went on my finger that I tapped when I hit the wall. That would tell me how many laps, ttl time, and lap time. But it died one day and I never got another one.
This is what I do. It works, may sound silly, but it works for me.
As I start down the lane I repeat over and over "1,2 ,1,2,1,2,1,2" for the down and back. When I get back to my start I go down "3,4,3,4,3,4"
There are times when I forget which lap I'm on, but not often. And when you do 160 laps at a session you kinda figure out what works for you.
Oh and another thing.. When I go over 100 laps I start over when I get to 100.
Will this work for you? Who knows... But it might??

Oh and as for a 400 time?? You don't even want to know mine!! OY!! I'm slow beyond belief!! But heck, I can and DID swim 2.4 miles in an Ironman and I made the cutoff, so that's all that matters to me! :D

Oh yeah and your other questions...
Yes I've seen ALL strokes in triathlons! And I think a good number of people switch up strokes. I've even seen doggy paddling if you can believe that!!!
----- Yes I AM so slow that I'm back with the doggy paddlers!!! :confused:
And no I don't do flip turns. Never learned them, so I do this modified flippy thingy that a swim instructor at the Y taught me.