Suicide bars are not suicide bars?

[plantluvver]

When trying out a new bike yesterday, I noticed brake levers along the top bar of a drop handle bar. This made me suspicious, because I know that suicide bars are dangerous. LBS said these are not suicide bars, because they have a separate cable, and are much shorter, than the old suicide bars, which were a curved bar that extended from the brake at the bend of the handlebar, to parallel the top bar.

What do you gals think? On my current bike, I avoid positioning my hands across the top bar, due to fear of relying on the suicide bars, so I tend to only hold the brake hoods.

Mary

[SadieKate]

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=7335&highlight=suicide+levers

Do you mean suicide brake levers?

Don't confuse suicide levers with today's interrupter levers. Different mechanical design. Popular with cyclocrossers.

They do place your hands closer to the center which is inherently less stable steering but the levers themselves are a different animal than days gone by.

[kelownagirl]

I am considering getting those levers on my new bike. I miss them even though I haven't ridden my old 10 speed for 25 years. My hands naturally go there to brake although I'm sure I'll get used to moving to the hoods pretty soon. Thank for clarifying that they are safer now. My LBS guy also said they were much better made now that the old days, although they were discouraging me from getting them installed. I think they are just road bike purists who don't like messing with the intent of the bike...

[plantluvver]

I don't know where I got the word "bars" from, but yes. So the new ones are safe? But not "professsional?"(as I picked up in the other post?

I really miss using the position on the upper bar of my drops, but I used to use ONLY those while a teenager. And I am scared to put my hands anywhere near them, cuz I will use them if they are there. I probably should just saw them off?

BTW, I want a kickstand on my bike. I don't care how "dorky" it is. However, I would like one that supports the bike stabily. I had lots of trouble with packing my groceries onto the Schwinn, The lean became too much, and the bike would topple. I suppose touring bikes must use something... One place I lock up at, there is nothing to lock up to, except a log "bumper" to stop cars from going over the edge, and into the river. There are places down on the dock, but I think it is rude to park ny bike down there, and take up space on the dock.

Mary

[Kalidurga]

What do you gals think? On my current bike, I avoid positioning my hands across the top bar, due to fear of relying on the suicide bars, so I tend to only hold the brake hoods.

BTW, I want a kickstand on my bike. I don't care how "dorky" it is.

I have both!

My cyclocross bike came with "suicide" brake levers and I don't find that I rely on them any more than the other brake levers. The surface I'm riding on tends to influence my hand position on the bars, and I use whichever brake lever happens to be at hand (no pun intended). I haven't had any control issues yet. They have the same stopping power as the other levers and I haven't noticed any steering problems when I use the flats.

And, I had the LBS install a kickstand when I bought the bike. I said the exact same thing, too: I don't care how dorky it is. I hate to lean my bike on anything that might scratch it or to just drop it on its side. If I leave it standing upright on its own when I stop for a break, then I can stand back and admire it more easily ;)

[Quillfred]

Add another vote for the top brakes.

I find if anything, they add safety and convenience, especially on my commute when I have to make frequent stops.

I used to ride 10 speeds in high school in the mid 1970s. I was a total ditz when it came to bike maintenance and never once lubed a chain let alone much else unless the poor bike didn't work right.

I've atoned since. :o

Quillfred - kind to bikes

[plantluvver]

"Suicide brake levers are the ones on old ten speeds with drop handle bars. The standard brake handle is located at the bend in the bar, while the "suicide lever" comes under and parallels the top bar. If they were straightened out, they would be about 8" long. These are what I have. Should I just file off those levers? As a teen, these were all I used. In fact, I did not want a bike without them, because I didn't think I could get to the standard brake lever in timeto stop.:eek:

The other levers are short, about 4" long, the entire lever is located at the horizontal bar, and functions by a separate cable. These are safe? Are they common? I would really hate to rely on them, and then later, have to get used to them being gone. I might react automatically in a situation and NO BRAKE!

Mary

[eofelis]

Are you talking about cyclocross brake levers?

The brake cable runs through the 'cross levers to the brake. It is not a separate cable.

I had some put on my touring bike. I liked them so much I had them put on my road bike too. They work great. I really like them on long descents, when it's hard to hold onto the regular brake levers for a long time. I use them sometimes for just riding around town too.

Sure, they look super-phreddish, but I feel they enhance my comfort and safety on the bike.

http://thumb15.webshots.com/t/48/49/9/67/80/2604967800046505395mZVutJ_th.jpg (http://community.webshots.com/photo/2604967800046505395mZVutJ)


http://thumb15.webshots.com/t/60/60/4/72/92/2696472920046505395lvqdPN_th.jpg (http://community.webshots.com/photo/2696472920046505395lvqdPN)

[plantluvver]

I remember him saying that there were separate cables. Honestly, I just wanted to leave the store, and was distracted. ( I had somewhere to go, and I did not want to be looking at bikes just then.

Now that I've got one bike fixed, and feel like I can fix the other myself, I can relax. I don't need to rush out and buy a bike. I'll keep my eyes open for the next beauty though. I was just frantic over not having a bike for my commute that night, and thoroughly fed up with the inconvenience of hauling around bikes on the bus, and not getting them rideable, for various reasons.

But now the bike godess is smilng upon me, because I dedicated the afternoon to my Schwinn Traveller.

Mary

[DebW]

I really miss using the position on the upper bar of my drops, but I used to use ONLY those while a teenager. And I am scared to put my hands anywhere near them, cuz I will use them if they are there. I probably should just saw them off?

BTW, I want a kickstand on my bike. I don't care how "dorky" it is. However, I would like one that supports the bike stabily.
Mary

The old safety/suicide lever can be removed by unscrewing the large screw (star washer underneath it) that connects it to the side of the normal brake lever. This will leave a 1/2 inch post sticking out from the side of the lever. The post is not a functional problem, but will make it hard to use the top of the lever (but the levers have no rubber hoods anyway). When the safety levers were installed, a similar shorter post was removed from that spot. [I installed hundreds of those ### things back in the 70s - you couldn't talk people out of them.] If you remove them, you will probably need to tighten the brakes, since they kept the brake lever open by 1/4 inch all the time.

If you go with a kickstand on your bike, note that the length of the kickstand will change the lean and stability of the bike. The better alloy ones are cut to length with a hacksaw, so make sure it gets cut to fit your bike properly. Everybody wanted kickstands in the 70s too.

[plantluvver]

QUOTE:

"Everybody wanted kickstands in the 70s too."

Are you saying I'm OLD?:D ( No, I guess you're saying WE'RE old!;) But I am still a dork!:o I've grown used to the idea that I will never be slick, and ride a rocket.:p

Just Kidding.

But I am wondering what tourers do. (Tourists? Tourerers? ) What is the proper English, seems like tourist is right, but don't they deserve their own word? Bad enough we share "cyclist" with motorcyclists, but to share a noun with some fat geezers sitting on an air-conditioned bus, doing 17 cities in three days.:confused:

Back to my question. My kickstand is inadequate when I am creatively bungieing (Well, it's a verb now:rolleyes: ), say, a 25 lb. frozen turkey and its accessories on my rack. (I gotta get panniers!) Tourists must use something to hold up their loaded bikes at times, I would think.

I guess I will need to find the Tourer porn website with all the pics of loaded bikes. Don't know if I bookmarked it.

Mary

[DebW]

QUOTE:

"Everybody wanted kickstands in the 70s too."

Are you saying I'm OLD?:D ( No, I guess you're saying WE'RE old!;) But I am still a dork!:o I've grown used to the idea that I will never be slick, and ride a rocket.:p

Just Kidding.

Back to my question. My kickstand is inadequate when I am creatively bungieing (Well, it's a verb now:rolleyes: ), say, a 25 lb. frozen turkey and its accessories on my rack. (I gotta get panniers!) Tourists must use something to hold up their loaded bikes at times, I would think.

Mary

Well, Mary. The 70 were 30+ years ago. That makes us old by some definitions, and young by others. I like to think about stromatolites, and then I feel exceedingly young (on a geological scale).

I think that bicycle tourists do not use kickstands for the reasons you stated - it just wouldn't work with that much weight on the bike. Trees, telephone poles, and buildings would have been the obvious substitutes in most situations. If you could find a double kickstand like motocycles use it would probably work.

I'm trying to picture you bungieing a 25 lb frozen turkey onto your bike. :eek: Kudos to you making your bike a workhorse, not just a pleasure vehicle. You put the rest of us to shame! Maybe you could put a child carrier on the bike and strap the turkey into that - those held 25 lb kids and had 3 sides. [But if you do it, we need a picture!] Better yet a trailer and then the bike won't be tippy.

[emily_in_nc]

Actually, the right kickstand can hold an awful lot of touring gear (admittedly, we were not carrying sleeping bags and tents, but we had plenty of stuff in our panniers). Here are my husband and myself and our loaded Bike Fridays:

http://home.earthlink.net/~emilys7/day5_bear_em_bikes.JPG

We have also used panniers for grocery hauling, and the kickstands do come in handy! Sure, I wouldn't put one on my carbon Aegis Swift, but for a touring/commuter/utility bike, nothing wrong with 'em! :D

Emily

[DebW]

Impressive pictures, Emily. The bikes look very stable with those long-reach kickstands. Were they provided with the Bike Fridays? The Bike Fridays, with their smaller wheels, have an advantage over a road bike with 27 inch wheels because the pannier weight sits lower, so less toppling torque.

[plantluvver]

Ah,

The scienctist / mechanic synergy proves its value once again.:D I had not observed the relationship between toppling and the height of the center of gravity. But it is now SO obvious. I KNEW the BF had smaller wheels, and I KNOW enough physics but I did not make the connection of the height of bike, and topple tendency.:o

So when I find my 27" bike lying helplessly on her side, I needn't blame my lil' old kickstand, who is doing her best. It should also teach me some humility when something obvious eludes the common sense of someone else. And I get annoyed at their lazy thinking;) .

Thanks for your insight,
Mary

[KnottedYet]

Wow, Emily, cool picture!

(now I want a bike Friday...)

:D

[emily_in_nc]

Impressive pictures, Emily. The bikes look very stable with those long-reach kickstands. Were they provided with the Bike Fridays? The Bike Fridays, with their smaller wheels, have an advantage over a road bike with 27 inch wheels because the pannier weight sits lower, so less toppling torque.

Good point! I am sure you're right. And yes, the kickstands were specific to this Bike Friday model and purchased from Bike Friday. Very heavy duty!

Emily

[plantluvver]

BTW, Bike Friday has some sort of referral program, so let's help Emily earn her next Bike Friday, then she will have to sell hers at our forum to give me a chance to buy a used non-lemon Bike Friday.:D

Just kidding, I don't know Emily's size. Besides, she's already happy with her bike. Then she can take the cash and spend it at Team Estrogen to support this lovely forum.:cool:

http://www.bikefriday.com/referralAwards.cfm

Mary

[emily_in_nc]

Mary, you are too sweet! :)

I'm not ready to sell my sweet little Bike Friday just yet...but I am always happy to get a referral credit. We turned our neighbor onto one and got a credit for his, but haven't spent it yet.

Emily