new to spinning

[fredrick]

I've just starting riding this year - love it though my endurance could improve. We have sandy roads in the winter due to snow/ice clearing so I don't want to ride. I was thinking of joining the gym down the hill for a spinning class to build up my cardio over the winter for next Spring. Any suggestions on what I should be looking for? Questions I should ask the instructor to see if they are knowledgeable? Thanks

[Irulan]

I don't think it's as much "what to ask" as it is things to look for in a class.

Does the instructor check for new class members and make sure you are set up correcctly on the bike? Are the bikes smooth and in good condition? Do they have clip options? Does the instructor pay attention to the riders? Have you check your body position for good posture, ankles down, proper seat height?

Then the class itself.. is it fun? Does it flow? HR monitoring? Education about fitness and technique? Do you like the music (not a requiement but it helps) Is there a warm up and cool down, stretching? Do they ( ack!!) sing along?

The hardest thing for me in spinning is that is it not duplication of real riding. I'm stritcly a trail rider, but some of the stuff in there really drives me nuts ( jumps in particular) but I just visualize kicking some major butt on my favorite trails and don't stress about it.

Read the other threads in this section and that will help you too.

Irulan

[VenusdeVelo]

Irulan is right on the mark -- all the things to scope out. Also check to see if they are certified instructors and not someone who teaches step aerobics, etc. etc. Not that teaching step is bad in any way, it's just that indoor cycling is cycling -- and the class should be taught with the same concepts in mind. I just find that if you have a cyclist teaching a spinning class, it becomes much more valuable.

Personal opinion -- I took spinning classes for almost 2 years with instructors trained in other methods, and sometimes none at all. I am certified in Johnny G (a cyclist) Mad Dogg. I don't think, as a cyclist, that I could bring myself to teach moves I feel are contraindicated. There are way too many contraindicated moves I've seen instructors do that can actually be harmful if done on a spinner. IMHO.

And also, your spinning class is your workout, not the instructor's. Make sure they not only ensure bike fit and watch their students, but that they are intent on ensuring you get the workout, not them.

So, use your best judgement and remember, stay within the rules of "if I do it on my bike...".

(Irulan, I agree the jumps cross the line, but, they are at least not contraindicated moves, ie, potentially harmful, as long as you stay away from the obnoxious "popcorn jumps". But, on the same token, I usually only do jumps for maybe part of 1 song in my sets....)

[Irulan]

what do you mean by "popcorn". She has us up/down for 8 counts each, a lot of times I don't follow for that.

Irulan

[VenusdeVelo]

Most jumps are either 2 seconds (2 sec up, 2 sec down) or 4 seconds. 8 seconds is sometimes little long for my personal liking but it is perfectly acceptable....esp when the song warrants it also.

Popcorn jumps are up/down, up/down, up/down etc. jumps of about 1 second each (up and down!). The problem is 1.) you quickly lose your form when you are doing a move that quickly and 2.) you don't build the strength the move is intended to build because you are not resisting well enough -- you are simply using gravity and a "bouncing" momentum to get yourself up and down.

Hope that helps -- I have seen some instructors do them and I just stick to a 2 sec up and 2 sec down so I am not "too off" from the rest of the class.

[fredrick]

Thanks for your comments. I'll let you know how things work out. By your conversation I take it your spinning classes are sort of mt. bike oriented? I'm a road rider. Are there different classes? or who knows, maybe I'll become intriqued by those 'jumps' try the dirt too.
:)

[Veronica]

I can't quite decide how I feel about jumps in spin class. The way most people do them, doesn't seem like good biking form. And I look at spin as place to practice technique. Not everybody there is a biker though and so it doesn't matter to them.

Sometimes I just won't do them and I'll do a seated sprint for the jump songs. Sometimes I do them but instead of going into a standing run from the seated position, I'll stretch out to simulate standing going up a hill. Sometimes I'll do the jumps as advertised but instead of being all bouncy in the run position I'll pretend I have a tea cup on my head that I don't want to spill. That's a great quad workout.

I almost never do any of the standing run songs as a standing run. I don't think it's good biking form. It almost feels like you're on an elliptical trainer. At my old gym I'd stand and then let go of the handlebars and try to maintain balance during the song w/o holding on. Another good quad strengthener. My new gym really frowns on letting go of the handlebars. So for the standing runs now I either do a seated sprint or I'll do the aforementioned tea cup thing.


Veronica

[Irulan]

Originally posted by fredrick
Thanks for your comments. I'll let you know how things work out. By your conversation I take it your spinning classes are sort of mt. bike oriented? I'm a road rider. Are there different classes? or who knows, maybe I'll become intriqued by those 'jumps' try the dirt too.
:)

ROFLOL. Jumps means up and down out of the saddle, not dirt jumps. Typically something stand for 12, saddle for 12. It usually goes with the music somehow.

LOL, that will be the day when there's a mountain bike themed spin class.....:rolleyes: Maybe then no one will look at the dirt falling off my shoes so funny.

Irulan

[fredrick]

I had these visions of really bouncing up and down :D wildly!!!! I guess I need to get down there and experience this!

[Dogmama]

I had a really good spin teacher who taught that jumps were two inches off of the saddle and you went up & down as if you had eggs on the saddle - very gently & no bouncing. THAT is a quad workout!

But, I'm curious about the contraindicated techniques. Could somebody elaborate? We have spin instructors who do all kinds of things. ..

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Dogmama

But, I'm curious about the contraindicated techniques. Could somebody elaborate? We have spin instructors who do all kinds of things. ..

one for sure that I can think of is "stand and grind" We have one gal who want's you to put it in the equivilant of your biggest gear, and then grind it.... think push hard, slllooooooww cadence. Just think of some of those riders you see and think to yoursself, man, they should shift down before they blow thier knees out!!
Anyway I refuse to do it. Period.
Irulan

[VenusdeVelo]

Contraindicated with Mad Dogg (Johnny G) is any sort of stretching ON the bike -- some methods teach for example a hip flexor stretch by sitting in the saddle and putting your leg up on the bars. Other contraindicated moves are push-ups on the bike -- some teach standing out ot the saddle and doing push-ups on the bars or figure 8s with your upper body while pedaling. Or there is the sort of "squat" while you are out of the saddle -- talk about a horrific thing to do to one's knees. Johnny G supports none of these moves. :mad:

I think with jumps it depends on how you do them and preserving the integrity of your form. Same with running on the bike. If you are bouncing wildly, your have lost form...your form should resemble as closely as possible to when you are on the road. I really watch my students closely when we do jumps or running because those are the most common times they start to lose form.

Actually Fredrick, spinning most closely resembles road riding in form, etc. than mountain biking I think, but certainly the cardio piece transcends both. And if you goal is to really get better on your road bike, you would be most advantaged to train on an indoor trainer with your bike. BUT that is usually toooo boring!!!! So alas, that's why spinning is such a hit!

[VenusdeVelo]

And Irulan...I think I would rank the standing run-squat abomination and "stand and grind" as the worst. It is so easy to take a good knee and terrorize it that way.

[Irulan]

yes this is why it's important to not be a sheep, and to have at least a basic understanding of what is good for you, and what can hurt.


can you describe a standing run/squat?
Irulan

[VenusdeVelo]

Well it's awful. You stand out of the saddle and bring your body forward so you are for example standing over the down tube, and the saddle is not in the way anymore. Then you do a short squat. Some even go into a run and squat for example every 10 seconds.

Okay, I ask you, can someone tell me WHY you use a spinner for squatting? Wouldn't it make sense to stand on the floor?!

[Irulan]

eww, that sounds terrible. The classes I go to are pretty straight forward ( 24hour fitness) We don't use the bikes for anythign other than the ride, or to put a leg up on the frame post ride to stretch. WE used to do calf stretches standing on the pedals but the maintenance people made us quit.

Irulan

[annie]

Okay, I ask you, can someone tell me WHY you use a spinner for squatting? Wouldn't it make sense to stand on the floor?!

LOL! That IS the question......... I have no idea. Wouldn't it make sense to NOT do squats in Spinning at all? Just ride and do other exercises elsewhere?

As for the "stand and grind" routine, if the instructor is following Spin guidlines, cadence for a hill is supposed to be between 60-80 rpm, no slower. That's not quite a grind but is a cadence that can be used while climbing actual hills outside and should be safe on knees.

Flat riding should be done at 80-110 rpm, again according to Johnny G. Any faster and the flywheel on the bike is doing too much of the work. So sometime when you are in spin class, check your cadence and see how you're doing. I try to have a cadence check at least twice per class, especially if there are new riders in the class, too help everyone get a feel as to where they're at.

Sprinting.......... We have one instructor who simply encourages riders "faster, faster!" when we sprint. His legs are a blur on the bike, but his resistance is so low that there is not much work involved. Before beginning a sprint, resistance needs to be added, more speed isn't always necessary, just intense, maximum effort for the length of the sprint (never longer than 30 seconds.) It's much more challenging this way than simply whipping legs around at 150+ rpm as the wheels zips along. (My pet peeve in spin, so please excuse the ramble here.)

Jumping......... it's interesting to read all the different opinions on that. I have to agree that it doesn't seem to have much to do with riding. Some people like it, some don't. I try to use it sparingly, once, rarely twice, per class, and sometimes not at all.

Running.......... I actually like this even tho' I certainly don't do it often when I am outdoors. If you concentrate on keeping your weight over the pedals, NOT on your hands and arms, keeping a relatively still upper body, I think it is a good workout for your quads and also gives you a sense of floating on the pedals (think of Lance climbing Mount Ventoux) if you can keep an even pressure on those pedals for the entire stroke. It forces you to really concentrate on form. ::::::shrugging:::::::: Each to their own.

I say, try to enjoy the classes. At least you are with other people. If you just don't like what the class is doing, be smart and do your own thing! It's your ride! You are probably paying to be there, make it work for you.

[VenusdeVelo]

I like your stuff Annie, agree 100% -- it's how I teach my classes. I try to show my students the difference between "stand and grind" and 60-80rpm by demonstrating -- stand and grind to me is like you are taking choppy strokes, shooting 1 foot downward then the other. When we go into a hard climb, I try to get them to think about still maintaining those nice smooth pedal circles.

Funny, the spinner "allows" you to stand and grind without immediate consequence -- meaning it does not feel really bad when you do it. If I tried to stand and grind on my road bike on the trainer, my pedals would make this awful clunk sound!

LOL -- I too hate the wildman spin!! I have seen a few like that but I probably have more problems getting certain students to understand resistance on hills. 90% of us are slowing our rpm as we increase resistance and they are still sprinting up the hill....I find people innately HATE to slow their rpm down -- speeding it up makes them look fitter. ;)

Somthing interesting I learned I use in class -- esp when I detect students placing all their weight on the bars. I tell the class to press all your weight on the bars like you are pushing down on a scale. Then I say "Now, keeping your hands where they are, ease all that weight off...this is the lightness you should feel on the bars". No deathgrips! :D

So much fun teaching people -- it's great when they just start to get it -- I am taking my class through heart rate monitoring right now, and more and more, people are wearing HRMs in class, asking alot of questions -- this makes up for all of the other silly stuff....

[Dogmama]

About pushing down on the bars...

I had a teacher say to envision your arms are like spaghetti - loose & fluid. Worked for me. I do better with visualization on the spinner than with stark commands.

[spokes]

this thread has been immensely helpful.
this is a sidetrack and slight hijack (from spinning class to home spinning):
i realized that with winter (and snow and cold, and wimpiness:D ) i am letting myself get all soft. :eek: come spring i'll huff and puff after ten minutes on the road-- if i don't get my butt in gear (so to speak :rolleyes: )
so... i finally started using the indoor trainer that i bought in october. my biggest complaint? boooooriiiing!! i started doing 15 min at a time and couldn't wait to get off the bike. so, i've learned to bike while watching something good on tv (if it's old or crap, i'll die of boredom!) a friend of mine had the same experience-- she started using the 'chicago' soundtrack as motivational music. i'm not really a chicago fan, but i think the buffy the vampire slayer 'once more with feeling' soundtrack will do the trick! (shhh! don't tell anyone i'm a loser :o)
anyway, the tips about sprinting, spagetti arms (anyone else remember that from 'dirty dancing'?) 'jumps', etc are very enlightening. hopefully i can vary my spinning a bit, and keep boredom at bay. any anti-boredom tips would be appreciated-- as usual, you've all been very helpful. thanks!

[Veronica]

Hey another Buffy fan! :p

I'm a big fan of the Spinervals tapes. I like my indoor workouts to have a focus and the videos really help with that. AND I don't feel like I lose any ground over the winter between the tapes, a few spin classes a week and whatever rides I can get in when Mother Nature cooperates.

Veronica