Hi, and dogs???

[liberty]

Hi, everyone. Wanted to introduce myself and say how much I have enjoyed reading the threads and advice/encouragement...

I do have a question. Have you found anything that works as far as deterring dogs? My main route has at least 5 aggressive dogs. Mind you I love dogs, but dogs and bikes don't mix. The roads by my house are hilly, winding, and narrow so if the dog(s) comes at me there is no place I can go to get away... Been having this discussion with my bike shop and they have been trying to get "Halt" for me. Unfortunately they don't have any dog-tazer guns... One guy advised me to fill a water bottle up with a water-tobasco sauce mix. That has been okay, but I hate the thought of giving up an entire water bottle because of the animals... The theory of getting off the bike if a dog tries to chase you is fine, but a couple places have more than one dog and I don't want to deal with the pack mentality. Yeah, can talk to the owners, call the animal control, etc.

Worst part is I had a wreck with two dogs about three weeks ago. Two of my normal dog-harrassers chased me (I didn't bring the tobasco that day, so I was trying to get them with water) down a little hill and around a corner before they stopped dead in front of me. I didn't have time to stop, even though I wasn't even going fast! Don't know how I landed, as my shoulders and elbow were all beat up and my helmet cracked; my legs only got bruises. Nothing broken, but it hasn't been until this week that I've been able to put any weight on my one arm. Everything is still sore to the touch. My bike fared better than I did. She is still at the bike shop because I haven't been able to move well enough to go pick her up. Gonna pick her up this week! I miss seeing her in my house...

Tomorrow is my second biking attempt to see if I can get moving again. A week ago I could only handle a few miles on the old hybrid before my shoulder gave up. I am trying to emotionally psyche myself up to going back out and biking again on my regular routes, but it has really done a number on my enthusiasm and desire to ride. Any hints? Advice? Ways to mount a crowbar on a road bike?

[Artisan]

Hello Liberty, welcome to TE. Having had a bad run in with a dog and ending up in the ER, I can totally relate to your situation. Beyond the fear I had to deal with each time I came upon a dog after the crash, I also had to deal with the anger I felt towards the owners for letting the dog roam freely and for the time it took for me to recover.
I thought the tobasco sauce water was interesting, I have not heard of that before. I would just hate to take a drink from the wrong water bottle on the ride. :eek:
I carry pepper spray with me but I've not had to use it yet, not sure I would use it unless I thought there were no other alternative. I've looked for bullhorns but I've not found one that is small enough to carry on the bike.
For each dog I come across now, I handle the situation differently. If they are little I can usually outsprint them. I came across to big dogs the other day and I just stopped, they didn't have anything to chase so they went on their merry way. If it's on a route I usually do and it's a consistant dog, I've talk to the owners and ask that they restrain their dog for their sake and mine.

[salsabike]

I've been told by many cyclists that the most effective thing to do is stop if you can't outsprint it, look at the dog, and shout "GO HOME!!" I actually did do that not long ago to a dog who was chasing a boy on a bike, and he stopped chasing the kid, looked totally abashed, and started sniffing the grass. In other words, it seemed to work.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I tried the same thing the other day with a big golden retriever who came out onto the road towards me barking angrily. I stopped and used my most deep loud voice and shouted "No! GO HOME!!!" and pointed away. He stopped right away, hung his head in shame and ran off home. I was amazed. This may not work with german shepards or dobermans, but I think it has a good chance with goldens and labs, etc.
I keep pepper spray at hand's reach on my frame with a bungee.
If i was ganged up on by nasty dogs like you describe, I would stop my bike and spray them. They would probably never chase my bike again. If their owners won't teach them I guess somebody else has to. You could be seriously hurt.

[rheidis73]

Hi there...Welcome to our little world here at TE...I have to deal with a lot of dogs where I live also and I have found that just yelling at them is the best thing. That is so far....I do carry pepper spray and keep that in my back packet in my jersey. I hate the idea of using my water up over a dog also. I am a big water drinker and there are too few places to stop a refuel.

I would be scared if I crashed over a dog. I am sur you are having to build your confindence back up again.

[CyclChyk]

I was at a bike shop last night and they had a type of spray specifically to deter dogs. Luckily I have never had this problem so I really didn't look at it to closely. Anybody else familar with this? Is it something that works??

[Dogmama]

I stopped and used my most deep loud voice and shouted "No! GO HOME!!!" and pointed away. He stopped right away, hung his head in shame and ran off home. I was amazed. This may not work with german shepards or dobermans, but I think it has a good chance with goldens and labs, etc.

It will work with Dobes, Shepherds, etc. I would not point anywhere because an adrenalized dog might think he is being threatened by your arm and attack.

Re: pepper spray, mace, etc. My experience is that if the dog is really "open for business" they don't work. The dog will think that the strange-thing-with-the-big-head-on-the-bike attacked him and it could enrage him further. The best you could hope for is a momentary pause that allows you to sprint away. A German Shepherd can run 30 mph, though, so you better be a darn good sprinter!

Liberty, I would offer up two suggestions:

1. Find another route if possible.

2. Contact animal control and your local police. These owners need to get their dogs under control. Did you happen to get pictures of your accident? Any witnesses? A letter from a lawyer can be a good deterrent too.

I'm sorry this happened to you. It makes all dog owners look bad.

[xeney]

You know, the situation you describe is so awful that I don't think I would ride that route. I would definitely not rely on pepper spray or tabasco water or a deep commanding voice for protection. Those things will work on a dog that is just being unruly, but it sounds like you are dealing with dogs that are very dangerously aggressive.

I don't know how it works in your area, but our Animal Control is nearly useless. They are severely understaffed -- they share a department with parking enforcement! -- and officers are only available for about four hours a day, and they don't even take calls outside of that time. We had a pack of near-feral, very aggressive dogs roaming our neighborhood and killing cats and menacing people for over a year, and Animal Control never responded to calls.

Then one time that pack of dogs menaced me and my lab when we were out for a walk, and I went home and filed a police report. I told the police that Animal Control had failed to do anything about the problem, and I gave the address of the "owner" of the dogs. And those dogs were gone within a couple of weeks.

I would call the police and report those owners. If the police do not want to take the report, then you need to get very aggressive with Animal Control, because dogs who behave that way are very dangerous dogs and they are going to kill someone. It will probably not be you, it will probably be a child, and the authorities need to do something about it.

[BikeMomma]

I love dogs, but when it comes to dealing with them on the road, it angers me to no end that their owners don't bother to take responsibilty for their containment. Makes me want to strangle first the dogs, then the owners!

Anyway, before using pepper spray or water, what I've found is that simply yelling/saying "NO!" in a firm owner-like voice will either make them hesitate enough to enable me to get away or in best-case, has actually stopped them in their tracks. You figure most dogs are at least trained to know what "no" means. However, bear in mind that this doesn't always work (some dogs are reeeeally dense).

Outside of that, my next defense would be the water, but you've already said you'd rather not use it. I do have pepper spray, but I rarely bring it on my rides because I'm not confident that I'd be able to point it in the right direction in a hurried situation. I can just see myself spraying ME instead of the dog! :rolleyes:

What Dogmama said about the Animal Control is right on. Drive by, get the address, and report them. A threat of legal action is never a good thing. Do that now, don't wait. Remember, it's probably not just you who is having problems. I'm a constant procrastinator -- I and others that I ride with kept put off calling about this stupid black lab that used to come at us on our group rides and on my solo ones. Well, it wasn't long before it actually did make someone crash (he was ok).

Since you would already have their address, send them a postcard, let them know that you have a right to ride on public roads and their dog is a problem (sign it anonymously). Be as nice or as terse as you feel you need to be, but if they know someone has singled them out, they might bother to install measures to contain the dog to their yard.

Good luck & be safe!
~BikeMomma

[SandyLS]

Hubby has resorted to Halt, a pepper spray designed especially as a dog deterent, several times. The results have always been effective. The most amazing thing is not that the dogs stop dead in their tracks and then head off in another direction, but on future rides past the same dogs they seem to have lost all interest in chasing us. We carry it in a holster on our handle bars. I don't know if it is helpful in all cases, but so far it has worked for us even with some pretty large and agressive acting dogs. Our local bike shop won't carry the product. His wife thinks that it is cruel. As a dog lover and owner of two (fenced yard) I tend to think that the injuries to a dog that runs out into the road would be even worse.

[rheidis73]

Hubby has resorted to Halt, a pepper spray designed especially as a dog deterent, several times. The results have always been effective. The most amazing thing is not that the dogs stop dead in their tracks and then head off in another direction, but on future rides past the same dogs they seem to have lost all interest in chasing us. We carry it in a holster on our handle bars. I don't know if it is helpful in all cases, but so far it has worked for us even with some pretty large and agressive acting dogs. Our local bike shop won't carry the product. His wife thinks that it is cruel. As a dog lover and owner of two (fenced yard) I tend to think that the injuries to a dog that runs out into the road would be even worse.

I agree with you Sandy about the pepper spray. I have worked for animal control and we do carry pepper spray and will use it if need be. I did ask my boss (veterinarian) if pepper spray would cause damage to the eyes and he said no. If you think about it, if pepper spray can stop a 200 pound man, it sure would have a good effect on a 70 pound dog. I would much rather be cruel and spray the dog (if it needed to be done) then have the thing knock me off my bike and then start chewing on me.

I also would carry pepper spray that would be used against grizzly bears in the mountians when I would go hiking. I have heard of people that have used spray on the bears and has worked to be able to get away.

I am a complete animal lover myself and am big against abuse...but if it is going to save a wreck for me or the dog, I would much rather use it. Dogs are smart, it would take only one time and the next time, I could see them running the other way...Just my opinion :D

[madisongrrl]

I agree with you Sandy about the pepper spray. I have worked for animal control and we do carry pepper spray and will use it if need be. I did ask my boss (veterinarian) if pepper spray would cause damage to the eyes and he said no. If you think about it, if pepper spray can stop a 200 pound man, it sure would have a good effect on a 70 pound dog. I would much rather be cruel and spray the dog (if it needed to be done) then have the thing knock me off my bike and then start chewing on me.



The animal behaviorists that I know have told me that it has been their experience that pepper spray will indeed make a truly aggressive dog MORE aggressive. They have recommended direct stop citronella spray.

[annie]

Dogs scare me while on the bike. Always have, always will. But it won't stop me from riding. I used to carry Halt........... used it a couple of times with little result. Tried plain water spraying. Tried yelling "No!" Nothing seemed very effective. I now call out, firmly, "STAY -- STAY......." and that seems to work the best. Why? I don't know, maybe it's a command that the dog is accustomed to hearing. I also try to keep myself in a calm, unafraid state. _Most_ of the time it works. When it doesn't, I end up screaming and cursing, at dog and owners, and sprinting my life out to get away. :o I don't know that there is any one solution. I suspect not. I will definitely avoid certain routes if I know there is an agressive dog. Dogs have been a problem for cyclists since they've both co-existed, it seems. I wish there a good answer for the problem.

annie

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

My take is that if a dog is really trying to bite you it will bite you whether you are speeding away or stopped.
I think it might be good to stop and get OFF one's bike and stand with the bike between you and the dog and command "No! Go Home!" and/or get out your spray at the same time. Most dogs want to CHASE you, that's what excites them. I don't think most of us can outspeed a full-tilt running dog- I sure can't! Take away their ability to chase you and perhaps they will change their mind. I don't think they expect one to stop and become a "normal" disapproving human on two legs.

[emily_in_nc]

Hi liberty!

If you search this forum you'll find a zillion posts about dealing with dogs, some of them mine. I fractured my pelvis in three places in April 2005 after a close encounter with two dogs. It sounds like you need medical attention for your shoulder and probably some physical therapy, and it is certainly possible to get reimbursed for your medical bills and any bike-related repairs, etc. you need due to your crash, at least if there is a leash law in your county or city. I filed a claim with the dog owner's homeowner's insurance and got all my out-of-pocket expenses paid, but that was many months after my accident, after all medical care and PT was complete. Save all receipts and document everything in case you do decide to try to get some compensation for your accident and any expenses resulting from it. Chances are you'll be just fine, but it's hard to predict whether you might end up with chronic shoulder problems.

It took me a long time to work up my courage to ride again. I have carried HALT (available at www.nashbar.com, by the way) for years, but couldn't get to it in time when I had my accident as the dogs came out of nowhere so fast. I have added an Air Zound air horn to my handlebars (do a search in the forum and you can read more about that too), and I do not hesitate to stop and get off my bike (as I did once last week when a very friendly golden retriever walked right in front of my front tire) if a dog approaches, friendly or otherwise. I have only had to use the air horn a couple of times, but it works! It is very loud. Halt works great if the dog gets close enough to be sprayed, but they often don't, or if there are more than one, it's very hard to fire at both! I have found that often just holding up the container and pointing it at them is enough to stop them from coming at me, though; they seem to have instincts about "guns" or things like them. Nashbar also makes a little $2 handlebar mount for Halt that I have on my handlebars so it's easy to access. Yes, my bike is a lot geekier these days, but I feel safer! :D

I am still nervous about dogs, and there are some routes I simply won't take because known mean, loose dogs are sometimes there, but I finally decided I couldn't give up cycling over it. All the suggestions given here are good, but as many people say, there is no one way of handling dogs -- every situation is different.

Good luck, and I hope you'll go to your doctor to take a look at your shoulder. I am very sorry that happened to you, and I truly know what you are going through! :(

Emily

[liberty]

You guys are great. I read on another site that one cyclist who is also a police officer recommends using a police whistle. As far as my injuries are concerned: the accident was only three miles from my house, and about seven from my parents. So I walked back to the owner's house (he was outside, but hadn't seen the accident) and called my parents. They flipped out as I was doing an early morning ride (to avoid dogs, ha, ha) and managed to wake them up. I'm not too coherent in the morning anyway, and adding pain and shock to the mix wasn't very comforting to them. They rushed over and then called the cops. So a police report was filed. Owners have said they will take care of medical expenses. I went to Urgent Care, x-rays were taken. Nothing broken, but the doctor was worried about muscle damage. Doctor thought I'd be back on the bike within the week, but that didn't happen. When the pain persisted, I went to the chiropractor for therapy. And now things are looking tons better. Still some ache and soreness, but tons better than before. Was able to do 24 miles today on the hybrid without feeling it in the shoulder. Next test is the road bike! Anyway, I have photos of the injuries and bruises, a copy of the police report naming me as the victim, and am going to get the damage report from the bike shop this week. Really hoping and praying this all gets resolved quickly.

[emily_in_nc]

Oh good! You didn't mention any of that in your first post, so I was concerned that you were suffering without any medical care. Glad you've had things checked out and that the dog owners have agreed to pay your medical expenses. That's great. I hope they have also agreed to keep their dogs properly restrained, though -- ultimately, that's even more important, to keep you or another cyclist from being terrified and/or hurt in the future.

Emily

[mimitabby]

one more voice on not trying to outrun dogs. Stop your bike if you can before they get anywhere near you. Then stand tall BEHIND the bike and tell the dog bad dog, go home!
A big nasty looking dog challenged us on a very lonely country road. We stopped and told him to go home and he went!

[madisongrrl]

My take is that if a dog is really trying to bite you it will bite you whether you are speeding away or stopped.
I think it might be good to stop and get OFF one's bike and stand with the bike between you and the dog and command "No! Go Home!" and/or get out your spray at the same time. Most dogs want to CHASE you, that's what excites them. I don't think most of us can outspeed a full-tilt running dog- I sure can't! Take away their ability to chase you and perhaps they will change their mind. I don't think they expect one to stop and become a "normal" disapproving human on two legs.

Excellent advice...I second it.

[rheidis73]

The animal behaviorists that I know have told me that it has been their experience that pepper spray will indeed make a truly aggressive dog MORE aggressive. They have recommended direct stop citronella spray.

Thank you Madison for the extra advise...It is good to have more ideas with all the dogs that we encounter everyday! :D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The animal behaviorists that I know have told me that it has been their experience that pepper spray will indeed make a truly aggressive dog MORE aggressive. They have recommended direct stop citronella spray.

Well at least the dog won't be distracted by mosquitos while it's tearing you to shreds.... :eek:

(JUST KIDDING!!!) :D

[rheidis73]

Well at least the dog won't be distracted by mosquitos while it's tearing you to shreds.... :eek:

(JUST KIDDING!!!) :D
You are too funny..Sounds like my sense of humor! :D

[TsPoet]

This thing stops almost anything in its tracks (at least temporarily)

http://www.deltacycle.com/product.php?g=1

(note, that's just a random website where they are sold, don't know anything about that company).

I've also seen it used to stop a wandering car from continuing its way into a bikes way, the driver stopped dead.
very loud.

[emily_in_nc]

This thing stops almost anything in its tracks (at least temporarily)

http://www.deltacycle.com/product.php?g=1

(note, that's just a random website where they are sold, don't know anything about that company).

I've also seen it used to stop a wandering car from continuing its way into a bikes way, the driver stopped dead.
very loud.

Yes, this is the airhorn I have now too. I have only had to use it ~4 times on dogs. All but one retreated/stopped in their tracks. One continued to chase -- I wondered if he was deaf. I got mine from Nashbar but they may not carry them anymore.

Emily

[liberty]

Guys, I need your advice/counsel. Just found out the couple who own the dogs has decided to pay out of their pocket (as opposed to insurance) and have stated they will only pay the initial $700 for urgent care and x-rays. That leaves me with $500 for bike repairs and chiropractic therapy. The choice is: drop the matter and accept their check, or take it to small claims court. The deal is that they live very close to me and for me to bike in this neighborhood I will have to go past their house every time. The last thing I want is animosity going on here... The county I live in does not have a leash law. The guy was upset that I went to urgent care instead of the emergency room, because he said it was more expensive. Mind you I didn't call for an ambulance (expensive), and my mom (who picked me up) took me to urgent care since I had been there previously...

As for the $500 bills that isn't covered: $120 for bike repairs, new helmet, mirror, and bar tape (the bike shop's service agreement covered the majority of the repairs for free, and gave me half price on the replacement items); and $320 for chiropractic therapy, which we chose instead of the MRI the urgent care doctor recommended. The chiropractor also adjusted the bill down.

The shoulder is better now. I just honestly feel like I have tried to be more than considerate in this. Don't want to take advantage of them in any way. Have any of you had dealings with this type of legal - bike issues??????? I'm not scared of small claims court. But the thought of wondering what "could" happen any time I pass their house......... FYI, I don't have medical insurance.

[Dogmama]

Reminds me of the age old saying - would you rather be right or be happy? Is it worth $500 to pursue?

[xeney]

Ugh. I hate bullies, and that is what these people are, if they are trying to intimidate you into not pursuing it. I completely understand not wanting to antagonize them, but on the other hand, you are going to have to pass that house anyway, and do you think it is going to be less scary if you have let them intimidate you into not making them pay for the damage they caused?

That's a real question, not a rhetorical one. I would not really blame you if you decided to let it go for the sake of neighborhood peace, but me, I would probably be so mad at the attempted intimidation that I would say, fine, see you in court. I mean, it's not like they have a defense, right?

[Tuckervill]

That's what they've decided, but that doesn't mean you have to agree. What is stopping you from calling their insurance company, anyway? They think they're going to get out of this without paying their whole deductible or something? I don't get it. If their deductible is $700, then what difference does it make to them if their insurance pays the rest? I'm curious to know how they came to the $700 figure.

You do have another choice besides settling or small claims court. If you know a friendly attorney, you can ask him/her to write a demand letter which basically threatens a lawsuit without actually filing one. But first I would just tell them that $700 is just not good enough. You have no obligation to save these people any money. They're getting it good just because the bike shop is helping you out.

The other thing that occurs to me is that you don't know if you're going to be completely healed or whether the effects of therapy are going to last. You have a right to all the therapy that is needed to get you back as right as possible, and you don't have an obligation to pay for it out of your pocket, since they have admitted fault.

Don't just give in. Hold out for all that you're entitled to--even if it means you have to demand more than that to get it. They should at least be coerced into filing with their insurance company.

Good luck,
Karen

[Artisan]

How comfortable are you emotionally and financially taking care of the 500 dollars yourself? Are going to feel resentment for paying it yourself and/or can you afford to take on the additional 500 debt to your budget? I wouldn't put too much into how "they" are going to feel, you have to do what is best for you.

When I had my run in with a dog, I ended up paying the 250 that my insurance didn't cover. It didn't hurt my budget very much so I wasn't so stressed over it. The owners received a very hefty fine, had they not, I would have pursued payment for my medical bills.

[eclectic]

I am with tuckervill - I wouldn't settle but then I am not in a financial position to eat $500. small claims court is pretty painless and they can go to their insurance company - yes their rates will go up for a couple of years but that is the price they pay for owning a dog that runs loose


On a related note I learned the VERY hard way to never go directly to the dogs owners to work out the problem. I was dealing w/ my next door neighbors who never had shelter for their lab even in -25 weather, the dog would sleep on the ice and snow, also it would bark all night.

As things are normally done in this neck of the woods I tried talking to the owners first (who are from out of state) on numerous occasions with no results.

I finally told them I had called the Humane Society and would be calling the police and animal control in the future. In response they filed a tresspassing notice on me and also a disorderly conduct (claimed I came barging in their house :confused: ) - they lied all the way through it and no one EVER asked my side - it finally got thrown out - after I had been arrested, posted bail, and spent $500 on a lawyer.

Luckily they have rid themselves of the dog

So moral of the story is start with the police

[Dogmama]

You do have another choice besides settling or small claims court. If you know a friendly attorney, you can ask him/her to write a demand letter which basically threatens a lawsuit without actually filing one. But first I would just tell them that $700 is just not good enough. You have no obligation to save these people any money. They're getting it good just because the bike shop is helping you out.
Karen


Excellent point. I've seen this work several times. Just one letter can instill a bit of fear. Hopefully $500 worth of fear.

[emily_in_nc]

As I may have posted in this thread or in another recently, when I had a cycling accident due to two dogs running out at me, I was able to file a claim with the dog owners' homeowner's insurance co. and have ALL my expenses paid. The fact that our county has a leash law may have made a difference, though. And they did have to cooperate by providing me their HOI information so that I could file a claim. They never offered me to pay out of pocket (my claim was around $4000, so probably out of their price range anyway).

I don't know how much small claims court costs, but if it's a lot less than $500 to file a claim, that's probably what I would do. That was most likely going to be my next move if things hadn't worked out with the insurance co. And yes, a letter from a lawyer can indeed help at times, too.

I feel your pain, though, at having to go past their house every time you ride and worrying what they might do if you do file a claim against them. That really stinks. I might go as far as to consider moving. Very drastic, but so is being stressed out in your own neighborhood every time you ride. Even if they never seek any kind of revenge, it would freak me out just worrying about the chance that they might every time I rode past there.

Good luck - let us know what you do.

Emily

[DDH]

Please don't let them bully you. I know that you still have to ride by their house, but if they are not made to take responsibility and feel they have intimidated you out of their responsiblity then you will still be riding by their house with loose dogs which could cause problems all over again.
Leash law or not they are still responsible for their animals.

You have to make your own decision, but I just hate to see a bully or irresponsible person get away with this kind of stuff. Really ticks me off.

Who does he think he is being upset about where you went or should go to see a doctor. I cannot believe the nerve of people. He should count his lucky stars that you are trying to be resonable with him and not sueing him for everything he has.

I think I would be finding me a lawyer and at least get a consultation.
Keep us updated on what happens though, whatever you decide.

[CyclChyk]

The thing about small claims court brings two things to mind.

1. you have a court battle (albeit small) with your neighbor which would make biking past their house in future rides worrysome.
2. lets say you win. All that means is that you get a judgement against them. It does not mean they pay you. You could not only lose out on the $500 bucks, but the $700 they offered as well. The judgement would only pose a problem to them in the event they wanted to buy another house, refinance, etc. Yeh it will drop their credit rating, but alot of people feel principle is more important. I see it everyday in real estate lending.

I am sure they do not want to file it with their home owners insurance because their rates will sky rocket, plus if they have a $1000 or more deductible, that would only hurt them and not really be of any benefit due to what is already coming out of pocket.

If it were me, I would suggest to them that you split the $500 50/50. That way it shows you are trying to be considerate of their viewpoint and at the same time, protecting yours. This should help keep the air friendly as well. Small claims court is anything but friendly.

[xeney]

I just saw your post on another thread that said the dogs came out and chased you again yesterday. Good grief. I cannot believe that, leash law or no, there is nothing that can be done about these dogs. I would agree with CyclChyk about this:


That way it shows you are trying to be considerate of their viewpoint and at the same time, protecting yours. This should help keep the air friendly as well.

... if you were dealing with normal, sane, responsible people, but it seems pretty clear that you are dealing with crazy people who don't care if their dogs wind up killing someone.

CyclChyk makes good points about the likelihood that you would not actually recover in small claims court, but I do think you need to make a police report EVERY TIME those dogs chase you and knock you off your bike. Most states have laws against keeping a dangerous animal, and those laws are part of the criminal law, not just local leash ordinances. You absolutely should not have to be dealing with this every time you want to ride your bike.

And I hate to say it, but I do not think it is safe for you to ride there. If the dogs are still loose and still chasing you and continuing to menace you after you are off the bike, you may not have suffered the worst injuries you are going to suffer, not by a long shot. This is a very scary and dangerous situation.

[liberty]

You ladies are wonderful. It makes such a big difference knowing you care and sympathize. Non-cyclists/bikers just don't get it, and it frustrates me. All that goes to say that I appreciate your input and concern, and to know you want to be updated encourages my bicycling life. Xeney, since you brought up the other post I will explain what happened yesterday. Forgive me if you don't like how detailed I get, but I am going to use this as documentation should the future need arise...

I was going up the hill by their house and heard the dog barking. I unclipped my right foot, and prepared to get off the bike in case the dog was loose. I truly felt the dog would be tied up if it was outside. NOPE! Here the thing comes, bearing down on me, and I promply stop the bike and unclip the left foot to dismount (most ungracefully, I might add... How come there is no mention of how to unclip the other foot once you are stopped? It is the hardest part!!).

I put the bike between me and the dog, and try to figure out what to do next. This brings me to the next sidenote: if you are supposed to deal with dogs by dismounting, what do you do once you are on foot? Walk away carefully? Ignore the dog until it stops barking? Stand there like a dope?

In my case the dog kept barking up a storm and I stood there like a dope. Tried to walk away, only the thing would flip out and come after me. Several times it tried to get around the bike, but would stop when I moved the bike to keep it between us. I must have stood there for several minutes, until finally the next door neighbor (mother-in-law of owner's dog, plus her dog was Dog #2 of accident) came out. Shoo, she said. Dog ignored her totally. She said she was sorry the accident had happened, I said I was sorry about it too, that now I was having to deal with being scared of dogs. Blah, blah, blah. She saw how the dog flipped out every time I tried to move away. I just couldn't believe this was happening. She gave me permission to squirt the dog with my water bottle. Which I did. It seemed to work that time. Feel free to ask me about it via PM. She said if the dog came after me again I could squirt it. And that I could go. She said I was safe to go now. How is that for a comment???????

You know, I am a pretty optimistic person. Tranquil. Get along with everyone. That type a gal. So I tend to think the best of people. I find myself shocked: that they don't see how lucky they are that I'm not a "sue you for all you're worth girl"; or that they don't have their dog tied up given they admitted in front of a cop that cyclists go up and down their road all the time. Do they not realize it is going to happen again??? I'm not out for revenge or anything. But this is crazy.

Anyway, no more griping. Long story short, I fell yesterday, but it was my own stupidity and the left clipless pedal at fault, not the dogs; they were several miles away by that time. I am hoping to talk a friend into biking that route tomorrow, so that if the dog comes out again I can have an eye witness (outside of their household). Dog does it again tomorrow and I will call animal control. Yep. Now, about the other three dogs further down the road.......

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Geez!!! That's a HORRIBLE situation!!
Honestly, I would NEVER put up with this. Order yourself some dog pepper spray from Ebay (the kind with the flip-top so you can't squirt it at your own self). Test it once quickly (outdoors!) to make sure it works. Then it's good for about 8 more 1 second shots.
Next time the dogs come at you, get off your bike, say "NO!" to them loudly, and calmly squirt them in their faces. They'll likely run off yelping and never ever bother you again. It won't hurt them permanently, but they will not forget it. You may have to do it for each dog. If they are especially dumb you may need to do it twice per dog. If their owners don't like it....too bad.
I'm an animal lover but this is really too much. Loose dogs terrorizing people on public roads?!? You have the RIGHT to travel the public road safely- they DON'T have the right to take that away from you.

[Artisan]

I'm shocked that they still are allowing their dog to run freely. Given how irresponsible they are being it might be in your best interest and the other cyclist in the area for you to take them to court. They are not only putting you in danger but their dog as well.

[xeney]

Yeah, for real. I was thinking this morning of how this would have played out where I grew up, out in the country surrounded by sheep ranchers who did not tolerate off-leash dogs. The next cyclist riding by would have had a handgun and those dogs would be history.

I'm not advocating that! This is just a completely foreign concept to me, people letting dogs run around loose with no repercussions. In the cities you have leash laws, in the rural area where I'm from it just would not have been tolerated. (That is part of why I don't live there anymore.)

[CyclChyk]

I'm thinking Xeney might be onto something here. Apparently these people are just plain NUMB!

I'm thinking police reports might be the best way to go here.

You know its sad, becuase I lovelovelove dogs so much and I would never dream of hurting one, but if one of those dogs end up dead in the road because it was loose and got hit by a car, it would serve them right. What is it going to take to get through to these people???

Yup. File police reports. Because if these people aren't responsible enough to take proper care of their dogs, someone else will when the law ends up taking them away.

[Geonz]

THe other option is what one of our riders does... tosses chunks of PowerBars out for the critters. THey love him.

It so doesn't address the real problem here, though. I would go for the pepper spray *and* police reports.

[cosc]

My experience won't give you much advice, but this is what I did after a dog chased me (seemed like about a mile). He was a mean sounding blue heeler. I kept thinking he was giving up the chase, but in reality was just catching his breath sucking behind my wheel to make a new attack. After the incident I called the owner to restrain her dog before riding. The 4th time I called she was apathetic and asked why I didn't ride the bike path the city spent so much money on.:mad: The path only goes 1 mile, and does not even get me passed her house. I quit calling her and the dog has came out for a short chase, but no extended chases. I haven't been riding that way since the road work. There is not many choices for good roads to ride. Looking forward to dogs on the route definitely dampened my enthusiasm to get on my bike. Glad your able to ride again and hope you receive a just reimbursment.

[liberty]

Dampening my enthusiasm is right... I really wanted to ride yesterday. But I just couldn't get up the desire/courage/heart to go. Chances are the dogs will be out again. And I don't feel like fighting every time I ride, you know? If it was just those two dogs at that one corner then it wouldn't be such a big deal (but it would still be a big deal). But three more one way, two more the opposite direction and they are both only 16 mile routes!!!!!!! I might have another way I can go. Need to check it out first. And hopefully it would only be a two dog route. The emotional side of this is more than I figured. Ack.

[emily_in_nc]

Dampening my enthusiasm is right... I really wanted to ride yesterday. But I just couldn't get up the desire/courage/heart to go. Chances are the dogs will be out again. And I don't feel like fighting every time I ride, you know? If it was just those two dogs at that one corner then it wouldn't be such a big deal (but it would still be a big deal). But three more one way, two more the opposite direction and they are both only 16 mile routes!!!!!!! I might have another way I can go. Need to check it out first. And hopefully it would only be a two dog route. The emotional side of this is more than I figured. Ack.

So sorry liberty ~ I know I would be feeling the same as you, which is why I made the semi-serious suggestion to move. Doing so would probably feel like letting "them" win; otoh, it's also taking your life back to remove yourself from an untenable situation. There just have to be better, more bike-friendly places to ride. Other than that, you're pretty much limiting yourself to driving and parking to ride in safer areas. I wouldn't want to ride in your 'hood either! :mad:

It's just not right -- and as someone who had her entire life changed by a dog-induced accident (my pelvis will never be 100% the same, I have a large numb spot on my upper right thigh from where they cut nerves to do my surgery, I get achy and tight in that area, get SI joint pain on longer rides, etc) -- I am supremely empathetic to your situation. :(

(((((((((((((((((( liberty ))))))))))))))))))))))

Have you tried the Air Zound 2 air horn? I've got that on my road bike now. It may not work on all the dogs you encounter, but it will probably work on most of them. A small price to pay for piece of mind; but no matter how "well-armed" you are, with horn, Halt, etc, just knowing that dogs may or probably will come running out at you is enough to take most of the fun out of a ride and/or provide enough motivation not to ride, just like you experienced. Been there. :(

Keep us posted, okay?

Emily

[liberty]

So I deliberated this morning for several hours on whether I was gonna ride or not. And I made myself go. After all, most times you are afraid of something it turns out to be a non-issue. So I went. Got up to the house, and the owner was outside. Told me to wait a minute because the dog was out. So he went to put the dog away. I asked him if I could call him before I left the house on future rides and then he would know to lock up the dogs. He was great with that. I just hope after this whole thing is over that we are still on speaking terms, as it would be wonderful to think those dogs are over and done with... (We didn't speak at all of finances) Rest of the ride was dogless. Yippee! And you know what, I feel like me again. Not fearful anymore. I'm sure on future rides I'll have to keep confronting this to some degree, but for now I feel invincible and in love with biking again. Did 15 miles of hills and my legs are tired but happy. My lungs did better than I thought. So maybe the body is adjusting quickly! Only quirk today was the stop sign at the top of a hill. Gonna have to practice clipping in and starting uphill from a standstill...

[BeeLady]

Most herding-type dogs can't resist a moving target unless they are very well trained. If that was the only route I could go and I had to go that way, I would get off my bike and start walking it prior to entering the "dog's territory" which is probably the start of the yard, not the gate or area it runs out of. It might bark and come out to greet you but walking shouldn't incite its herding/prey instincts.

Meanwhile, I would definitly be pursuing having the dog owners contacted by the police or sheriff or animal control so you wouldnt have to be walking your bike. Who is the elected official in your county or precinct? A letter with carbon copy to dog's owner might get some attention.

If your are a really patient, tranquil type you might be able to acclimate the dogs to your movement past them but this could take weeks and is really not your job.

I have had success with yelling "No. Bad dog" but then again I'm training a rottweiller/shephard cross pup and am at the top of my authoritarian dog-voice at the moment.

Good luck and get those letters flying! My the dimwits with the dogs don't know your officials are lame in this area and will do something on their own.

[quint41]

Thank God I have not encountered dog problems. (There is one house that lets it's dogs outside and they lay in the road, but I haven't been chased ... yet.) I take exception to the statement that some dogs are dense ... they are not dense, they have not been taught to be good neighbors by their dense owners! Dogs are not born understanding language and human expectations, they must be taught.

And, for that reason, I would circle back in my car if necessary, get their address and report them to the dog warden. If your animal control stinks, then I'd call the police. And if the police appeared sluggish, I'd tell them that I bike that route frequently, and if a bicyclist ever gets hurt because of the dog and the town had failed to address the problem, there could be legal problems for both the dog owner AND the town. Using a form of the phrase "legal action" usually gets things rolling.

I live in a neighborhood with more than our share of inconsiderate a**hole dog owners (let the dog out at 5:30 am to bark, let the dog run across the street and kill the neighbor's lawn, etc.). It's an amazing thing.

[emily_in_nc]

Liberty, it is great that you got out and rode and that the dog owner seems to be "trying". I wouldn't want to have to call someone every time I went out on a ride, but it's better than the alternative. Glad you had a good ride!

Emily

[liberty]

Well, Ladies, I totally have dropped the ball on keeping you up-to-date on what happened with this. Sorry. I was replying to a different dog thread and remembered. So, here is the scoop: my arm and shoulder are fine now. I have been back on the bike and everything is working normally. I am still dog-shy and don't go on my back roads as often. Feel like I lost a lot of freedom, as while on the roads I am more attentive to the possibility of a dog behind every bush and not on enjoying the ride...

The dog owners WOULD NOT BUDGE in paying for more than the initial medical bills. It was getting to be an issue of whether to sue or not. And since I had far too many other things hanging over my head at the time and was stressing out big time, I let it go. They wrote a check for $750, and I ate the rest. What do I wish I had done differently? I wish I had been riding with someone, as a witness would have made a huge difference legally speaking. I wish I had gotten their home owner's insurance information while there with the cop. What am I thankful for in all of this? Falling isn't such a big deal. The dogs didn't bite me. I can bike past that house, knowing the dogs are tied up (since I have to call before I ride now... ack... But hey, a peaceful solution) And it gave me the opportunity to join a wonderful cycling forum and hang out at my bike shop. War stories. Thanks for being there, gals. I appreciate it.