New Cross Country ride

[missliz]

I 'm thinking about splashing out on a new XC ride- one with full suspension. No Trecks or Cannondales- I can't abide the dealership here! I wanted to look at Gary fischer, but theres a big squabble over who's going to sell them, so that'll wait, I'm not buying it for a couple months. My LBS is quite enamoured of the Klein Palaminos, I'm, not exactly having a big bike orgasm over them but they do look sweet.
So who else makes a decent bike now? Or a nice dualie frame? With not ugly paint. 70 to 100mm in the front, maybe three inches at the rear. Actually- I might prefer a frame so I can have what I like... Hayes discs and SRAM drivetrain.
Any thoughts?

Lizzy

[Irulan]

I love my Kona King Kikapu they make two now, mine is what is now the Deluxe ( the top of the line one) Klein is a nice albiet agressive ride.

but maybe here's what you should look at:

bike porn alert...

http://www.sevencycles.com/bikes/pricemountain.html

[sno4rent]

I have a Gary Fisher and I LOVE it - it's not full suspension though. It's a Women's frame and fits perfectly. Good luck in your hunt for yet another bike!!! :D

~ Wendi

[missliz]

Yeah, Fischer makes some mighty sexy bikes- very glamourpuss! My shop has taken mighty fine care of me over many years, and it would unforgivable of me to go buy one from anybody else. They may have the Fischer dealership back in a month- who knows? But why piss off my guys. They can order me almost anything
Irulan, I know all about Sevens, thanks for the link though. I've seen them, petted them, never been allowed to try one LOL; their riders love them more than life. They're a little pricey, and really more than I was going to spend. I like the look of the Konas- but I couldn't read the specks so we'll see. Merlin has always turned me on, too.
When you say Klien had an aggresive ride- what do you mean? Actually sounds like I might like that! :D I love the fancy incredibly expensive custom paint jobs too- you gotta love your bike.

Lizzy

[Irulan]

agressive... laid out, race style. I"d love one now, but not when I was starting out

does that help?

Irulan

[missliz]

Oh- that's what I've got. How else would you run on dirt but as a quadruped?
I just don't like some of the Klien components- Rapidfire shifters give me tennis elbow, I prefer SRAM chains, yada yada yada. Maybe I can just get the Palomino frame with the swell paint job...
We'll see. I have time to shop.
Thanks girlfreind

Lizzzy

[Adventure Girl]

My FS mountain bike is a Santa Cruz Superlight. I love everything about it. Really. The newer model is the Blur which uses a virtual pivot point (VPP) to eliminate "bob". I considered buying a Blur when they came out, but I test rode one and even their smallest frame is too big for me.

They do make a women's line called the Juliana (named after Juli Furtado). They didn't make them when I bought my Superlight. If I could start all over, I'd buy a Juliana. My Superlight is a tiny bit too big for me, but I compensate.

Funny thing about your post is that when they were coming out with the Juliana, one of the things that caused a delay in their debut was deciding on what colors to offer the bike in. It was primarily a woman's market, so should they go with feminine colors? But mountain bikers aren't usually that "girlie", so they considered offering it in the same color range as the "regular" bikes.

[missliz]

Well, I can ride an off the rack standard bike- long waisted. And I don't need "girlie" colors, have you seen what road guys wear? LOL:D If I need pink the Italians can supply it. I just find a lot of bikes have some pretty butt ugly paint, and having ridden a ball burnished stealth bike for years I'm picky. I could do up a new suit for it periodicly out of home done decals. For a while it had Tom Snyder graphics... Then Celtic tattoos. Anyway, life is too short for ugly bikes. So I'll go look at the Santa Cruz site, thanks. I looked at GT years ago because they supported womens racing- and Furtado. Then I bought the ball burnished Zaskar because it was beautiful, and fit like a dream. Ripped off the ugly stickers when I went to pick it up. But you can't do that with paint.

I'd get an orange Homegrown hardtail if I could find one, but they're all gone. Pretty bike, sweet ride.

Lizzy the fashionista


"Fire up the colortinis and watch the pictures as they fly through the air..."
_-The fabulous Mr. Snyder

[pedalfaster]

don't forget Titus (http://www.titusti.com/)

have fun shoppppping. :)

[Kpicha]

Oooo, bike shopping is so much fun :)

Just an FYI, Trek, Fisher and Klein are all owned by Trek. The Kleins have awesome paint jobs but you're not really getting your money's worth as far as specs go. You can get a lot more bike from other brands for the same price. Also, apparently the pivot bearings on the Palomino are not of the best quality and are wearing out relatively quickly.

If you really want to spec your own ride, save up the dough for a good high end frame, that way you can pick out whatever components you want. :)

Titus, Santa Cruz, Turner, Ventana are all awesome companies that produce phenomenal bikes.

The best bet, though, is ride as many bikes as you can before you decide on what to get b/c they all fit differently. The Kleins have really long TopTubes and Santa cruz has short ones. When i was bike shopping, I didn't care for Giant bikes b/c they had too much of a "tin can" feel to them whereas, Specialized and GT (before Pacific bought them) just felt more solid to me. Kleins were too big and Trek (Fuel 90) was fine but it didn't "wow" me. The Santa Cruz Juliana had the most "plush" feel to it and I really liked that but the TT was just too short for me.

In the end, I finally ended up with a Turner XCE b/c it had everything I was looking for and that was the one bike I never rode :). I compared numbers left and right and read every single review I could get my hands on and finally took a leap of faith and couldn't be happier. It fits perfectly.

And, judging by your posts here, you've been around bikes long enough to know that good fit is paramount in enjoying your ride. :)

**breathe** Okay, that was quite an eyefull :) I hope you have fun shopping and trying things out. Let us know how it goes!

[melissam]

Lizzie,

I see you survived Mardi Gras!

Anyway, Mountain Bike Action magazine has their 2004 Buyer's Guide in the current issue on the newstands (March, 2004). It lists the stats you're interested in: Price, Front Travel, Rear Travel, Fork, Shock, Brake, Rims, Tires, Crankset, Shifters, Derailleurs, etc. for over 650 bikes, and breaks the bikes into categories like XC, Trailbikes, Downhill, Jump, etc.

Might be worth a look...

Happy hunting!

-- Melissa

PS I have no affilation with Mountain Bike Action magazine other than having a copy lying around in my house.

[missliz]

Thank you Kpicha- that's just the dirt I was looking for on the Klein. I read the spec and wasn't real impressed. If I went with the Palomino it would be the frame and then appoint it properly myself. I think the parts are crap; I'd want manitou or Marzocchi and a Sachs drivetrain. I know about taking the test ride- and taking a measuring tape to the frame. I also beleive in love at first ride :D My Z bike is from the days when Gary Turner still ran the company and is still a great ride. One just needs a new toy...
The Santa Cruz et al bikes aren't carried around around here- I think I need to road trip and see something new.

Thanks for the tip melissam- except you can't even get a bike rag in this town! Good excuse to roadtrip to another city.
Mardi Gras is not survived; It's for diving into and swimming hard for days! I weaseled my way into a parade on Ugly Bike heading downtown and had a glorious ride with crowds yelling at me- until some dumb kid threw beads in my drivetrain and I got chainsucked in THREE places and had to pull a muddy greasy rear end apart. Missed the whole downtown scene. Oh well.

Lizzy

[melissam]

Lizzy,

Bummer about the chainsuck. Another good time comes crashing to an end, eh?

Well, if your road trip doesn't work out, let me know, and I'll be happy to send you my copy of the mag.

-- Melissa

[missliz]

Thqanks Melissa- you're a sweetheart! :D I have to go to Baton Rouge anyway, and since they're actually in The USA as most people know it there's newstands and and bike rags galore. And a few good LBS to look around in... where theres a university, there's mt and BMX goodies.

Lizzy

[Kpicha]

Just out of curiosity, what is a Sachs drive train? I haven't heard of that one. These days, its either SRAM or Shimano on everything. I'm a SRAM fan ;) Love the gripshift and X.O derailleur. Crisp, clean shifts every time and I'm going on 18 months with the same setup.


Sorry to hear about your chainsuck. That really sucks (no pun intended :D ). Good thing you didn't get hurt with all those beads flyin' around.

Cheers,
Kristina

[missliz]

I'm pretty lucky- I stay up and trackstand when the bike suddenly stops under me; I've seen bad things happen to other people. And falling in the mud will really screw up a lovely sparkly dragonfly dress :D
Sachs is a German company who owns or owned SRAM; that's why we love it so, German engineering! Or maybe it was a partnership? I tend to use the two interchangeably, tho' that may not be correct anymore. I'm kinda out of the loop. Anyway, I won't have Shimano parts if I have any other choice. The rep said something so pompous, stupid, and freaking shimano-is-an-emporor-with-no-clothes about my bike (Iwanted to replace a rapidfire shifter instead of a whole drivetrain) I swore they'd never see another cent from me! I did buy a SRAM drivetrain- very happy! :D :D :D

Santa Cruz is supposedly sending me a catalogue; I had trouble with the web site, but the Buzz apears to be the hot sexy bike! The girl on the phone was having a comprehension problem so I hope it comes.

Lizzy

[Kpicha]

LOL! Yeah, you're not the only one to feel that way about Shimano. And their prices are rising again next year along with making products that are incompatible with other brands (hmmm, kind of sounds like Microsoft). I was going to say that the only SHimano part I have is my front der. but then I realized my BB and cranks are Shimano, too. Well, when Chris King finally comes out with their BB, I'll go for that and by then my cranks should be dead and I can go with Race Face cranks. Mmm, yummy bike parts. :D How weird am I? ;)

What's the Buzz? I've been following Santa cruz and their new VP Free bike and Blur but I haven't (oh wait, did you mean the Blur?)
Sweet bike!

[missliz]

Chris King BB- Yummy yummy yummy! Not weird, just one of a tribe. Or- Proud Citizen of the Bicycle Nation. I did all the currency for it in a printmaking class, so it exists :p People in other sports sit around and get drooly over gear too.
The reason they're so incompatible? Shimano started that BS- the splined spindle thing really was the last straw- then every other maker, especially the high end smaller people all got together and adopted a standard they use and Shimano can't. So when you get the CK BB you'll need not Shimano cranks probably. I've also still got Sh cranks that are fine; and I must admit the BB from 1996 has been swimming a LOT and is still silky. But I want to be seduced- not gouged.

I think it is the Blur. The site is really cool but I found it unnavigable and I couldn't read the fine print. I don't need that much travel down here- even up at the Tunica hills 3 to 3.5 inches is plenty. I liked what I saw in the tech drawings though- the way the rear triangle is linked on is really elegant and looks like it makes more sense than others I've look at.
But we'll see. I need to put a feww thousand miles on Miss Bike and then I'll have a better feel for what I want.

[Adventure Girl]

The Santa Cruz Blur is a really sweet bike. Very nice. I have lots of riding buddies who ride them... Santa Cruz bikes are very popular around here. I've been on rides with 8 to 10 guys and there are maybe only 1 or 2 who are not riding Santa Cruz bikes.

I'd love a Blur but even their smallest is too big for me. The geometry eliminates the "bob". All your pedaling power goes to propel you. You don't bounce like many other FS bikes. When I "stand up" on a climb on my Superlight , I lock out my shock. On the Blur you don't have to.

One thing to keep in mind (if it matters to you) is that Santa Cruz isn't making all their own frames anymore. I think they're making the Blurs, but many of the other models are being made over seas. Or that's the rumor I've heard around my LBS.

[missliz]

Everybody eventually farms out to Taiwan, and they have been for years. Most stock bikes from every company have come out of the two factories over there for decades, and a lot of them are great. depends if the company rep overseeing the production run is doing his job- so that's not the end of the world. The robotic welders on the line do pretty work as long as The Man is standing around. If the engineers have done their job the Taiwanese can make it.
However, above a certain price point I damn well expect handmade by a master.

Isn't it funny how you can look at a picture and get hit by lightning? The Blur is VERY intriguing; and I picked ZBike out of a catalogue and was half sold before I rode one.
And that's the problem- there are no dealers around here to test ride the bike. Not for 4 or 5 states.
I need a vacation anyway; If I can train all summer and be ready to climb, go to the left caost and ride with the 'bat queen one weekend, bike shop, get my skates rebuilt in Haight Ashbury...
I need to look at a map of California. Later girls.

Lizzy

[melissam]

I need a vacation anyway; If I can train all summer and be ready to climb, go to the left caost and ride with the 'bat queen one weekend, bike shop, get my skates rebuilt in Haight Ashbury...

Yes, yes, yes!!! You NEED to look at a map of California!!

'bat Queen? If you're talking about Jacquie Phelan and the WOMBATS, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Have you ever ridden with Jacquie? I did a couple of her clinics last year and had an absolute blast!

If you decide to come out to California, let me know! Northern California (especially San Francisco and parts just north) will probably fit your bill for getting the skates rebuilt and going on some cool mountain bike rides. Jacquie's WOMBATS rides generally take place around Mt. Tamalpais, which is just over the Golden Gate Bridge.

-- Melissa

[missliz]

Oh, I looked- I was pretty sure there was one stop shopping in the Bay area for all my hearts desires, and there is, I just couldn't remember where Marin was and needed to check. Had it confused with Orange County.
A Jaquie clinic has been an ambition for years, I even finally mailed in my 'Bat dues yesterday. And Lee Cole in the Haight is The Man for skates, I'm one of those ancient Quad crones :p LOL but I miss it. I used to do at least 40 miles a week on skates and commute by bike all over.
And then there's wine country!

Lizzy

[melissam]

Lizzy,

Any thoughts on a new cross-country bike?

If you end up coming out here, let us know. Maybe we can have a TeamEstrogen Bay Area get together. A little biking, a little wine tasting. Could be fun....

-- Melissa

[missliz]

Oh, it will be fun! I'll get there eventually, but tomorrow I have an MRI to see if my neck has any fractures so I've been grumpy and shaking my fist at the gods. I got the Santa Cruz catalogue in the mail yesterday, along with a sack of Wombat swag, but I'm kinda fuzzy on pain pills. Did you know you can walk around with a broken neck for a couple years? There's a lot of mashed up discs too, but I can't say I'm surprised. Four full headplants and I'm having trouble this many years later is a lot of slack.
Sorry to whine, but I've been distracted... And I've been thinking that if I overhaul my fork, or even replace it and give Miss Bike another season I'll be caught up on things, fit enough to really judge a bike, and I have plenty cash to roadtrip. Slaving to pay for a high end ride vs free time to ride a fine older one. And I'm not seeing anything I'm falling in love with.
So I'm thinkin', but not rushin'. And if there's anything to fix in my neck I might as well wait till fall sales anyway.

Lizzy

[melissam]

Lizzy,

Sorry to hear about your neck. Hope your MRI goes well, and they can fix what ails you without having to take drastic measures.

-- Melissa

[Kpicha]

Geepers, that's awful. My mom walked around for six months with a broken neck after a car crash. And she had lots of headaches to go along with it. I hope you get situated real soon. That's definitely no fun to deal with!!

[missliz]

I was getting along with it for a year, then suddenly WHAM! It got awful. Jesam my head hurts, and I didn't get the MRI- very complicated.
I looked at the Santa Cruz catologue last night and got all star struck by the Blur again. So elegant! 3 1/2 inches of rear travel is more than I'll need mostly though, can you crank down the rear shock and reduce it for totally flatland riding?
And it is very similar to the Klein Palomino, one of you girls said the Kbike had problems with bearing wear at the pivot point. Why would the Santa Cruz not do that? And I looked the Superlight- the design makes no sense to me.

Lizzy

[Kpicha]

The Blur and Palamino are two different suspension designs. The Blur has an extra pivot and (I'm going off of other people's experiences here) when you stand and pedal, the extra force stiffens up the rear end.

The Palomino is designed after the Maverick ML7. If you're interested in suspension design and really pretty looking bikes ;) check out http://maverickamerican.com There's a good explanation on their suspension design. They also have a phenomenal lightweight 6" XC fork!

If you're so inclined to be concerned about different fork heights, they also have an Excel spreadsheet with all the height measurements for all the modern forks.

Yes, the Blur has had some issue with pivots and bearings wearing quickly (i.e. 1 year of really hard use) and Santa Cruz has excellent service and are working on remedying that issue.

The Superlight would be the least attractive as far as suspension designs go between these three. Although, the Superlight has been refined enough that pivot wear isn't a major issue, ride performance is a worthy consideration. Typical of the single pivot is brake jack or rear end stiffening. This really scared me when i was riding b/c I coud feel the back end skip over the rocks and roots and the wheel lost traction. Many people don't notice this though or have just learned to live with it. I probably would have too but until you try something with a better design, specifically a Horst link, ignorance is bliss :)

Some people also claim that the VPP design (i.e.Blur) also has the rear end stiffening. I don't know if they were just looking for something to nitpick or if its a valid concern but I would love to try one out just to see how it rides.

Just to whet your appetite, here are some real life pictures of the Blur http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=74 Fun stuff!

[kelrunran]

For me, bike stuff, then running stuff, then swimming stuff. Maybe they are all a tie. I am NOT a shopper - hate it as a matter of fact. However, when it comes to my activities - I can shop till I drop. Since I got a new bike, now I need a new bike bag and a new pump (my old one does not fit my new smaller frame).

It never fails - when I'm shopping for "work attire" I always end up either in the sports or casual wear.

I was recently amazed at how much a friend spent on a new tv - I asked if their other tv died, but "nope" just wanted something better. But then I quickly added up how much we spend on our activities (bikes, clothing, entry fees, kayak....) uh..not good :)! So I guess I could see how they could spend that much on a tv - if that's their thing!

Kelly

[Kpicha]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kelrunran
[B]For me, bike stuff, then running stuff, then swimming stuff. Maybe they are all a tie. I am NOT a shopper - hate it as a matter of fact. However, when it comes to my activities - I can shop till I drop. Since I got a new bike, now I need a new bike bag and a new pump (my old one does not fit my new smaller frame).

Yep, and a new helmet, new jersey, oh and new shorts. sheesh, the list just keeps on going :D