OT: Quitting the Rat Race [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

DDH

08-17-2006, 06:42 AM

I quit my job 5 or 6 years ago when my son started school. My husband makes a moderate income, nothing extravegant by any means. He works a lot of overtime for us to be able to have extras and we have learned to live with less. I know in some ways his life is more stressed because he is the sole income provider, but in other ways, there is less stress in our lives. He does not have to worry about anything at home because I take care of it all. I take care of shoppping, bills, cleaning, mowing, cooking, laundry, just everything. Once in a while, he helps me mow, and he takes care of all the stuff with the vehicles including washing them. I take care of his 82yr old mom as far as shopping, and drs. appts. and such for her. I take care of things for my mother also.
Do I have regrets? I am not sure if I would call them regrets. I do have moments where I want to throw up my hands and tell everyone to kiss my well booty to put it nicely. Sometimes I want to go back to work so I can get a break.
The problem with being a SAHM, is that everyone thinks you have all the time in the world, and that your life is so easy, yada, yada, yada. Well, this is the hardest job I have ever had. Also the most under appreciated job!!
You know that new comercial they have with the invisible mom. Thats how I feel a lot of times. However, when I think about getting back into the rat race of a job, having to answer to someone elses hours, and routine. I change back again. It would put a huge burden back on my husband with taking care of his mom, if I went back to work right now. Plus my son just now started middle school and he wouldn't know what to do with me not home. He in Kindergarden when I quit, so he doesn't really remember the days of daycare, and someone else taking care of him.
There are pluses and minuses to both. Being at home, I pretty much get things done as I see fit and have time for. I mean obviously, you are going to have a set schedule on some things, and dr's appts and such will be at certain times that you have to make time for, but everything else, I do when I have time or see fit to do them. If the house is dirty and my DH is off, it stays dirty and we spend time together. Summer is the worst time, because someone is always home and under foot, so I have decided that summer is the time to do the have to's and the extras like cleaning on top of the fridge and dusting the ceiling fan, and cleaning carpets are not done.
Once school is back in and I have several days to get things done without anyone under foot, then I start back on my schedule of the extras.
Anyway, for the most part I love being at home for everyone, but trust me, like anything else, there are downfalls. Sometimes I am very frustrated though and want to make a living again.

Veronica

08-17-2006, 06:48 AM

My husband took the summer off with me last year.

We knew in 2001 that his company was having trouble and started saving since a teacher's salary is not enough to live on in CA if you have a house. And we didn't know how long he'd be unemployed.

When the company was acquired last year, he got a good severance package that we used to play all summer and never had to touch the savings. Oh and he had a job offer before summer even started...

He's back in the rat race now... but we're already plotting how to do that again next summer.

V.

farrellcollie

08-17-2006, 06:52 AM

You might want to read a book called "Your Money or Your Life" by Joe Dominguez. It is quite interesting.

KnottedYet

08-17-2006, 06:53 AM

I worked in high school, and worked my way through college (paid for it all myself, which i don't think kids can do these days as tuition has gone up so much).

When my son was born I stayed home for a couple years. THAT was HARD WORK! SAHM is the most intense job I've ever done. Oh, man...

Later I went back to work, and then back to college again. I pour too much of myself into my jobs, get burned out, and start wanting to switch careers entirely.

Right now I want to go to school AGAIN. But this time back to something I've already done and know I like, or into something related to what I do now.

I don't think I could leave the rat-race. I was unemployed for about 4 months after I graduated, there were NO jobs in my field and it darn near killed me.

mimitabby

08-17-2006, 06:55 AM

we're still in the rat race but plotting our way out.
hey, i figured out that it costs less for me to go to work than it does to stay home (and heat the house all day in the winter and keep the lights on)
my job is pretty low stress.

li10up

08-17-2006, 07:01 AM

I don't think I could leave the rat-race. I was unemployed for about 4 months after I graduated, there were NO jobs in my field and it darn near killed me.
What was killing you? The decrease in income or not having "anything" to do? Were you bored those 4 months?

laughlaugh18

08-17-2006, 07:17 AM

Glad to see one reply. Looking for your response later. It almost makes me sad to think nobody has escaped the rat race.
.

I suspect that there will be lots of responses by the end of the day! This is a topic near and dear to my heart, but it's going to take me some time, which I don't have now, to get my thoughts down coherently. I suspect folks want to think before they write.

Long story short, I did leave the rat race about 10 years ago (partner at large law firm and company general counsel to independent contracting attorney who works part time). I'm very happy I did it, but I also think you really have to understand what you're getting and what you're giving up.

More later tonight (after the Italian class I now have time to take :) ).

Geonz

08-17-2006, 07:24 AM

Whoo Hoo!!! I was going to point to this page anyway - because there are some neat essays on *exactly* this simplification thing - but hey! My "Drafting Story" gets me a T-shirt... (they're only in huge sizes but hey, the whole bike club can share).
http://minuscar.blogspot.com/

Mine is I think the only silly essay.

Right now I have a very nicely fitting non-rat-race job in education... with health insurance (tho' thankfully that's not an issue at this time and it's really just true "insurance" against sudden accidents).

My bicycle really moved me forward in the "cut back and simplify" direction.

There are lot sof other things I just don't spend on (makeup... MP3s)... but I do have a weakness for music and blenders :-)

KnottedYet

08-17-2006, 07:27 AM

What was killing you? The decrease in income or not having "anything" to do? Were you bored those 4 months?

All of the above. DPITA supported me, so I had food and a place to live. But no money of my own. I couldn't stand not being useful. I got kind of depressed and just sat around all day moping. I didn't even watch TV. I kept trying to find jobs, but the market was glutted and folks with more experience were hired over me. And that was discouraging.

mlove

08-17-2006, 07:35 AM

I will be quitting the rat race in November, but my solution--retirement--will not be of much help to most of you. With a job at a university, at least I have had some flexibility to help cope with the job stress (I am not faculty and don't have the summers off). But I am looking forward to turning my desk over to someone else so I have more time to ride.

If you are into simplifying your life, there are a lot of websites that you can check out for tips and tricks. And Joe Dominguez's book is really helpful.

Bikingmomof3

08-17-2006, 07:39 AM

I was until I had children and then became a SAHM (different sort of rat race :p )
I tried going baack to work once the boys were in school, yet I always felt as though it was the wrong choice for me. I wanted to be the one to raise them, not strangers (again-my choice, it is not right for everyone).

Very long story short- I would not do much differently. I would still have my college degrees, Etc., The only thing I would do differently would be to have never gone back to work. My boys still recall hating day care (and it was a nice one).

With only one income, things get tight. DH's job and the boys come first and foremost. I do not have the top designer clothing, my spending is very limited, and I rely heavily on used items for myself. Because we are 1 income by choice, and teens are expensive by nature, I cannot just pick up a book, even a used one for myself any time I would like-but it is the trade-off. Yet, I would not do anything differently.

Geonz

08-17-2006, 07:43 AM

I think to quit the rat race and not go into a swamp you have to join something else ... not be outside looking in at the rat race. I guess you have to join the kiwi race or somehting :-) Or maybe join the rat co-op instead of race?

I hadn't thought of it, but ... bicycling was an important thing that gave me a chance to channel my energies into something when I was out of the loop. the other thing I did was build a website (I'm a pretty serious introvert, gregarious as I am) about learning disabilities, put together some book-type stuff and stay active on discussion groups. I"m not sure, but I think the bicycle really helped enable me to stay productive and not just put things off.

Of course, you can end up wallowing online for ... [heading off now to prevent that...]

Bikingmomof3

08-17-2006, 07:46 AM

Do I have regrets? I am not sure if I would call them regrets. I do have moments where I want to throw up my hands and tell everyone to kiss my well booty to put it nicely. Sometimes I want to go back to work so I can get a break.
The problem with being a SAHM, is that everyone thinks you have all the time in the world, and that your life is so easy, yada, yada, yada. Well, this is the hardest job I have ever had. Also the most under appreciated job!!

Oh how well this SAHM understands. I keep telling DH I need a vacation-alone-he does not get it.

eclectic

08-17-2006, 08:22 AM

I am living simpler life more by necessity than choice. I have 2 kids in college with one of them still living at home. They pay for a lot of their own expenses but there a still some I take care of for them. Once they turned 18 all child support was cut even though they were still at home.

I am fortunate in the fact that I am a teacher so I was home with my kids when they were home and I take the summers off because I choose to live simpler.

A lot of my priorities have changed. I used to golf 2 or 3 times per week which got pricey now I bike which is free (after all the equipment purchases :p

I have discovered that Bike tours are a great and inexpensive way to travel (when within driving distance) and you get to see the country in a new way
Last years vacation: a 5 star all inclusive resort on the Riviera Maya - this years 7 nights in a tent on a bike tour. I'll do the tent again next year just in a different state :D

I decided I don't watch TV at all so I cut cable.(I advised my son if he really wants it he can hook it back up and pay for it - so far no TV :) I work at a school and the library has some great reading material so no book purchases.

My clothes shopping has been reduced to a minimum and I always shop clearance. After wearing spandex in public I am not quite so fashion conscious:o

I ride my bike to the grocery store and to do simple errands.

I have a couple of part time jobs which are flexible that I work if I want some extra money for trips or more bike goodies.

Entertainment is a lot of house parties where the meal is potluck around a theme.

I was amazed at how much money can be saved when I sat down and really looked at how important things were in my life. Cell phones, high speed internet (still a priority) new vehicles, redecorating, travel, dining out.

Just cooking a little different can save a lot of money

I took a lot of lessons from my sister and bro-in-law who raised 5 great kids on a very minimal salary. I never once heard those kids whining because they felt deprived.

Cassandra_Cain

08-17-2006, 08:30 AM

You might want to read a book called "Your Money or Your Life" by Joe Dominguez. It is quite interesting.

I've read it and think it is a great book. It is all about the very thing you are pondering: living more simply, and more importantly, happily. It can be done, but it takes a lot to get out of the spending money as a cure for all unhappiness mindset that this system conditions us to have!

Cassandra_Cain

08-17-2006, 08:31 AM

Oh how well this SAHM understands. I keep telling DH I need a vacation-alone-he does not get it.

I dont have kids, but I can say this with confidence - you haven't worked full-time until you've been a SAHM. There is no break, no pat on the back, no 5 o'clock whistle. Now that's full-time work.

Bikingmomof3

08-17-2006, 08:39 AM

I dont have kids, but I can say this with confidence - you haven't worked full-time until you've been a SAHM. There is no break, no pat on the back, no 5 o'clock whistle. Now that's full-time work.

No, there is no break at all. What amazes me is just how much more work the boys become the older they get. I made it through each stage telling myself it gets easier-it does not. I may complain occassionally (alright a lot :D) but i all seriousness I would not do things differently...well maybe a mental break now and then would be nice....

DebW

08-17-2006, 08:41 AM

I've been in the same job for 23 years (though the title has changed from research associate to senior staff scientist in that time). We had a group of 6-10 atmospheric chemistist here at one time and it dwindled down to just me about 5 years ago. Not such a good working environment as I have to keep myself funded with proposal writing, and the way science funding is these days that gets tougher and tougher. Next January my major contract ends without replacement. So I might be 25% funded or 75% funded (if another current small contract gets phase II funding). I'm pretty near burn-out anyway - my mind just doesn't focus on science the way it used to. If I end up on part-time, I'd like to take month-long periods off to hike or bike tour, then work solidly for a month or two until my contract obligations here are fullfilled in a couple more years. Then maybe I'll go back to being a bike mechanic. I could live pretty simply as I don't watch TV or like to shop and the house is paid for. Just have to watch the retirement funds.

mtbdarby

08-17-2006, 08:44 AM

Good timing.

I just met with a volunteer business person to help me start the process to becoming my own boss. I am very much frustrated with my job, unhappy with the direction of my life and wish to make changes and have more control over my future income than some guy in a corner office.

I have hired a life coach to also guide me and help me take a deeper look within to find where the frustration is truely coming from. Am I quitting the rat race? Not so much as changing the division I'm in:D . I want to live this life more on my terms and look forward to each day (especially if I can bike to work!) instead of dreading going to a high stress job. I'm a single mom just dieing to find a way to earn a living where I can spend more time with my wonderful son instead of having him spend 10 hours a day at daycare. I have a dream to be able to drop him off at school in the morning and pick him up at the end of day. That shouldn't be too much to ask for, just a little harder to achieve without a SO at home to help me get there. But I will, of that I am sure!

Cassandra_Cain

08-17-2006, 08:53 AM

DDH

08-17-2006, 09:24 AM

Yes, Bikingmomof3, I understand. I only have the 1 child so your hands are even more full than mine. I do have the MIL and mother to look after and am constantly doing things for, or running errands for or dr's appts. They sometimes are more work than my son and husband. I know that someday I will grow old and need help, (if I'm lucky enough) and I try very hard to be a good example for my son as far as how we are suppose to take care of our parents after they grow old.

Do you feel like even if you go on vacation that you still don't get a vacation.
When we go camping, or traveling, I am still the one that cooks, cleans, and takes care of things. DH does the grilling, but I even prepare that usually. He slaps it on the grill, watches it cook and then brings it in for us to eat. LOL

Since I quit my job, I feel like everyone's life got simpler but mine. :rolleyes:
Like everyone else has said, it's a trade off. You trade one set of simplifications for another and one set of frustrations for another.
Don't get me wrong girls. I love being a SAHM and being here for my DH and DS. I am a pretty simple person and it doesn't take a lot to please me. I get pleasure just knowing that I make my husbands life simpler and that I am here for my son ANYTIME he needs me. Thats not to say working mothers aren't, I don't want to start a war or anything, it's just a different mind set for the kids I think. Trust me, I have been in both positions, working outside the home, and now not working outside the home. He is 11 and is a little more independent but I don't care how old they get, they still need their parents. Shoot, I still need mine sometimes as far as their wisdom, or advice goes.

wabisabi

08-17-2006, 09:28 AM

It is wonderful to hear this question as well as the responses. I have not been around much because I had a change in my job status. I work at a university, and it appears that my (sole) office was downsized, though I think that is not the whole story and that it has a lot to do with my being a woman in a job where I have to tell people that they are doing enough for diversity. There is a big controversy about it and I have a number of faculty friends, and will take legal action, etc., but that is not the point here. I was actually feeling so downtrodden and marginalized that, for one of the only times in my life, felt dread about going to work. One of my friends commented that she could see why I rode my bike so much! I had concluded that I would quit by the end of the year if I was still unhappy, and this just sort of speeded things up. I've got a little severence, so have some time to contemplate the big picture. It is so wonderful to get out of the rat race!

So, I've been thinking about simplifying life for a while. I'm fortunate to live in a place that is pretty supportive of cycling, recyling and voluntary simplicity. It's important to have some support for a less materialistic way of living. It's amazing what we need to spend to make up for the frustration and unhappiness of our work lives! I'm in the process of paring down what I own, which makes for less to worry about. Learning to work on my VW Bus again, with a cycling friend, and will probably sell the Subaru and keep the bus (OK, I realize that is unusual, but that is my particular quirk).

The most exciting thing is that I am planning to go into a spiritual retreat for a year or so, which can be done reasonably, and I have so longed to do such a retreat.

Of course, I am also close to retirement age, so once I do that I will have a base income, but there are many people who find a niche for themselves doing something that they love. Women in particular have been doing this because too often the cultures of large organizations just do not work for us.

Although pretty well-paid, I have usually worked on the agenda of others. If you can manage to have a pretty good overlap of your passion with what you do, that is great. It is definitely, in my opinion, not worth any sacrifice of one's soul or health. My colitis is clearing up and my shoulders are less hard each day, and, I can ride my bike on Thusday mornings if I want. Which is what I plan do do right now!

Quillfred

08-17-2006, 10:33 AM

I work in a profession where I worked long and hard schedules which made it hard to "have a life" for many years.
I wouldn't say that I quit the rat race but I have slowed the treadwheel down some. I was working mandatory overtime every week with weekends off, but I was exhausted on Saturday and did little.

Requests for a schedule cut back were initially denied, but it got to the point were it was cut-back or quit. I now have Fridays off (4 day work week) and the length of my days have been trimmed too. My constant back, shoulder and neck aches are mostly gone. I know I am very lucky. Also a few years ago I took a huge pay cut to work at the current job. Although I work hard, I can really say I enjoy my job and the dysfunctional atmosphere of my prior job is gone.

I am spending less money on things that are unimportant now because largly, spending was a way to cope.

li10up

08-17-2006, 11:06 AM

Does anyone have any specifics as to how they managed to live (happily) on less income?

Hopefully our house will be paid for by the end of the year and our only other debt is a car. Seems like I should be able to move to a simplified life ...read here, less stressful job. My DH doesn't get it. He is one of those people who thinks your life is defined by what you were able to accomplish. That's hard for me to grasp especially since he is a cancer patient. At this point I would think he would have the opposite opinion - that life is more about living it with family and friends, not how high you can climb on the corporate ladder. Over the years I've come to realize that I don't want or need to be "somebody." I just want a roof over my head, food on the table, health insurance, and enough money to be able to enjoy life.

Crankin

08-17-2006, 11:26 AM

I don't think you can change someone's thinking about work, self esteem related to it, etc. I am a teacher who is giving up the rat race after this year (30 years). Because I moved to MA from another state and took my retirement out to buy a house here, I only have 16 years of retirement here, but I need a change. For years, i have given everything and more to my job, gone for classes (M.A. plus about 90 credits), taught aerobics, religious school, and volunteered. Oh yes, and I raised 2 sons. Now, i am blessed with a husband who took a totally equal role and in fact stayed home with son #1 for the first year. But, I always have worked, never regretted it and no one will convince me otherwise; this is what i mean about not being able to change someone else's mind about these things. When my kids were younger, all of my friends (except work friends) were SAHMs. We got along great and respected our individual choices. But I could not afford to live the way I wanted to and stay home. Their spouses all made a lot more than mine at the time, since mine made a major career change shortly after son #1 was born. This was just way it was and I'm glad that my salary helped provide my kids with the kinds of experiences that i had when i was a kid. We made a huge sacrifice to move east and I never have regretted it. That said, I feel like it is "my turn," now. I want to play (i.e. ride my bike) and work at a job that has no homework and will let me go on vacation when I want to. My husband makes plenty of $, but I will have to stop some of my spending. But I think it's worth it. You have to do what is best for your mental health. I've always said that "money is power," and it IS hard for me think of not contributing to the family income in any significant way. But, I feel like if i don't do this now, i might wait until i am too old to play the way i want to.

Bruno28

08-17-2006, 11:54 AM

I was recently caught up in the rat race. I had gotten promotion at work and was working every hour that god sends to show that I 'deserved' it. I was working so hard that I was becoming inefficient through lack of 'r n r' and so got in a vicious cycle of having to run faster just to stand still.

Then my dad was diagnosed with metastatic melonoma...which means it had already spread before he was diagnosed (they have never found the primary tumour). At 79 his prognosis was very poor - the operation to remove the tumor in his neck could have killed him. Thankfully they operated and he has a good constitution- he's out on the golf course at 7.30 every morning - and he had a positive attitude. At this stage its not cureable, but he is currently symptom free and back playing golf!

ANyway when this happened on top of my crazy working life I crashed and burned. I now work 9 to 5 but am thinking about cutting down to 4 days a week. I still have a mortgage to pay but I don't buy unnecessary things - my £320 bike was absolutely necessary and a godsend. Oh, and I like I a glass or two of red wine (hic!).

Sometimes we run into a brick wall that makes us re-think our priorites. If someone offered me an early retirement package tomorrow I would jump at it. The stuff that makes us happy and sustains us isn't the stuff we buy, but quite often we are confused into thinking it is.

Don't know if this is any help.

Dogmama

08-17-2006, 12:04 PM

My DH doesn't get it. He is one of those people who thinks your life is defined by what you were able to accomplish.

I'm generalizing, but I think men receive their self esteem from their jobs more than women. We normally have two jobs (paid and home) and not enough time. Face it - when your friends, Jim & Jane, come to dinner, do they look around & say "Gee, Fred sure keeps a dirty house!"

I digress - I'm leaving the rat race in 11 months. 30 years of faculty and students are enough for any soul. I'm a business manager in a social science department (read = no money) with an Oriental woman boss who is proud of the fact that she was so busy working she forgot her 20 year wedding anniversary. I work tons of overtime watch while a male colleague - who works no overtime and actually takes lunch hours is getting support staff help because he is "overwhelmed."

Today has not been a good day - can you tell? :mad:

Trekhawk

08-17-2006, 12:05 PM

This is a very interesting thread and it seems to fit in a little with the book Im reading at the moment - Affluenza. It talks about lots of different areas in our lives and mentions the fact that Americans earn more than before but are not as happy because they have less free time. Pick up a copy if you get a chance its a very interesting read.:)

li10up

08-17-2006, 12:10 PM

That said, I feel like it is "my turn," now. I want to play (i.e. ride my bike) and work at a job that has no homework and will let me go on vacation when I want to. My husband makes plenty of $, but I will have to stop some of my spending. But I think it's worth it. You have to do what is best for your mental health. I've always said that "money is power," and it IS hard for me think of not contributing to the family income in any significant way. But, I feel like if i don't do this now, i might wait until i am too old to play the way i want to.
That is how I feel! I've worked and/or (sometimes both) gone to school non-stop since 18. Now at age 44 I think I'm just burned out on work. I want a chance to play before it's too late or I'm too old to play hard. (It's funny that you used the word play because that's a word I always use). I want to ride my bike, play racquetball, go backpacking, skiing, etc. I have all the gear already so most of the expense is already covered. I just feel guilty talking about taking a significant cut in pay to have a no-stress 9-5 job. (A part-time job would be even better.) :D Especially since I have a DH who has worked so hard his whole life. He is 56, was a pilot for 23 years, retired, went into mortgage banking, then insurance claims and is now one of the top supervisors in the state in his field. He is now at the point where he is about ready to retire. He doesn't understand. I guess I'm just glad to know I'm not the only one fed up with the rat race.

mtkitchn

08-17-2006, 02:18 PM

Wow, what a great topic. I was ready to quit my job a few years ago. I moved to a town I didn't care for to take my job, worked too many hours and too many holidays with no social life, and could see no redeeming value in my life whatsoever. I ended up taking a personal leave (4 wks) instead, did a volunteer vacation and spent some time traveling by myself. When I came back I had a better attitude. Now I work about 3/4 of the schedule I had previously (luckily I have that option at this point in time, which I didn't have before). I try to set aside money when I can so that if I ever decide to quit, I'll at least have something. My husband doesn't always understand, but I pay my half of the mortgage and the bills, so I tell him to button it. I'm glad I didn't quit, but I couldn't have continued on the path I was on without a break and without backing off the schedule. My life still isn't utopia, but it's better than a lot of peoples', and I am thankful I have it.

Crankin

08-17-2006, 03:29 PM

I don't think it is wrong to use the word play! When all of my friends who didn't work had their kids in preschool with mine, they did a lot of "playing" when their kids were at various programs. Perhaps, if I had taken time off when I was younger, I wouldn't feel this way but like you said, I don't want to wait until I am too old. And, I am almost 10 years older than you. I feel that I have had a very nice, "socially responsible" career, but I am taking a deep breath before starting the "treadmill" in 2 weeks.

Susan Otcenas

08-17-2006, 06:17 PM

I just met with a volunteer business person to help me start the process to becoming my own boss. I am very much frustrated with my job, unhappy with the direction of my life and wish to make changes and have more control over my future income than some guy in a corner office....
I want to live this life more on my terms and look forward to each day (especially if I can bike to work!) instead of dreading going to a high stress job. I'm a single mom just dieing to find a way to earn a living where I can spend more time with my wonderful son instead of having him spend 10 hours a day at daycare. I have a dream to be able to drop him off at school in the morning and pick him up at the end of day.

Please don't think I'm beating up on your thoughts here, but I have to hop in.

Before starting Team Estrogen, I was a vice president and commercial lender at a community bank. I specialized in small business lending - SBA lending in particular. Your reasons for wanting to start your own business (ie. be your own boss, more control, less stress, spend more time with family...) are the same as many of the clients I worked with at the bank.

Did you know that 4 of 5 small businesses fail in the 1st 5 years?

I think it's because many people start businesses wanting just those things, without realizing that you RARELY get those things when you start a business. What you actually get is long hours, more stress (no one else to fall back on), less time off (who else is gonna do it if you aren't there?), less money (because nascent businesses need capital to grow and rarely produce any good cash flow when just getting started), no mental break (since small businesses are usually started in your home and you tend to find yourself drifting in there at all hours of the day and night when work needs to be done), etc.

Team Estrogen is now more than 8 years old. I have a 7 person staff, a rented warehouse that is busting at the seams, and a 12,500 square foot commercial building under construction. At the end of 2004, Jeff & I took our first vacation in 4+ years. I work far longer hours than I ever worked at the bank, and 12 hour days are typical. And usually one weekend day to boot. I have no children, no pets and no house plants. I couldn't possibly find the time to keep any of them alive.

I often receive emails from folks, especially women, asking me about how we've succeeded in growing our business, and looking for advice on how to grow their own. And I've mentored several small local businesses, especially in their first year or two. But I always make sure they truly understand what they are getting themselves into, and ask them to take a long hard look at what exactly they think they will get out of it.

Sure, you can own your own business and put in far fewer hours than I do. But most people can't work those kinds of hours and still make enough money to support all the things they want to do with their free time and all the stuff they think they want to buy for themselves and their loved ones. So they work more hours and discover that they've just traded one rat race for another.

When you work for someone else, you get your allotted vacation days, your health insurance, your 401K plan, your sick days, and your paycheck just like clockwork. When you work for yourself, you get none of those things unless you buy 'em for yourself, and you find enough clients/customers to pay the bills.

So, would I change the choices I made for myself? Heck no. I love this business we've built & I'm proud of it. I love my customers and I'm happy I can provide jobs for my fabulous staff, without whom this business would be nothing. But boy oh boy, I would sure love to take a few weeks off and ride my bike somewhere, without having to think about servers and inventory and taxes and payroll, etc, etc. I'm far less free to just take off than I ever was when I worked for the bank.

So, explore the idea of owning your own business. Please, just be sure you truly go into it with your eyes wide open, understanding that it comes with it's own set of sacrifices.

Best,

Susan

massbikebabe

08-17-2006, 08:23 PM

I had to leave the rat race...

Wasn't my choice, I loved what I did. I had a stroke that affected the motor function portion of my brain. I have difficulty using my left side, and both my legs are in braces. I also have a non-specific seizure disorder. Will I ever work again??? I don't know, but I do miss it. I cared very deeply for my patients and spent long hours at the office making sure they got everything they needed in a timely manner.

There is an upside to my story. I now appreciate each day that comes to me.
I have enjoyed spending this summer with my children, and watched my oldest prepare for college. I have a different prespective on the world and how it views those of us who are considered "handicapped". Because of my braces and crutches many treat me like a moron...I have a masters degree in nursing science and was preparing for a Phd program when I got sick. I am much more spiritual than I have ever been in my life. Little hiccups don't bother me anymore and riding my bike is something that makes me do a happy dance...especially if I don't fall!!!:) Driving a car is a treat and I miss it very much. In the old days I was a workaholic...I wish this me could go back and talk to the old me, I would tell the old me to slow down, smell the roses and cherish each moment. I wish the old me had a little bit of the new me inside...maybe I would have appreciated the "rat race" more!!!

karen
hoping this makes sense:o

wannaduacentury

08-18-2006, 07:03 AM

I haven't quit the rat race, but try to simplify it, if possible. dh wants to quit in 5 yrs or so after the house is paid off. But recently, I changed jobs and pared down my life some. I left a retail job I've been at 8 yrs(it was a decent job-burned out ) and I gave up some hard earned vacation time, But I've gained alot of peace-of-mind. I actually have more time w/ my 10 yr old dd, I can finish my college degree and get better grades(I worked f/t and college p/t) keeping my head above water grade wise. I can go to church and work won't interfere, and join some community things I've been wanting to do. I know everyone can't do what I've done financially b/c everyone is different, but find ways to simplify-Its worth it.

wannaduacentury

08-18-2006, 07:24 AM

"I am spending less money on things that are unimportant now because largly, spending was a way to cope".

At my old job, I would go shop after work, just to get away for awhile, even if I didn't buy anything. the clearance racks were fun though :). But I find myself not going to the store unless I need to now.

li10up

08-18-2006, 01:52 PM

For those that have opted out of the rat race did you spend time putting a nest egg together first or just take the plunge and work out the budget as you went? Due to my DHs health and not having children of my own I have to be concerned about being able to take care of myself when I'm old. So I don't feel I can dip into what we've managed to save so far. I've even thought if I could just take a year off from work...but then trying to re-enter the workforce could be difficult.

Kitsune06

08-18-2006, 08:48 PM

I was out of work for 3 months last winter and it nearly killed me. Between always having to be 'home' in a hostile environment (DGF's exBF still lived there) and not being able to leave because of the cost of gas, not biking because I didn't know the area AT ALL and my asthma was bad to the point of exhaustion after 3 miles, and the guilt of having DGF support me while I was turned down for job after job, having quit my cushy software job to move in with her (the silly things we do for love!) I was at the end of my rope.

I hate to say it, but without 'something to do' I sink into nasty bouts of depression. Surely if I had company while I had 'nothing to do' I'd be fine, but... I dunno. Any time I've been unemployed, I've been stuck alone or worse.

I WORRY about DGF though. 48-52 hr weeks since college, one day off/week and she wanders about on her free time, bored because she ordinarily doesn't HAVE time off- she has no idea what to do with herself. I'm going to pick up those books... it's not that we have oodles and tons of money as it is, but seriously, she works more hours than she has awake at home, and both of us need to get away from the rat race at least a little. =( What's life if you're not living it?

RoadRaven

08-18-2006, 11:22 PM

No, there is no break at all. What amazes me is just how much more work the boys become the older they get. I made it through each stage telling myself it gets easier-it does not. I may complain occassionally (alright a lot :D) but i all seriousness I would not do things differently...well maybe a mental break now and then would be nice....

Hi there... with 5 kids can I assure you it does get easier - a different kind've 'hard' but certainly easier in terms of demands...

Example, my two oldest are 18 and 17...
I, my partner and the 15 1/2 year old went racing today, leaving the 12 and 10 year olds in the older kid's care.

All went well, the dinner is cvooked, the clean washing folded and half of the dishes done.

As well - the three boys went out the back for a while making huts and building bear traps while my 18yr old got on with her homework.

Re the RAT RACE topic of this thread -
Cycling is my escape from the rat-race - I am very much interested in quitting my job - I'm sick and tired of the proverbial 'rat-race'
But I am stuck racing with the other rats til my youngest finishes school - my job helps pay for the petrol costs of running the kids in to High School.

tygab

08-19-2006, 10:29 AM

This is such an interesting topic I don't even know where to begin....

I am 34, and am in the tech (computer) industry. I went to college with the intent of becoming a wildlife biologist. The most fun I've ever had in a job was as an assistant to a biologist. I got to drive around in a Bronco, and interact with wild animals (a little more complex than that but that's what it felt like). That was the best!

To make a long story short, after school I needed a pay the bills job and I'd worked in the university's computer labs as part of my aid package. This was at the time when the public was just catching on that this thing called the Internet might be really interesting and change how we live and communicate. So, I went to work for a small local ISP, an have been in tech ever since. There have been several times along the way I have wondered why I was doing what I was doing, what my life purpose is, most importantly how I could get outside more and do something I love to be doing. Earlier on I told myself I would save up money and position myself to be able to do something more personally satisfying, most likely an outdoors or environment related job. A few years ago I started formulating a plan after getting so stressed out that I had to go to the ER for an irregular heart beat (turns out to be a very manageable situation and not a problem, just very disconcerting when it happens). And I had been getting migraines from stress too.

It will take maybe 5 or 6 years to be able to make the true shift, and I'm in year 2 now. But in the meanwhile, I was not sure how I could deal with being in the large company environment which was driving me nearly insane.

So... I have just left the huge company (10,000+) for a small company (100). It cuts down my commute from 45 minutes one way (which was at non-rush hour times to avoid traffic... if I had to go at rush hour that could easily be 1hr 15) to 15 mins. I take regular roads, not jammed up highways. I can go to work at the same hours others do. I can even bike if I get up the nerve to because it's only 10 miles (no showers at work tho and so far I am still too chicken too because of traffic volume :(). And I am trying *VERY* hard to make sure my new job does not sprawl into unreasonable hours and homework, things I did not do well previously.

I joined a gym about 2 mins away from the work by car, so I can work out on inclement weather days which we get plenty of or at least will. The office park has lots of paths and an area with a basketball court (too bad I am not interested in basketball). A fair number of people use the paths to run or walk. I've even seen some lunchtime cyclists but I don't know how to reach them (not in my building) to join. I have been trying to be good about running or biking, outside or indoors @ gym, at least 3 times during the work week, and taking a walk on the paths on non exercise days. I have met up with the local cycling club for after work rides a few times too. Side note, I am curious to know if the paths get shoveled in the winter - if they don't, I'll be snowshoeing at lunch - woohoo! I have also been drinking more water, eating better food, and trying to sleep more (actually my biggest weakness, not sleeping enough). And I try to do fun things on the weekend.

Bottom line to all this is most of my stress comes from the work environment, so I realized that as long as I was going to be working for a corporation, which I need to be for the time being, I better find ways to keep my perspective and not get wrapped around the axle. Hopefully, these things will work in the short term.

Long term, there are still a few wildcards in the plan of course... my husband and I still have to figure out some big questions like: kids & when, as well as where we will plunk ourselves down when it's all said and done. He DID go to school to be in the tech industry, and wants to stay in it... so that puts some constraints on things. I'd love to live in the middle of nowhere otherwise... :) And plans are always just that - this year has taught us that just when you think everything is rolling along, something happens that you did not expect. We know other things may require plan modification along the way. But at least we have something to work toward.

anyway I write all this because it always helps me see these goals in real words, so maybe in a few months I can use it to remind myself if I'm going off course. Also because maybe there are some ways some of you can find to bring down the stress levels in your own lives. The commute change alone has been TREMENDOUS. And being at a small company also is a completely different dynamic.

deena

08-20-2006, 02:43 AM

Last year sometime my family (me, DH ,and 3 kids) visited some friends of ours who had just moved into a half-mil house with all the extras. When we got home the kids envied everything - everything. I told the kids we could have all of those things too and their eyes got huge at just the thought of it. I said I would go out the next day and get a 50 hour a week job, they could go to daycare until I got home everyday, and that when my job transfers me across the country we would move three times in high school just like our friends did. :eek: THAT changed their perspective.

I have been a SAHM and a working mom. When I am working I miss fieldtrips and concerts, when I am not working we can't order out for dinner or go to the mall. There's a sacrifice either way. I do know my family is much happier when we are making our own choices, not comparing to ourselves to others.

velogirl

08-20-2006, 08:05 PM

First, I want to echo a lot of what Susan said -- I work more hours than I ever did; rarely take a day off; work nights, weekends, and holidays; make much less money; have no benefits or retirement; my office is in my home so work is always there -- but I LOVE WHAT I DO!!!

My career change was pretty serendipitous. I have a BFA in theatre management and I managed professional theatres for 13 years. I also have an MBA. I made the transition to corporate America and worked for a start-up (laid off in 4 months) and then a large investment banking firm (laid off in less than 2 years). I had planned to spend the rest of my career with the investment banking firm, so I was in a bit of a tizzy. As part of my severance (which was very, very generous) I received funding to go back to school for two years.

I was pretty lost without a job/purpose. This was in 2001 in Silicon Valley when the bottom fell out. No one was hiring. I couldn't even get an interview. I was a project manager and since there was no funding for projects there was no need for project managers. I fell into a deep, dark depression. And, to make matters worse, I'm single and I don't live with anyone. Not only don't I have someone else to depend on for finances, but I didn't have anyone to be socially responsible to -- if I didn't feel like getting out of bed on a given day, I didn't.

Long story short, I went back to school only because I got to go free, I had nothing else to do, and I realized if I didn't do something I'd probably have a nervous breakdown. I studied exercise physiology and decided I wanted to focus on cycling and helping women achieve success through their accomplishments on the bike.

Without savings, without a retirement fund, without a car (I sold it to pay the mortgage), I founded Velo Girls (http://www.velogirls.com)in 2002, hung out my shingle as a cycling coach, and also did some part-time work at a local college in the adaptive fitness program. To make ends meet, I taught 14 spinning classes a week (crazy).

I later decided working part-time at my local bike shop made more sense than teaching classes at four different gyms (and included health insurance). For a while I did both (spinning and lbs), but found it difficult to focus on my coaching (my new career) while I was working so many hours. That's one of the ironies of starting your own company. It takes time to make money. But, you need money, so you work other jobs, which takes away your time.

It was seriously tough for a year -- I almost lost my house. It was still tough during year two. During years three and four I could finally pay all my bills and quit worrying so much about money. Now, in year five, I'm finally thinking about paying down some debt I incurred to start-up my business and potentially paying into a retirement fund (but maybe not -- more on that below).

I don't have a lot of the expenses I had when I worked in the "real world." My commute is non-existent and I don't have parking expenses. My wardrobe is much simpler now (but sometimes I think cycling clothes are just as expensive as business suits). Because I don't work in San Francisco anymore, my social life has changed significantly (saving me lots of money). I have to think about major purchases before making them. But I splurge for fresh flowers every week (another story).

I survived on a wing and a prayer. I don't recommend anyone try what I did. It was totally crazy, but I've always done crazy stuff. Somehow, my business has succeeded even though there were lots of folks in the cycling community that thought it was a stupid idea (men, of course). I have a bit more free time to focus on creating new programs. And I'm finally not worried about money anymore.

There are lots of things to consider if you start your own business, especially one in your home. From the expense pov, you've got a computer, office supplies, software, computer support (I sure do miss the IT department), and other office type expenses. You might also contract folks to complete parts of the business for you (ie accountant, web developer, computer folks, graphic artist, etc). I didn't have a very good infrastructure set up before I started -- my "office" consisted of a laptop on the kitchen counter. I highly recommend getting your office (computer, desk, filing, storage, etc) set up before you begin.

Regarding retirement, I have a different opinion than most of you, I assume. Both of my parents died relatively young. I've survived some serious health issues of my own. I don't assume I'll have a long life. I would rather live my life now than save money and hope I'm still alive at 60. I figure I've always gotten by somehow, and if I make it to 60 I'll figure it out then too!

Dogmama

08-21-2006, 03:17 AM

Velogirl,

Amazing story. Thanks for sharing it!

farrellcollie

08-21-2006, 08:17 AM

Does anyone have any specifics as to how they managed to live (happily) on less income?

.

I suggest a book called "The Tightwad Gazette" (1998) by Amy Dacyczyn - in several parts of the book there are letters from readers (she had a newletter) who, using her strategies, went from two incomes to one (she and her husband have a bunch of children and she talks about a lot of stuff with children - not interesting to me - no children - but useful for those who do). The success stories are quite inspirational and she has a huge amount of information on how to live happily on less income. The book is rather old now (she and her husband made so much money on her Tightwad Gazette newsletter that she quit writing it) and the tips aren't always easy to do - but they make sense.

Livin the Dream

08-21-2006, 09:21 AM

I've enjoyed reading through this thread. I appreciate all of the insight people have shared. Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth....

I've had a FT job since I graduated from High School; I spent 10 years as a single Mom and earned a BA and an MA while working full time. Most of my working life has been spent in the corporate world; several years ago I was feeling VERY burned out and was exploring options everywhere from owning my own business (which I decided against for many of the reasons Susan so eloquently pointed out) to talking DH into selling everything and moving somewhere where we could live on basically nothing. God heard my cries of frustration, because I was given the opportunity to work for an academic institution, from home, for a few years. The job itself wasn't a "keeper", and working from home isn't for me, but it gave me the opportunity to step back from the corporate world and regain some sense of balance. I recently went back to work for a company I worked for several years ago and I've returned with a much better perspective, attitude, and a strong sense of what is important to me to keep my life in balance. For me, balance is the key. Not many of us have the stomach for risk or the means to just quit the "rat race" and start completely new. But, I believe we all have the ability to make small changes that will allow us to move our life back into balance and get our life to a place where we spend some time working (SAHM, work at home, or work outside the home), some time playing and recharging, and some time doing things for others.

My next challenge is facing DH's retirement. We'll see if I can maintain my newly-found perspectives! I've been remarried for a number of years; DH is older (He's 61, I'm 44) and will retire next year. My goal (and my employer is supposedly on board with this), is to transition to some type of less-than-40 hrs/week and/or flexible schedule to allow DH and I to travel and spend time together. (After he gets all the housework done!) This is important to me because the reality is, if we wait until I'm old enough to retire in the traditional sense, we'll miss the opportunity to travel, ride bikes together, etc. due to his age. So, for us, this will mean taking a hard look at what we can live without and what "spends" are important to us. This may mean that grandkids may not get as many gifts, etc. It will require making some hard choices, but I'm hopeful that we can carve out a life that makes us both happy!

Trekhawk

08-21-2006, 09:25 AM

Another book you might consider is Your Money Or Your Life. I have not read this book but I have heard really good things about it. Joe Dominguez (former Stockbroker) and Vicki Robin (former Actress) taught others how to get out of debt and save money by frugality and simple living.

betagirl

08-21-2006, 10:49 AM

A little over a year ago I quit my well-paying job in corporate IT to go back to school to get my doctorate in clinical psychology. While today I find myself more busy than I was at my old job, my stress level is 75% lower. Why? Little, if any, politics. Plus I actually love what I'm doing. I think that's key, and if you can find it and actually do it for a living then you're truly lucky. I do still consult on the side so I'm not a poor grad student persay. Plus my I live with my boyfriend, so he pays more of the bills now. I can say I do NOT miss the corporate world and am so happy to have escaped it.

li10up

08-21-2006, 12:55 PM

I took the suggestion I saw here and borrowed the book, Your Money or Your Life, from the library. This is a VERY good book. It still doesn't answer my questions though. Even though there is a chapter on How Much Is Enough it takes a lot of record keeping to come to that conclusion. I'm looking for answers - now. That's probably my problem. Plus no answer fits everyone, of course.

So let me revise my original question. How can I quite the rat race for just one year? I really don't want to stay in the I.T. field even though the money is good. I just don't enjoy it. So, I'd like to take a year off. I want to spend 6 months of it thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail and the other 6 months just riding my bike, decompressing and "finding myself." I still don't know what I want to do with my life. Anyone else out there in their 40s and still not know what they want to do for a living? It's embarrassing and frustrating!

Trekhawk

08-21-2006, 01:00 PM

mimitabby

08-21-2006, 01:10 PM

yellow

08-21-2006, 01:45 PM

So let me revise my original question. How can I quite the rat race for just one year? I really don't want to stay in the I.T. field even though the money is good. I just don't enjoy it. So, I'd like to take a year off. I want to spend 6 months of it thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail and the other 6 months just riding my bike, decompressing and "finding myself." I still don't know what I want to do with my life. Anyone else out there in their 40s and still not know what they want to do for a living? It's embarrassing and frustrating!
li10up, you can do it, but it will be hard. No doubt about it. It depends upon how far you are willing to step over that line out of your comfort zone.

I spent about 10 months skiing and riding and generally doing whatever I felt like doing expecting to have some kind of ephiphany. Surely "what I should do with myself when I go up" would come to me, right? I enjoyed the time and skied some wicked powder, but the ephiphany never came. I had this vision of being on the chairlift and having a giant "ah ha!" moment.

We had saved money in anticipation of me taking time off (approximately 25% of my annual salary), so while things were very tight, we learned to adjust. It helps that we were already a little unconventional: no TV, no expensive cars, small house with no storage, no kids, and no desire to be one of the Joneses, so to speak. Giving things up was really pretty easy. That's not to say that we didn't make some mistakes. It takes a while to adjust to the new lifestyle, that is for sure.

When I realized the "ah ha" moment wasn't going to come I actually had to apply some logical thought. How much was I willling to work and how much was I willing to sacrifice? How would it affect my spouse? What would he be comfortable with? How would it affect our lives 10-20-30 years from now?

So I started looking again for a "real" job (I was working a PT extremely low paying job at the time that had a great schedule but hated being treated like an idiot and it just wasn't working out). I ended up in a job similar to my old one but I was able to negotiate a part time schedule and the ability to take leave without pay without hassle. When I tell my new coworkers that I only work 4 days a week they get that "why didn't I think of that?" look on their faces. I may stay there a year or 10. I don't know. But I think that's OK. My life is still centered around my family and what I do outside of work. I never plan to work full time again.

Review your finances, decide what you can live without (it's a lot more than you think), how you can make changes, and go for it. Don't expect the ephiphany, but if it comes, great! Make sure you have a "back up" plan as well; it may be drastic (such as drawing on your retirement funds), but it helps to know that it's there. I never came close to needing my back up plan.

Better to do it now than to spend the rest of your life wondering what would have happened had you done it.

Good luck. What killer shape you will be in!

tprevost

08-21-2006, 02:04 PM

Livin the Dream

08-21-2006, 02:35 PM

I must echo everyone else. I have just read some very inspiring stories here, including Susan; of TE.
I have been working full time (with 3 months off for each of two sons) since i was 20 years old (i did spend some time trying to finish college, but didn't do THAT until this year)

I make an embarrassingly good salary for a woman without a degree (until June) and while my job is not personally very satisfying or interesting, I work with good people and we do good stuff (they design quieter airplanes).

So at least i can feel good about what we do here. but it is not MY purpose. It pays my bills and keeps me in a warm little house with good food all year round.

I used to talk about retiring at age 55 (I will be 55 in late november) but I don't talk about that anymore. If I retired, I would really need something else to do
and quite frankly; i am not sure i am ready for the drop in income.

The question is; how do you drop out for a year? Set some money aside. If you can't do that; you are going to be in worse shape than you are now at the end of a year. Moneylenders are there to make a fortune off you; and if you go into debt, it can be something you never climb out of.
If you don't like your job; try to get another one; or relocate so you don't have such a long commute.

After my kids grew up i expressed to my younger (andmore needy son) my regrets that i was not a stay at home mom and that he had to stay in day care. he said; mom, don't worry about it; you made us more self reliant.
Good luck
mimi a lab rat.

Mimitabby, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that your method of making a living is not your purpose. Rather, it supports the rest of your life, like bikes and accessories! And working with good people is a gift in an of itself..

Your comment touches on what led me back to satisfaction in the corporate world. In the few years I stepped out of corporate life to work in academia, I finally made peace with the fact that, at least at this point in my life, the best place for me to work was not in a field I am passionate about (education). The skills you use in your everyday job and the interests that are near and dear to your heart are not always one and the same. It's amazing what some soul-searching and a shift in attitude can do. Life is a trade-off.

BTW, congratulations on finishing your degree! That is a great accomplishment.

li10up

08-21-2006, 02:48 PM

Yellow - what you did sounds like what I'd like to do. 25%? Sounds like an obtainable goal. A little disheartening to hear you didn't come to any revelations. Sounds like you worked it out though.

Mimitabby - I've never been a person to live in debt. So that isn't an issue for me.

I don't need a lot. Don't have any vices like clothes or shoes. Don't need night clubs. Enjoy eating out but can change that. I do like to buy sports equipment though. But I have a mtn bike, road bike, kayak, racquetball and climbing equipment. So I don't think there's much else I'd want. House should be paid for by the end of the year so that just leaves the car. No credit card debt! I will be vested at work in two years so there is no way I'm leaving before then. Guaranteed something at age 60 that way. I'm saving about 15% of my income for "the day" I can quit. Had a nice little nest egg goin' until we had to replace our heat pump. $5000 bucks down the tubes! Going to tell DH that this money is NOT for for short term needs. Biggest concern is health insurance. DH is a cancer patient and is insured through me by work. Don't know how I'm going to get around that one.

You all are giving me some things to think about. Just don't know how to figure out how much $ I'll need to quit work for a year without ending up in the poor house.

Trekhawk

08-21-2006, 03:02 PM

Ok Im assuming Americans dont have Long Service Leave?? That is a shame In Australia after you work for a company for 10 years you are entitled to 3 months paid leave. For every year after 10 you receive another week of paid leave. My husband has worked with his present employer for 20 years so could take 6 months leave on full pay or opt to take a year on half pay.

We hope down the track to use this leave so my husband can relax and enjoy a non scheduled life and perhaps we can travel a little. We would also like to investigate less populated parts of Australia with the idea of maybe living there down the track.

I hope you manage to find a solution that works for you. As Yellow said you have to try.

spokewench

08-21-2006, 03:38 PM

In 1996, my husband and I moved from the Bay Area to Flagstaff Arizona (small town) to get away from the rat race (no long commutes anymore, less money, still pretty expensive housing, but we had a little extra put away so we are okay that way.)

So, when we first moved here, I worked full time at at least 1/2 of my Bay Area Salary, my husband worked part time at a little less salary than he made before. we managed, we did fine and still started saving money.

Then, I went to 4 days a week (I'm a paralegal) about 2 years ago. A little less money coming in but not bad - I like my job and I have a lot of time off.

Then, about a year ago, my husband quit his full time job (xray tech) and did not work for about 8 months and then has worked part time (he does ont work as much as I do right now) and we are still doing okay! I even went to the Colorado Bike tour last year, went on a 3 day cruise and went surfing for a week in LaJolla last week! Lots of riding and small trips as well.

So, yes, we are out of the rat race although we still work some and it is wonderful! You just have to plan, and execute and don't go out to dinner as often, eat your lunch at home, don't commute as far or do it on your bike, etc. It really is not that hard once you make up your mind to do it!

Life is GOOD!

mimitabby

08-21-2006, 03:41 PM

wabisabi

08-21-2006, 03:50 PM

It may be a long shot, but worth a try: what about applying for a sabbatical? There may not be a formal program, but it might be something to explore. You never know. You could save up some $ and see if you can get a year off; maybe something like Trekhawk is talking about. There are some companies that offer this, or are open to it. If it is just the time, it might be worth it to the company. It's a way to keep good workers from getting burned out. You might start a trend!

I didn't mean to suggest that working for oneself is a piece of cake, by any means. I have just noticed over time (and there is some research to support this) that women are less willing to put up with the vagaries of the corporate world (which I think is a good thing). For example, I have a sister who lives in a rural area and does editing for a couple of publishers. The work can be variable, and she does a lot of other money-making things. There are also a number of local voluntary simplicity groups in many areas that can serve as a support group; I think the website associated with the Dominguez book lists some. Duane Elgin's book is also good, and has support groups.

Trekhawk

08-21-2006, 04:43 PM

No, we don't have anything like that. Most of us work for companies, that if they give you vacation (normally not more than 1 month a year) they take it away if you don't use it in the next 2 years, so you can't even save it up!

Yep I know what you mean about your normal leave each year. Its the same in Australia most people get around 4 weeks paid leave a year and in most cases are not allowed to save it up. This is where Long Service Leave is nice but I must say that getting the time at work to take it can be a problem. A lot of people in Australia work there whole life and never take their Long Service Leave they just get paid out for it when they retire. It can work out to be a rather large sum of money for people that have worked for years but it really defeats the whole purpose behind LSL which was to allow people to take a break from work and recharge and perhaps reconnect with the world outside of work.

li10up

08-22-2006, 05:12 AM

It may be a long shot, but worth a try: what about applying for a sabbatical? There may not be a formal program, but it might be something to explore. You never know. You could save up some $ and see if you can get a year off; maybe something like Trekhawk is talking about. There are some companies that offer this, or are open to it. If it is just the time, it might be worth it to the company. It's a way to keep good workers from getting burned out. You might start a trend!
A sabbatical would be great! I approached the boss last year about that...after hinting time and again that I want to thru-hike the Appalachian Trail. He told me that if he could let me off for 6 months then apparently they don't need me. And I wonder why the morale in the office has gone down hill over the last few years (since he took over).

wabisabi

08-22-2006, 06:41 AM

Oh, that's too bad. I am (was!) all too familiar with that kind of short sighted attitude; it's almost impossible it seems to have our whole selves honored in too many of our workplaces.

mimitabby

08-22-2006, 06:51 AM

Mimitabby - I've never been a person to live in debt. So that isn't an issue for me.

You all are giving me some things to think about. Just don't know how to figure out how much $ I'll need to quit work for a year without ending up in the poor house.

Lightenup (Gosh I JUST Figured out what your handle meant!)
I didnt know how old you were ... you sounded youngish. Now i see, you
HAVE been around the block. glad you're not into debt! :)

margo49

08-22-2006, 06:52 AM

. it's almost impossible it seems to have our whole selves honored in too many of our workplaces.

that is so well-phrased or as my (late) Dad would have said
" You spat a bib-full "

li10up

08-22-2006, 10:03 AM

Lightenup (Gosh I JUST Figured out what your handle meant!)
I didnt know how old you were ... you sounded youngish. Now i see, you
HAVE been around the block. glad you're not into debt! :)
That's a reminder to myself not to be so serious and worry about stuff so much. I think it's part of my nature though. I am young - at heart at least.;)

I've always been good with my finances. I just can't seem to figure out how much to have tucked away to quit my job, take a year off work, and then find another job - hopefully something I'll enjoy. I know it can be done I'm just not sure how to go about making it work for me. The fear of change can be a powerful thing.

Oh, that's too bad. I am (was!) all too familiar with that kind of short sighted attitude; it's almost impossible it seems to have our whole selves honored in too many of our workplaces.I agree, very well said.

farrellcollie

08-22-2006, 12:13 PM

I've always been good with my finances. I just can't seem to figure out how much to have tucked away to quit my job, take a year off work, and then find another job - hopefully something I'll enjoy. I know it can be done I'm just not sure how to go about making it work for me. The fear of change can be a powerful thing.

I agree, very well said.

I really do suggest the Tightwad gazette (check the library)- it has info and life stories of people who have managed to save for all kinds of life changes. some even say how they figured out how much they needed to save to do what they wanted to do.

DebW

08-22-2006, 04:55 PM

eofelis

08-26-2006, 07:22 PM

I really do suggest the Tightwad gazette (check the library)- it has info and life stories of people who have managed to save for all kinds of life changes. some even say how they figured out how much they needed to save to do what they wanted to do.

The Tightwad Gazette helped me out a lot!

I don't think I've actually even been in the rat race!

I'm 38, in college full time. I'm a senior and will be for 2 more years. I haven't worked a regular job for a few years now. My tuition is paid with grants and scholarships, plus I get a bit more for living expenses. I live in a 1 br apt with bf and 2 cats, and 11 bikes! I have a 1991 Subaru, it looks and runs good still. I can walk or bike to most places I need to go. No cell phone, no cable, dial up internet free through the college. I've been debt free since the early 1990s.

My goals in life are to keep it simple and to choose my responsibilities wisely.

eofelis

08-26-2006, 07:33 PM

I still don't know what I want to do with my life. Anyone else out there in their 40s and still not know what they want to do for a living? It's embarrassing and frustrating!

I'm a geologist-in-training but I'm not sure if I really want to do it for a real job. I just really love rocks. I love going to school too. Maybe I'll just go to grad school.

Dogmama

08-27-2006, 02:45 AM

My tuition is paid with grants and scholarships, plus I get a bit more for living expenses. I live in a 1 br apt with bf and 2 cats, and 11 bikes! I have a 1991 Subaru, it looks and runs good still. I can walk or bike to most places I need to go. No cell phone, no cable, dial up internet free through the college. I've been debt free since the early 1990s.

You rock! <huge groan>

Seriously, I work at a major University with kids that are in debt over 6 figures with college loans. In many cases, their chosen profession pays almost nothing. But they refuse to cut back on cell phones, manicures, designer clothes, etc.

Had one in my office last week complaining about how a scholarship she was given messed with her financial aid portfolio :eek: I wanted to say, "Just pay it back. I have lots of other students who will gladly take $4,000/semester of free money" - but grad students are "golden" in my dept.

Bad JuJu

08-27-2006, 08:03 AM

Seriously, I work at a major University with kids that are in debt over 6 figures with college loans. In many cases, their chosen profession pays almost nothing. But they refuse to cut back on cell phones, manicures, designer clothes, etc.

Plenty of my students carry huge credit card debts, too. I don't know whether it's that nobody ever taught them about compounded interest or that they just never learned any fiscal responsibility at all. Probably both.

I also occasionally get a student who will blame her poor grades on having to work to pay for school. I do applaud the effort to remain debt-free, but usually, on closer investigation, there are other expenses the student doesn't want to give up, like the ones you mentioned, Dogmama. On the other hand, unless your parents have made some provisions for paying tuition, it can be very difficult to pay both living expenses and tuition these days, not to mention being able to afford your textbooks.

It's important to make good choices, but not everybody has been taught how to do that, and sometimes you just don't have a lot of choices.

KnottedYet

08-27-2006, 08:12 AM

I have $5 in my savings acct. Maybe $200 in checking. $7,000 in my IRA and 401k. Owe $11k on my car, $8k on my student loans, $5k on my visa.

oops.

Kitsune06

08-27-2006, 07:41 PM

Uh, yeah.
$5 in savings (just enough to keep it open... :o )
$50 in checking (hoping I don't need to get gas or do the gym EFT 'til fri)
owe ~500 on one acct,
$500 on the **** credit card again after the insurance deductible on my car, $2500 on the car....
then I have to try to figure out where, in between all these pressing bills, I'll be able to afford contacts because my 3yr old glasses prescription isn't quite doin' it anymore, and I really do need to have my asthma checked out.

Stupid rat race. Stupid under-paying jobs. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Every time I complain I get "You need a different job, dear." from DPITA. Thanks, I couldn't figure THAT one out on my own.:rolleyes:

li10up

08-28-2006, 09:41 AM

Uh, yeah.
$5 in savings (just enough to keep it open... )
$50 in checking (hoping I don't need to get gas or do the gym EFT 'til fri)
owe ~500 on one acct,
$500 on the **** credit card again after the insurance deductible on my car, $2500 on the car....
then I have to try to figure out where, in between all these pressing bills, I'll be able to afford contacts because my 3yr old glasses prescription isn't quite doin' it anymore, and I really do need to have my asthma checked out.

Stupid rat race. Stupid under-paying jobs. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Every time I complain I get "You need a different job, dear." from DPITA. Thanks, I couldn't figure THAT one out on my own.:rolleyes:
This is exactly why I can't seem to quit the rat race. How can any sane person voluntarily go from a good paying job that allows her to save money to one where she may have to live paycheck to paycheck? I must be crazy for even thinking about this. I'm trapped!!!

Kitsune06

08-28-2006, 09:59 AM

mtkitchn

08-28-2006, 10:41 AM

Like others have mentioned, it would be best to look for a new job while you have your old job. Find a job that will let you take time off or have flexible schedules or work part time....whatever suits you! But it sure is easier to find that dream job while you're currently employed.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

li10up

08-28-2006, 12:33 PM

uhm... yeah, thanks. ;) no, it was crazy to quit my nice job to move to Portland area. I actually did so hoping to find a *better* job. ... and I was a little delusional, I suppose, assuming people would *want* to hire me after seeing my resume :rolleyes: such is life.Sorry, that probably didn't come out right...:o
Crazy or not though you DID it. I mean you actually quit a good job to leap into the unknown...HOWDIDYOUDOTHAT? Did the dream job ever come or are you still looking...or have you learned to love living with less? Was it worth it? Would you do it again?

Like others have mentioned, it would be best to look for a new job while you have your old job. Find a job that will let you take time off or have flexible schedules or work part time....whatever suits you! But it sure is easier to find that dream job while you're currently employed.
Good luck in whatever you decide.This sounds like a good idea but who would hire you if you told them, "Oh, by the way, I'm gonna need 6 months off before I start." Usually if someone is looking to hire they need the person then and now - don't they? I'm thinking I would have to take my time off before having another job lined up. That means having a bunch of money set aside in case I can't find a job after my time off. Of course all of this would be moot if DH would just support my lazy butt.:p

eofelis

08-28-2006, 07:41 PM

I have $5 in my savings acct. Maybe $200 in checking. $7,000 in my IRA and 401k. Owe $11k on my car, $8k on my student loans, $5k on my visa.

oops.

The only thing I have so far for "retirement" is the attitude that I can get by on very little money. When I finish school in 2008 and get some sort of real job I should be able to save lots of money, as I intend to keep living as I do.

~$4000 in my savings and checking accts. bf has his own money, he's doing ok.
15 yo car, 4 bikes, fancy camping gear, second hand household goods (except for the new queen size bed we just bought - the first NEW piece of furniture I have ever bought.)
Just paid off the Visa today, as I do every month.
Rent is $475/mo. Electric is $30/mo. Phone is ~$35/mo. Food and gas vary. Car insurance is $300/yr.

Another down side for me is no health insurance. We fortunate here to have a good medical/dental clinic for non-insured folks. The county family planning clinic has also been helpful. I'm not sure what I'd do if I had a major medical crisis. Can they take what I don't have? (money, assets)

farrellcollie

08-28-2006, 07:44 PM

About 14 yrs ago, I quit a job as a lawyer with a medium size firm where I was making a good salary. I quit to become a public defender - salary was cut by more than half. I decided I would rather do something I was interested in and cared about rather than help businesses sue each other. It was not easy, but I had paid off all my debt except house payment and then looked at other expenses to decide what was worth my spending money on (deciding what fit with my vision/my values = this is very personal and no two people will have exactly the same) - it was not that hard - I had more time to hike with dog and bike - the two things I really like to do. I became a vegetarian and ate out very seldom etc. It was for me deciding the minimum I needed to live on - determining what I really enjoyed and whether it was worth the money (hours of my life expended making money to buy/spend money) -= when it was I kept it in my life - when it wasn't - I cut it out. I was living alone at the time with a dog and three cats.

eofelis

08-28-2006, 07:55 PM

Plenty of my students carry huge credit card debts, too. I don't know whether it's that nobody ever taught them about compounded interest or that they just never learned any fiscal responsibility at all. Probably both.

It's important to make good choices, but not everybody has been taught how to do that, and sometimes you just don't have a lot of choices.

Way back when, in 1985, I had graduated high school and got a job. I got my first credit card from a local bank. It had a $500 credit limit. I had that card for several years and it worked out fine for me. I did carry a balance on it from time to time, but mostly paid it off every month. If I wanted to spend more than $500, it made more sense to just pay with cash (after saving up.)

I never got in the habit of going wild with a cc.

I have 2 credit cards now, with enough of a credit line to buy a new car. I'm not even sure what the interest rates are on the cards. I never looked, I don't care.

I decide if I want to buy something and check to see if I already have the money. If it all looks ok, I go ahead and get the cc out of the lockbox where it lives (I seldom carry it around with me otherwise) and go buy the gizmo. Then I pay it off when the bill comes. I use the cards for my convenience.

I think cc companies call folks like me "deadbeats." They don't make much money off of us.

crazycanuck

08-29-2006, 04:53 AM

I had a cc in Canada & then NZ but i only had a $500 limit (on both)as that's all i ever wanted. Credit card from Canada was paid off & canned when we lived in japan and the NZ cc was paid off & canned when i moved to Perth. I can't be bothered to apply for another cc and am happy using eftpos.

Ian & I have one cc btwn us, it's paid off at the end of the month.

We don't have any outstanding loans etc...well actually that's a lie..the soon to be mortgage will be our main & only debt. If that's the only way for me to get a credit rating here in Australia so be it.

When i worked for The National Bank in NZ i always told ian that i was amazed about peoplé's finances....I still don't like the idea of overdrafts...I remember trying to beat the idea of interest on cc's into people's heads...F&&&&~!!!! Explaining to someone why thier cc wouldn't work any longer...and then them complaining because they were in a busy shop & were embarassed....TOUGH S**** i say...(not on the phone though...)

Even where i work now, I get to see paperwork for the area that completes financial hardship requests...:eek:

I don't mean to sound like a goodie goodie....I just hope someone out there understands what i mean.

c