Bike Shoe Advice, please

[ace]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, and very happy to have found it! I just started riding with my local club this year with their Light/no drop group, and I am loving it. My longest rides to date have been 40 miles. I figured that since I'm now the only one on my ride who rides w/o clipless pedals (and I'm the only one who rides a Hybrid!), the time had come to start using them. So last weekend, I got a pair of Shimano Sport bike shoes and spd pedals. I chose the recessed cleat shoes because I'm planning to go on one of those guided rides in Italy next year, and I want shoes I can (sorta) walk in. Anyway, I did have one fall, first day I took the new pedals out, but I didn't break anything and have some lovely bruises. I'd been told that everyone falls at least once, so no big deal.

HOWEVER, as soon as I clip in, the entire bottom of one of my feet starts to ache so bad that I just want to rip the shoes off. I've been putting my orthotics in the bike shoes, figuring that if I need them for my other shoes, I need them for the bike shoes. I'm not sure what's happening, but my guess is that because of the stiffness of the shoe, the bottom of my foot is cramping. Do you think this will go away, or do you think I should try different shoes, or.....? I ALWAYS have problems finding shoes that fit anyway, because my foot is normal width and my heel is narrow, so it feels like my shoes are coming off, plus one foot is almost 1/2 a size bigger than the other.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I'm a little freaked that riding is now such a painful experience, and I've only done a couple of miles at a time with the pedals since I got them.

Cheers,
Ace (aka Amy), from Northern California

[spokewench]

You probably should not wear your walking/running orthotics for cycling. Cycling and running/walking orthotics are made different because the needs of your feet are different when walking and cycling. I'm not sure what your issues are, i.e. pronation?, shorter leg? whatever, but if you need orthotics on the bike, you should get specific orthotics for the bike.

Why not try the shoes without the orthotic for one ride and see what happens. You should have some sort of small insert however. If your shoes did not come with one, you should cut one to size from an old gym shoe or buy one at the store.

You will soon find out if you need an orthotic for riding but I would try it without. My husband has a short leg and his feet pronate pretty badly. When he was racing in his 30's-40's doing lots of mileages and repetition, he would get knee tendinitis and very, very tight Iliotibial bands (this is common with most cyclists). He went to a special guy who does cycling orthotics, they looked at him on the bike (videoed him) and determined what to do with his orthotic to make him comfortable and it worked!

Now that he does not ride quite as much nor as hard, he does not wear the orthotics and seems to be fine. I think it is also because he is so used ot cycling now too, but that is my theory.

[Cassandra_Cain]

Hi Amy and welcome :)

Sorry to hear about all the problems you are having with those shoes and your feet - yikes!

I would imagine there is a combination out there that can work for you.

My feet differ by a 1/2 size as well - I always fit a shoe according to my bigger foot. So if the smaller foot feels loose I'll wear a thicker sock or maybe 2 socks to compensate. That usually does the trick. Worst case scenario you can always get 2 pairs of shoes, a 1/2 size apart which is usually easy to do with european sizes (ie....40, 41, etc).

The basic premise (one of them anyway) of a road shoe is for it to be stiff. That way you transfer more power from your body to the pedals vs. a softer tennis shoe that flexes.

Part of your pain could be the way you are pedalling, or it could be the shoe itself is not a good fit.

BTW - I also have flat feet and I definitely recommend you wear your orthotics with your biking shoes. Otherwise you'll be overpronating which can create a huge set of problems from your feet on up to your knees and hips.

I would try your existing shoes with the orthotics, I'd also have someone watch your pedalling technique, check your bike fit, and see what happens - if none of that works then you may need different shoes after all.

Good luck!

[ace]

Like you needed to know more about my feet :-)

In reply to why I have the orthotics, it's because I have flat feet and was getting foot pain many years ago, and am kinda knock-kneed (that's pronation, right?). They were prescribed for everyday use, not for running or sports.

[TsPoet]

Ace,
I'm a recumbent rider - I've been amazed ever since getting bent on the different advice given for the different types of bikes. So, take this with that in mind (might not apply). But, if you were to post this on a bent forum you would be told 2 things:
1) move your cleats for or aft - I'm guessing they are toward your toe on your shoe - move them back toward your arch and see if that helps.
2) loosen the laces over the sore part of your foot to give more "breathing room".

Also, I have a friend with plantar fascia (also a bent rider), he can only use pedals with a large platform, can't remember what brand of clipless pedals he uses, but he's tried several and the one that works is the one with the biggest clipping area.

Good luck,

[Cassandra_Cain]

lol - tell us all about your feet!

Let me ask you something. Can you say, put on a pair of running shoes (sans orthotics) and run a 5k w/o pain? More broadly, are you able to exercise w/o pain w/o orthotics?

I have rather flat feet - I leave a nice, full footprint on the beach :P

If I don't wear them, my feet roll excessively inward because of the virtual non-arch, which then throws my entire lower body out of alignment. Hello knee-hip-back pain :eek:

[ace]

Yes, I can do pretty much anything without foot pain (besides wear the damn bike shoes) as long as I have my orthotics in. I can't answer the 5k question, though- I don't run at all and haven't for years, I'm quite overweight and have back issues plus no ACL in one knee, so if I ran, that would probably be the end of me. My other challenge with club riding is that I have super strong legs, so I'm usually out in front on flats/slight inclines, but the hills (and I live in the Bay Area) are very challenging for me, because I'm about 60 pound overweight and have a very heavy hybrid (not that I think that makes a bit of difference- my bike is maybe about 5 lbs heavier than everyone else's, but the real issue is the surplus 60 lbs on my body. I'm working on that....

[Cassandra_Cain]

Hmmm, well that's the basic idea behind orthotics - is for you to be able to do things w/o pain. I can go w/o mine say, to sit in the office all day, but anything remotely active or involving lots of walking, and I need my inserts. I don't even really wear heels as it tends to give me knee pain.


So you do good in the flats but not as well in the hills? I'd say you are a budding time trialist :)

[ace]

Well, I'm not THAT speedy. Being in the front of that pack means smoking a bunch of riders who are going 9 miles an hour. But I'll tell you, I've learned so much about technique by riding with a led club ride (the leader screams at me if I don't shift down before stopping. He's incredibly bossy, but I've learned a ton.).

I'd say I'm more of an endurance rider than anything else at this point :-)

As long as I'm well-hydrated, electrolyted and fed, I feel like I can go forever (I had a couple of rides earlier in the season, those that involved 1500ft or more of climbing, where at about mile 15 I'd start getting a horrible headache which ended up lasting for about 24 hours. I resolved this by buying a 100 oz camelbak, filling it with GU2O, and making sure I drink that plus more). However, me and my granny gear have become well-acquainted on the hills. I'm learning that no amount of technique can overcome those extra pounds riding uphill.

However, given those extra pounds, I am like a bat out of hell on the downhills.

[bikerz]

However, given those extra pounds, I am like a bat out of hell on the downhills.Me too!

I had some pretty bad hot-foot with my Shiman SPD cleats and a couple of things have helped - one was getting some inserts from REI - that have some that are designed for cycling - I think they are color-coded - maybe the blue ones are for cycling. The other thing was to keep my shoes pretty loose. The spd shoes were like yours - mountain shoses with recessed cleats.

But what really helped was switching to full-on road shoes with Looks, which have a large platform. Good luck!

[ace]

Can you explain hot-foot, please?

Yeah, I was offered those inserts when I bought the shoes (got 'em at rei), but I didn't think I needed them because of my orthotics.

[Lenusik]

I always recommend to buy godd stuff even if it is expensive. I wear Specialized shoes for 2 years now. No issues, no pain, they are great. They have very good arch support too. My DH wears size 15 :D and has flat feet. He loves his Specialized shoes. But you cenrtainly need to check in with a fitter. It is possible that your feet are in the wrong position.

[CorsairMac]

hot-foot is a couple of things but basically it's when your foot feels hot or tingly or hurts or numb, has hot spots, pain in the toes, numbness in the toes....you get the picture.

It's caused by several things: shoes are too small, shoes are too tight, the cleat is pressing on an area of your foot that is troublesome, even the cleat surface could be too small, stagnation in your foot.....so on.

I used to ride SPDs and no matter where I put the cleat I had problems, I switched to Looks and Love them. Course I haven't done a century in them yet but my last century on the SPDs I was almost crippled with the pain in my feet by the end of the ride.

My suggestions would be along with every one else: try cycling inserts in your shoes, try moving your cleats backwards or forwards, try loosening your shoes, trying moving your feet inside your shoes (flex and splay the toes while you're riding)

Hopefully some/all of this will help.

[bcipam]

You didn't mention the shoes you are currently wearing. If you have not tried them - look at Sidi's (Genius 4 or 5). You also didn't mention your pedal and cleat system. Some systems don't always work with some feet type. I know I need a larger platform pedal. In addition, are you sure your cleat is positioned properly. Just alittle to far forward or back will cause problems.

I definitely would not use an orthodic or insert not made specifically for cycling. If your shoes are old, they most likely have broken down and need replacement.

[Quillfred]

I have a great Shimano mtn. bike shoe that has a three strap closure. When I first started using them, I had a fair amount of foot pain. What helped me greatly was to have the top two straps somewhat snug and the arch strap a little looser. Maybe you have already thried this and I apologize if I'm pointing out the obvious.

[ace]

I have Shimano sport shoes, spd cleats. They are lace up, with no straps.

Yeah, I don't think it's the type of cleats that are causing the problem, or probably even cleat placement, though it's possible- I'm not feeling one SINGLE area of pressure on my foot, it's an ache along the entire bottom of my foot, and it starts as soon as I clip in.

Thanks for the isuggestions, I'll try switching inserts, etc.

[Thistle]

Hi all,

I got a pair of Shimano Sport bike shoes and spd pedals.

I've been putting my orthotics in the bike shoes, figuring that if I need them for my other shoes, I need them for the bike shoes. plus one foot is almost 1/2 a size bigger than the other.




Hey Amy

I too wear orthotics, have one foot 1/2 size bigger than the other, but i've never put them in my shimano spd shoes. the bike shop told me not to, and i think it was good advice. i havent had much foot pain, sometimes a little towards the end of a ride, but it's usually cos i've tensed my feet up.

If you havent already, give it a go without them. If you are reluctant, i can understand, i can hardly walk without my orthotics, but i've been fine. If i'm cycling somewhere i will be walking, i carry them and another pair of shoes with me. A bit of a pain, but better than achingly sore feet.

Hope this helps.
Thea

[ace]

Eager to try out some of this advice, I went for a brief (3 m.) ride this afternoon, no orthotics, with the original insert that came with the shoe (the foam pad thing) and thicker socks than I've been wearing. No foot pain!!

I think I need to try 2 socks on one foot though, that shoe feels like I'm gonna slide out of it.

One thing I'm liking about riding clipless is that it's making me watch the road very, very carefully, because I still need some mental prep time to unclip.

[Thistle]

that's great that you had no foot pain on your ride :D it's a real shame the people who sold you the shoes didnt know about orthotics.... cos if you're like me you usually have to buy 1/2 size bigger to fit the orthotics. the guy at the bike shop convinced me not to put them in, so i bought a size to fit me without them... hence the smallest size i've bought since 92! and they are great.

hope you get many more pain free rides. foot pain sucks big time... i know :(

[Thistle]

[QUOTE=ace;114533]Eager to try out some of this advice, I went for a brief (3 m.) ride this afternoon, no orthotics, with the original insert that came with the shoe (the foam pad thing) and thicker socks than I've been wearing. No foot pain!!

QUOTE]

Ace, just wondered how you were going with or without the orthotics? I went to my physio for a bike fit yesterday (cos i've got sore wrists and wanted to make sure i had the setup right, and she specialises in bike stuff being a well-seasoned rider and does "bike prescriptions" :D isnt that the best term ever :D ) and during all the measuring and stuff i told her i had orthotics but dont wear them in my bike shoes... and this has been good for me ie no pain.

but... she said i probably should :confused: she told me to try it and see how i went. well i had them in yesterday arvo on the ride home, but they werent comfortable. I dont know if this is just cos i'm getting used to them ... and my new position on the bike (she says i ride like a cowboy with my knees turned out :p and cos i have one really messed up knee i need to straighten them and have them over my foot)

so i'm a bit sore in the knees today from the changed riding position, but since my feet were sore on the way home, just wondered how you got on with the whole orthotics question.

[KnottedYet]

Ask about "posting" the inner edge of each orthotic. The foot mechanics are different for walking vs. biking. A simple wedge (post) on the medial (inside) edge of the forefoot of your usual orthotic will usually turn it into a biking orthotic.

Specialized "Body Geometry" shoes have the posting built into the shoe so you can just put your orthotic in and out of the shoe without modifying the orthotic.

[ace]

Hey guys,

Thanks for checking to see how I'm doing!

So what happened was that I went to a LBS where I'd been told they had great fitters. They were sooo nice to me and did an extensive fit, moved my cleats, made a bunch of adjustments, got me some inserts (smartfeet). I had to go back cause the first adjustment didn't quite work. But after the second fitting I went for about a 25 mile ride and had zero pain.

I was afraid they'd be snotty with me when I went in, because I ride a hybrid and am a big woman, but turns out the owner of the store who did my fitting is even fatter than me! We bonded...

Plus it gave me an opportunity to talk to them about how I should approach buying my road bike in the spring. They had some beautiful entry level Serottas...I drooled.

Unfortunately I have been working literally 100 hours a week since, so I haven't touched my bike. I miss it......Can't wait until the case I'm working on slows down and I can at least ride around the freakin' block!

Cheers,
Amy