What if your LBS owner was a felon?

[Adventure Girl]

Somewhat off topic, but I'd like to get your opinion on a rather odd subject.

A former pro cyclist owns a bike shop near me. To the cycling community, his name is fairly well-known. (I've even heard Phil and Paul talk about him on OLN during TdF coverage). The shop sells pretty high end bikes and equipment.

He was convicted of 10 felony counts including performing lewd or lascivious acts with a child under 14 years and sex penetration with foreign object: victim under 16 years. This is a matter of public record, not just rumor or speculation. He served his sentence and is now on probation. He is now a registered sex offender.

So here's my question. Some of my cycling friends still patronize his shop. Would you?

[maillotpois]

Sounds like Jock Boyer.....

My feeling is, he did the crime, he did his time. Let him move on and run a bike shop. (If it is Boyer, he also just did RAAM). I would patronize his shop if it had good products and good service. That I don't know about.

The real question is, would I let my daughter patronize him shop, unsupervised. Em often walks into town by herself and goes into shops - the high end pet supply shop is her favotire. But if this person's bike shop was in town and she could walk there (at age 10) - would I let her? And I am just not sure. Most likely it would be fine - and certainly there would be other employees/patrons there. So I probably would. With some specific direction to her on the issue.

[Denise223]

No, I wouldn't.

When you hurt a child in that manner, you lose your right (in my opinion), to be a trusted "human being" <<-- I use that term lightly, too.

It has been proven again & again that child predators cannot be reformed.

There's really nothing to prevent him from hurting another child again!

Denise

[Nanci]

No, I wouldn't. I would feel like vomiting or ripping his willie off every time I went in there.

Nanci

[bcipam]

No, I wouldn't.

When you hurt a child in that manner, you lose your right (in my opinion), to be a trusted "human being" <<-- I use that term lightly, too.

It has been proven again & again that child predators cannot be reformed.

There's really nothing to prevent him from hurting another child again!

Denise

Denise - I'm right there with you. Just on moral principal I personally would not patronize the shop.

Of course my not patronizing the shop has nothing to do with the fact he would or would not hurt a child again. If I had the power, I would make sure others knew of this situation and that their children are protected. Sounds mean I guess, but a child's innocence is worth it! I would let others who patronize the shop know about the situation so they don't bring their children in there. I also believe he needs to be watched when he's away from the shop.

[maillotpois]

Maybe I am soft on crime. :rolleyes:

I guess my response has to do with me knowing something about the case - if we're indeed talking about Boyer. My understanding was that he wasn't a serial child molester. While there were many counts, my understanding was it was all related to an incident with one specific minor. If those are the facts - then what he did was terrible and wrong. But I would probably go to his shop.

If he had been a serial molester, then the response would be more along the lines of what others have said.

[pooks]

One victim is one victim too many for me to want to spend money at that store.

[bcipam]

I second that!

[snapdragen]

I'm with MP on this one, I read up on the case. Things aren't always what they seem.

[Geonz]

I agree. There are lots of people doing things that cause egregious harm to others... they just don't get caught, or we don't react as viscerally. (Sweat shop products for starters?) If I, personally, **know** the story, I can decide. What am I supporting with the alternatives?

[KnottedYet]

If I knew he'd molested even ONE child, there is no way I could go into his shop, let alone spend money there.

Doesn't mean no-one else should, just means I wouldn't/couldn't.

I've done more than my share of work with child-molestation victims and seen the effects of a grown-up's uncontrollable obssession with children. From a personal gut-level stand point, I would not go to the shop, no matter how famous or good a biker he is.

[bcipam]

This is an interesting debate and I have to admit some ignorance - I don't know Jock Boyer so I looked him up. I know he was arrested for child molestation. If merely arrested and not convicted, then I would give him the benefit of the doubt (but still would not bring children to his shop). If convicted, and someone please confirm whether or not this is the case, then that would be it for me. Even if there are some "grays" to consider, I would choose on the side of caution and just not visit that LBS. But that's just me.

I also make a concious choice not to patronize certain business for certain practices I consider to be immoral.

Nice thing about this country - I always have a choice!

Back to the debate - I have heard grown men attempt to argue there is nothing wrong with having a sexual realtionship with a 16 year old because the relationship was consentual. Yes I understand there are alot of silly, ignorant girls out there but as an adult, we are burdened with making the choice and we have to say NO, period, just can't go there regardless of how willing the young girl is. AND if in the Boyer case, the girl made up some of the claims, then just don't put yourself in a position to have someone make up claims about you. He did something wrong even if it was to just inappropriately befriend a young girl, then that's still wrong.

[Selkie]

I'm with MP on this one, I read up on the case. Things aren't always what they seem.

I agree w/you, Snap.

[snapdragen]

Unfortunately, there are bad people out there. Unless I know for sure the history, I am wary of the sex offender label. Here is why.

A friend of mine had an aquaintance, a young (in his 20's) gay man. This man met another young man, the attraction was there, and they both went home to young man #2's house. They had sex, then young man #2 left the room, and came back in with his mother.

They informed man #1 that #2 was under age - and if he did not pay them a certain amount of money, they'd call the police and have him charged. So he had a choice, be blackmailed by this boy and his mother (for who knows how long), or be branded as a sex offender for the rest of his life. His word against theirs. How would you choose?

[mimitabby]

Unfortunately, there are bad people out there. Unless I know for sure the history, I am wary of the sex offender label. Here is why.

A friend of mine had an aquaintance, a young (in his 20's) gay man. This man met another young man, the attraction was there, and they both went home to young man #2's house. They had sex, then young man #2 left the room, and came back in with his mother.

They informed man #1 that #2 was under age - and if he did not pay them a certain amount of money, they'd call the police and have him charged. So he had a choice, be blackmailed by this boy and his mother (for who knows how long), or be branded as a sex offender for the rest of his life. His word against theirs. How would you choose?

so what did he choose?

I will put in my 2cents here too. i would not trust the owner of this LBS with my children, but I would give him a go with my bike. Lots of trusted
citizens do lots of nasty stuff but just haven't been caught. the guy did his time. he deserves to be able to have a chance to earn a living honestly.

[Jones]

[QUOTE=bcipam]
Nice thing about this country - I always have a choice!
QUOTE]
I would choose to spend my money elsewhere.

[SadieKate]

Without knowing the facts, I feel I must allow a person to participate as a normal member of society once he has done penance. I can use discretion in my dealings, as well as my family members', with him but life is not black and white. Our justice system is designed to hopefully dole out justice based on the truth but it isn't infallible and deals are frequently struck for the wrong reasons.

[kelownagirl]

Nope, couldn't even look at him wihtout barfing. He did that to a kid under 14. There's no rationalizing it in my books...:(

[spazzdog]

Wouldn't get my business either...

Though I'm surprised he's allowed to run a business that does have "minors" as clientele. Does he have a sign on the door that barrs entry to anyone under 18 (or whatever the age of consent is)?

[bcipam]

Unfortunately, there are bad people out there. Unless I know for sure the history, I am wary of the sex offender label. Here is why.

A friend of mine had an aquaintance, a young (in his 20's) gay man. This man met another young man, the attraction was there, and they both went home to young man #2's house. They had sex, then young man #2 left the room, and came back in with his mother.

They informed man #1 that #2 was under age - and if he did not pay them a certain amount of money, they'd call the police and have him charged. So he had a choice, be blackmailed by this boy and his mother (for who knows how long), or be branded as a sex offender for the rest of his life. His word against theirs. How would you choose?

I would choose not to have casual sex... and cause the problem in the first place.

Also - here's my problem with this debate - we are not discussing some guy who when he was young, burglaried houses to buy drugs. Wrong no question and I would expect him to pay the price but afterwards I would give him a chance if he straightened himself out. BUT we are talking about someone, who in my mind and in my very hmble opinion, has committed the ultimate crime and sin... I personally cannot excuse the behavior of someone who preys on children... be it cyclist, or neighbor, or parent, or priest. This is a sin that cannot be forgiven. But thankfully there are lots of folks out there more forgiving than I and since he has a name and a reputable (as a cyclist) he'll no doubt do well without my business.

I don't shop at Walmart or buy Nike because of their business practices but will my behavior affect either business? No. But in my heart I'm chose to do the right thing.

[mimitabby]

I would choose not to have casual sex... and cause the problem in the first place.


I don't shop at Walmart or buy Nike because of their business practices but will my behavior affect either business? No. But in my heart I'm chose to do the right thing.


yup, first, to thine own heart be true; and that's probably the best advice we
can give you. Do what YOU feel comfortable. We all have our own opinions, and you have yours too.
m

[salsabike]

I agree with mimitabby and the others on this one. Convicted felons need to be able to make a living, and trying to make sure they can't succeed doesn't make any of us safer.

[betagirl]

While I'd like to say I'd try to not discriminate against him for his crimes, my gut reaction is that I wouldn't shop there because of the severe nature of his crime. But shunning him doesn't do any good in his attempts to re-enter society. It's a tricky thing.

[Kitsune06]

I'm with MT.

I wouldn't let my kid in that shop alone unless she knew the circumstances (but I don't have kids...)

Also, I'm pretty wary of the 'sex offender' title. I had a friend who was nailed with 'statutory rape' when he and his 16 year old girlfriend broke up on harsh terms, and the girlfriend's mother encouraged her daughter to press charges on him. He was 19 at the time. Yes, 16 and 19 are a large age gap... but still.

[pooks]

I dunno. A 46-year-old man who pleads guilty to numerous counts of sexual acts with an underage girl sounds guilty to me. If he pled guilty to avoid going to jail (plea bargain) it still sounds pretty iffy. Who pleads guilty to that kind of offense if they're innocent?

I wouldn't be able to look at him, though, and talk to him and shop in his store. I'd be too creeped out.

[bcipam]

I'm with MT.

I wouldn't let my kid in that shop alone unless she knew the circumstances (but I don't have kids...)

Also, I'm pretty wary of the 'sex offender' title. I had a friend who was nailed with 'statutory rape' when he and his 16 year old girlfriend broke up on harsh terms, and the girlfriend's mother encouraged her daughter to press charges on him. He was 19 at the time. Yes, 16 and 19 are a large age gap... but still.

OK I admit this, I'm old and I guess a prude...

But doesn't anyone see the wrong in a 19 year old having sex with a 16 year old? Yes I know it happens and yes I know it was probably consenual but it's still statutory rape (in the fact the classic def. of statutory rape).

I admit this just to bring some credibility to my arguments; my younger brother is a registered sex offender. He never actually molested anyone but he did download child porn off the internet. Trust me, I have to deal with this issue everyday. I still have not forgiven my brother for what he did (which btw was wrong) but I speak to him and I wish him well and hope he can make something of his life but... I will do what I can in my power to keep him away from small children, even his own nieces and nephews because he now cannot be trusted.

We all live in this society and unless you are a sociopath or retarded, you know the rules. Certain boundaries are never to be broken. Yes he has the right to make a living and yes alot of people will most likely patronize his shop, but I personally would find another shop to spend my money. Again this is the ultimate crime not a petty crime.

[Selkie]

Pam---I'm sorry to hear about your brother. That must be hard for you. I hope he gets some help.

[chickwhorips]

i personally would have to know what the situation is to make a complete decision on the person. there are people out there to slander good names, no matter what.

as far as shopping at a place, i would shop there if need be. though i would not let a minor in there by themselves, knowing a situation like that.

[WrensMom]

Hm. I can see both sides of this, as all of you have presented. It's a tough call, in a way, but honestly, I would most likely not shop there. I have a 2 year old daughter, and the mama-bear in me is very strong. I would have some difficulty with it, so for me it would be just as well to shop elsewhere, which is pretty easy to do anyway.

[latelatebloomer]

I wouldn't blame anyone for refusing to shop there, and for making sure their kids gave the place a wide berth. I'm pretty sure that the man's parole officer has to feel the man is not at risk to repeat the crime, or the officer would not permit the man to have a business that gives him so much contact with the public, and with a young public at that. The convicted offender that I have contact with at the BI rehab is under EXTREMELY tight constraints via his parole officer, and always will be.

For myself, I would give him a chance to rebuild his life. Hopefully, he's doing hard therapuetic work and making financial restitution to the victim, too.

[pedaddler]

no...
i think there should be a special place in hell for those who commit crimes against children.
i think he deserves to earn a living and he's done his time, but i would not knowingly patronize a convicted child molester's shop.

[Brandy]

A sex offender and the case was against a child under 12? Hell no. I wouldn't knowingly give him my business.