Bloody H@ll- Shin splints and the burning in my legs has returned

[KSH]

UGH!

So, as you know, I finally started to run again.

Last Thursday my shins were hurting... shin splints to be exact. I figured the pain would go away. NOPE! Still here, 4 days later. Icing them last night helped, but it was pain to walk down my stairs this morning.

I ran yesterday (Sunday), and here is how it went:

Running: 5 x 400 yards.

1st 400- 2 minutes, and about .25 of walking.

2nd 400- 2 minutes, and about .25 of walking.

3rd 400- 2:30, and about .75 of walking. On this one, the lower leg burning pain, returned. UGH! I did go into this run with pain along my shins, and now the pain I had before, has returned.

4th 400- 2 minutes, about .25 of walking, and lower backside of legs were still burning.

5th 400- some sprinting, some running, some walking.

Overall, nothing felt good on my run. It's hard for me to run in the morning, and espcially since I didn't get a good nights sleep (my neighbor played music ALL NIGHT LONG).


So, the burning in my lower legs has returned. The old injury has reared it's ugly head with my new running form. BLOODY HELL!

I am at a loss of what to do now. I am going to do some research and see if I can't find a Dr. who addresses this type of problem... but then again... what is my problem?

I was suppose to run today, but I refuse to run again until I can get my shins to stop hurting and until I can figure out why my lower legs are burning again.

Thanks for listening. What a saga this has been.

[Nanci]

Maybe you should rule out exertional compartment syndrome.

My symptoms are, within 10 minutes of starting to run, or even very fast walking, burning- REALLY bad burning, down the anterior calf muscle- so the big muscle anterior and lateral on the front of the leg, followed by toe numbness- which I pretty much never noticed because I was so distracted by the pain, but did notice it when they had me run at the ortho clinic on a treadmill, and "foot slap" which is when you are trying not to hurt the muscle, so instead of your foot landing normally, you land really flat-footed- kind of like a Frankenstein run.

Just a thought. It's very rare- but when I asked about it on the Ultra list, many people had experience with it, and had been formally diagnosed, and had the corrective surgery.

Nanci

[KSH]

Hate to sound like a doof... but anterior is on the inside or outside?

I recall you saying that you had this... how did you fix it? Did you get the surgery?

[Nanci]

Anterior means front. Lateral means outside. (Posterior- back, medial- inside).

I was scheduled for the surgery, but the doc had a heart attack, so while I was waiting for him to recover, I chickened out, plus started cycling all the time.

It's still out there for me to do if I ever get into running fast again.

Nanci

[Lise]

KSH, I have nothing to add but my sympathy. I know you've been so diligent about doing everything the trainer tells you to do. Sorry that you're suffering again. That stinks. L.

[kaybee]

KSH, have you considered seeing a podiatrist? You may need custom orthotics for your running shoes. They did wonders for me. :D

KB

[Brina]

that just sucks. I am sorry. I really hoped your running coach was going to solve the problem.

[salsabike]

KSH---know you have probably said this somewhere else, but...have you yet been to a real, high quality, sports medicine clinic? They must have some in Dallas. A sports med doc, not a coach..? There's a university there, right? They might have someone, also...

[KSH]

KSH---know you have probably said this somewhere else, but...have you yet been to a real, high quality, sports medicine clinic? They must have some in Dallas. A sports med doc, not a coach..? There's a university there, right? They might have someone, also...

Well, I did go to one Sport Orthopedic when I twisted my ankle in February.

I dicussed my issues with the lower leg pain/burning, and they pretty much said we could try some orthopedics and see if that helps. Honestly, the answer was pretty lame.

I probably need to find another one.

My coach swears I don't have shin splints... and maybe I don't. He says that my muscles down there are just getting use to the new form. Well, those muscles around my shin/ankle/etc. are making it hard to walk down stairs today (Tues- ran last on Sun). I just think that we upped my mileage too quickly and I was running to fast.

I also told him that I would be willing to go see anyone else I need to, to get the problem looked at resolved.

We will see what happens Thursday.

Thanks for the kind words. My goal of running a 5K by 9-17-06 is pretty much shot. I just hope I can a mile or two in the tri at this point.

[Flatlander]

KSH--

As Nanci suggests, itcould be compartent syndrome. Here is an article from RUnners World about it.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-78-79-0-2859,00.html


If they came back so soon and are bothering you so much, you probably should get them checked out by an orthopedic surgeon to rule this out. This isn't due to por conditioning or running form (Mary Decker Slaney suffered from this condition) and probably won't go away with more exercise.

And if you get it ruled out, well, then that's one less thing to worry about!:)

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble and pain. I hope it gets better soon.

[Nanci]

The thing that they say in that article that isn't quite accurate is that compartment syndrome is caused by overuse. Actually, your muscles develop (from training) until they are bigger than they were, and when they swell more with the increased blood supply during exercise, they are then too big for their sheaths.

Also- my course of events is unusual- (but I've talked at length before/during diagnosis with Tim Noakes, who is one of the leading authorities world-wide on exertional compartment syndrome- he's in South Africa) I get the pain/symptoms about 10 minutes into the run, not matter if I walk first, warm up, massage, start slowly, start fast, run on pavement, run on trail, run every day, take off for months, ride a bike first- no matter what, it starts. Then, (this is the very unusual part) after I run/walk/stretch/cry for about 30-40 minutes, the pain/burning fades quickly, and I can continue to run for as many minutes or hours as I want, pain free, until the next day. When I stop running, I am rarely sore from it, and then minimally, if at all. But when it is going on, it is a VERY severe burning.

It was quite hard to figure out what it was- (I read about it in Tim Noakes' book "The Lore Of Running-" highly recommended, and then get a referral to an ortho surgeon. Me-to PNP at employee health- "I just figured out I have compartment syndrome and I need a referral to ortho." Him "You can't have that, do you even know what it is, it is so rare, that's impossible." I won't leave until I get a referral and he gives up. Me to DO "I just figured out I have compartment syndrome and I want surgery." DO "Well, that sounds like it exactly, let's get you tested." Ortho residents who do the testing "Well, it's very rare, a normal ortho surgeon sees about one case in a lifetime, and here at the big university hospital specializing in sports medicine, we see about four cases a year, but we'll test you anyway and see." And later "You have the most severe case we've ever seen, your pressures are way over the top!!!!!" Ortho surgeon "Yeah, I'm the best, just let me know if you want to do both legs at once or one."

[KSH]

Thanks for the link!

That sounds so serious... but I will discuss it with my coach and maybe ask him to refer me to a Dr. who can test for this. I think the other Orthopedic I have gone to isn't that "advanced".

I have to do something. That surgery sounds aweful though. I would hate to have a scar from my knee to my ankle! :eek:

I think I would take walking in tri's over a scar like that.


get the pain/symptoms about 10 minutes into the run, not matter if I walk first, warm up, massage, start slowly, start fast, run on pavement, run on trail, run every day, take off for months, ride a bike first- no matter what, it starts. When I stop running, I am rarely sore from it, and then minimally, if at all. But when it is going on, it is a VERY severe burning.


That sounds JUST LIKE ME! Seriously.

I think getting tested... wouldn't hurt.


So, you still run... right? And you didn't get the surgery due the Dr. having a heart attack... so what do you do now?

[Nanci]

Well, I only run twice a year! Cycling just took over. I was hoping, if I got really into triathlons, that something would be different, like after the bike I'd be "warmed up past it" or something, but no...It really only affects me if I'm in a short _race_ where I want my time to count, because I can't run fast, and sometimes, most of the time, am reduced to a painful shuffle. So say a 5k- by the time it goes away, the race is over, and I definitely don't have a chance of placing, because I wasn't ever fast to begin with. But a long event, where I don't care about my time, (that much) and just want to finish, like Wickham Park marathon, then I just deal with it until it's gone. Let's say I could swim 2.5 miles- and do an Ironman- I don't think it would be an issue- I could just walk/run the first 40 minutes off the bike, and get it over with.

They told me the scar would be about ten inches long. You _want_ them to do a good job/be able to see/reach everything. I guess it would just fade and blend in. Then crutches for a while, (like, if I had it Thursday, took Friday off, maybe Monday, I would hopefully be back at work Tuesday possibly on crutches, and then they start you off on an exercise bike in a couple weeks (cycling is good!). I guess it's only a really big deal if you do both legs at once, but then that's two OR fees, your legs are at different stages of recovery, two leaves of absence- I just wanted to get it over with.

But now, it's not a priority- so I'm not going to do anything. It doesn't happen with cycling at all.

Good luck convincing someone to test you. The test isn't _that_ bad. They numb up the compartments. They tested my lateral and medial compartments. I had it in both, it turns out. So burning Novacaine to numb it up. Then stick needles in to test initial pressure. Big needle, but ok. Then, run on treadmill till symptoms appear. How embarassing- I'm slow. They're probably thinking, "Why does she even bother??" But the thing is, I'd get it in one leg sometimes, the other leg sometimes, both sometimes. So I had to predict which leg. And, of course, it was the other leg that had it happen, the not numbed leg. So I go lay down, and they have to stick the big needles in without numbing. Great. But not that bad. Because the pressures were sky high!! Then, they do it again five minutes later, and the pressure (which is supposed to be back to normal) is HIGHER!! (I _told_ them so!!)

[KSH]

Thanks for all the details Nancy, I really appreciate it!

Yea, if cycling has taken over.. then why bother. Just do your 2 running events and year... and be done with it. :)

I have to say, if I have a choice between a 10 inch scar and not running... I pick not running. I've never even been that good of a runner. And it's not like I'm a pro. Not to mention, the scars I have from past surgeries... do not heal.

Thanks again for all the information. I really appreciate it!

[btchance]

Wow, KSH, I'm so sorry you're going through all this. After all the hope you had that the coaching would fix the problem and it didn't must be hard. I hope you find a good doctor that can figure out what's going on. If possible, look for either an ortho or a sports medicine doctor who also runs. They are usually more understanding.

[Nanci]

But she's going to have wonderful form even after the problem, if not form-related, is diagnosed! And probably would have never seen a coach if not induced by pain.

Don't give up. Who cares about a scar. I'm sure they do everything they can to make it look nice! (Although I chose not to have open heart surgery, back when that was an option for me to continue diving, bacause of the scar- but that's a MAJOR scar!!)

[KSH]

But she's going to have wonderful form even after the problem, if not form-related, is diagnosed! And probably would have never seen a coach if not induced by pain.

Don't give up. Who cares about a scar. I'm sure they do everything they can to make it look nice! (Although I chose not to have open heart surgery, back when that was an option for me to continue diving, bacause of the scar- but that's a MAJOR scar!!)

HA! HA! RIGHT?! My form will be *perfect* :D .

I won't give up. I don't care about a scar... but we aren't to that bridge yet. I have to remember that!

And... running/not running... either way. It's all good. If I can't run... I can't run. I will come up with a Plan B at that point. Life is not over. :D

Thanks for all the kind words and positive encouragement!

[KSH]

So, I laid in bed last night... thinking, "What will I do if I can't run".

And I figured it out...

I am a fast swimmer, and with more time in the water, I can hang with the top of the pack.

Instead of spending my time on trying to get better at running... I can focus on becoming a speed demon on the bike.

I will practice becoming a speedy walker. I have been a pretty fast walker in the past, and I am pretty sure I can get it back.

The time I make up on the swim and bike... will keep me solid on the run/walk segment.

So, that is my Plan B.

Otherwise, my plan is just to ignore the pain and keep running. The burning is just that... burning. If I can get to a point where I can embrace that pain... I can run.

[colby]

You'll make it, KSH. No matter what it takes, you've already proven that you're a fighter, and you'll get there.

Don't get too discouraged, and don't let it ruin your triathlon experience, either. Maybe you'll find SOMEONE who can help you find an answer!

It was hard to read about your frustration after all the success you've had with the running coach, but it's great to read that you're willing to consider Plan B.

Good luck!!

[summer]

Hi all...I've just had bilateral fasciotomies (means both legs at once) to correct compartment syndrome. After twenty years thinking I had shin splints and wondering why all my efforts (soft ground, gentle training etc) made no difference, and why it hurt so much on the rower, climbing on the bike, in time trial position etc (none of which shoudl be a problem for shin splints), it was a military doctor who said it might be exertional compartment syndrome (seems they see it a lot in the army). A year of trying orthotics, having pressure tests (which aren't fun but aren't too bad either) we went for surgery. I had the operation on December 7th, was walking without crutches that same day, had staples out (5 on one leg, eight on the other) after a week, and am already back on the turbo trainer and feeling great! The scars are narrow and about 2 inches long on each leg (my hubby thinks they're really cool), and apart from a bit of bruising around my ankle which is taking ages to go away, it was a piece of cake. Time will tell if it worked (it's too early for me to train hard), but my advice is, get it checked properly with a pressure test, and don't be afraid of the operation! It's a lot more common that they say, I think because most doctors don't know enough about it to look for it! Anyway, good luck!

[KSH]

Hi all...I've just had bilateral fasciotomies (means both legs at once) to correct compartment syndrome. After twenty years thinking I had shin splints and wondering why all my efforts (soft ground, gentle training etc) made no difference, and why it hurt so much on the rower, climbing on the bike, in time trial position etc (none of which shoudl be a problem for shin splints), it was a military doctor who said it might be exertional compartment syndrome (seems they see it a lot in the army). A year of trying orthotics, having pressure tests (which aren't fun but aren't too bad either) we went for surgery. I had the operation on December 7th, was walking without crutches that same day, had staples out (5 on one leg, eight on the other) after a week, and am already back on the turbo trainer and feeling great! The scars are narrow and about 2 inches long on each leg (my hubby thinks they're really cool), and apart from a bit of bruising around my ankle which is taking ages to go away, it was a piece of cake. Time will tell if it worked (it's too early for me to train hard), but my advice is, get it checked properly with a pressure test, and don't be afraid of the operation! It's a lot more common that they say, I think because most doctors don't know enough about it to look for it! Anyway, good luck!


Thanks for your story Summer! We would be interested to see how the healing goes.

I have pretty much figured out that I have muscles in my lower legs that get very tight. My goal is to stregthen them through drills and running.

I have gotten to where I can run on a regular basis. True, not always pain free, but I'm learning how to manage my pain through ice and stretching.

Keep us updated. Your surgery sounds very promising.

[spokewench]

Well, I did go to one Sport Orthopedic when I twisted my ankle in February.

I dicussed my issues with the lower leg pain/burning, and they pretty much said we could try some orthopedics and see if that helps. Honestly, the answer was pretty lame.

I probably need to find another one.

My coach swears I don't have shin splints... and maybe I don't. He says that my muscles down there are just getting use to the new form. Well, those muscles around my shin/ankle/etc. are making it hard to walk down stairs today (Tues- ran last on Sun). I just think that we upped my mileage too quickly and I was running to fast.

I also told him that I would be willing to go see anyone else I need to, to get the problem looked at resolved.

We will see what happens Thursday.

Thanks for the kind words. My goal of running a 5K by 9-17-06 is pretty much shot. I just hope I can a mile or two in the tri at this point.

How long were you not running? Where are you running, i.e. what kind of surface? Were you still jogging right before you did this work out?

I'm asking these questions, cause running is really quite different from riding. Yes, you can get really sore from a workout if you are not used to it; and shin splints can also be caused by running on a really hard surface. As I have gotten older, I have to be really careful about how much I do when I start doing something different, i.e. like sprinting! Sprinting is like the worst thing I can do to make myself really sore! It seems like no matter how I warm up or how much stretching I do, I always tear a hamstring when I start sprinting. The work out above seems like too much for me to start with. Maybe it was for you. Everyone is different and has different abilities to handle the stress of a new workout.

spoke