I hate being called "nurse"!!!

[Fuji Girl]

No offense to nurses, of course. The world needs more good nurses. But not ALL medical women are nurses!

I was riding on the lake path this evening, when I noticed a group of people collected up ahead. As I slowed down, I saw a young woman lying on the ground. She was all scratched up with blood all over her face, she was dazed and completely disoriented. I introduced myself to her, told her I was a doctor, and did a quick exam. Tested her reflexes, looked into her pupils, looked into her mouth, checked her ribs for fracture, tested the strength in her extremities, stabilized her neck, checked her pulse, assessed her mental status, reassured her that her teeth were all still in her mouth, etc. From what I could gather from the crowd, she had been running and collided with a cyclist (who was still at the scene, very concerned). The girl was bad off - she hit her head pretty hard.

When the paramedics got there, I started to give them a history, when one of them asked me "Are you a nurse?" I said no, I'm a doctor. After that, THEY STOPPED LISTENING TO ME. In fact, they completely ignored me and walked away to check out the patient on their own. I couldn't believe it. In fact, I thought I was imagining it, until 2 girls thanked me for taking charge of the situation and told me they thought the paramedics were jack-a*ses for not even listening to me.

I did not obtain this education (4 yrs of med school + 5 yrs of residency + 2 yrs of fellowship) to be called nurse and ignored by some punk-a*s SOBs who think they're better than me just because I have an 46,XX karyotype. Ooo, that makes me so mad!

[light_sabe_r]

I can't believe idiots like that still exist in this day and age.

I'm a medical researcher. And yet people assume that I must be a nurse because I work at a hospital. Honestly I don't know the first thing about treatments (diagnosis I know how from my degree) BUT if you even need a graft come and see me and I'll grow you some of your own skin or fat.

Like Fuji Girl says, Nothing against nurses. In fact without nurses I couldn't do ANY of my project. They're wonderful people who wade through all sorts of nasty stuff to earn a living. PLUS THEY CARE. I'm just sick of the assumption that a girl with medical knowledge and interests must be nurses!

So yeah. The fact the Paramedics ignored you is just bogus. Make a complaint to your State's emergency services department.

[Lise]

fuji--I am so sorry those morons ignored you. I cannot imagine why they would disregard the input of a doc. I am seriously baffled. What, they didn't believe that you were a doc? Wierd. You were true to your training and the spirit of your profession when you stopped to render aid. I hope the girl is OK. Just out of curiousity--was it on the north branch? If so, it will further reinforce my avoidance of that area.

FWIW, I hate being called "nurse", too. And I am a nurse. I am a Certified Nurse-Midwife. I went to nursing school so I could go on for the further training/education/certification/licensure to be a midwife. Not so I could be a nurse. For me, the nursing training is a coincidence of the certification requirements in this country. For me, the problem is that there is no title for "Midwife" in this country. You are Dr. Fuji. I am .... Ms. H. No honorific. So the hispanic pts call me "doctora", and I stopped correcting them long ago. One of the nurses at work greets me, "Hello, doctor", and I remind her I'm not a doctor, and she says, "well, you should be called doctor", and I say, "but I'd have to go back to school for too long" and we laugh... and yet, it's annoying. People want to respect me, but have no title. They don't know I'm grinding my teeth when I'm called "Nurse".

I'm still shaking my head over the paramedics. You know they would've been reeeeal attentive if you were a guy. Dr. Guy. Blech on them. :mad:

[velogirl]

I crack up at something in the fitness industry -- coaches who call themselve "Coach Bob" or "Coach Tim" or "Coach Dan." WTF. I'm a full-time coach -- I do this for a living -- and I don't call myself Coach Lorri. I'm also an MBA (and a BFA). Maybe I should be Coach Lorri, BFA, MBA.....

In the coaching industry, it's a marketing tool, but folks who know me know I'm a coach. Sheesh!


Lorri (who btw calls her doctors by their first names)

[velogirl]

Even funnier to me are volunteer or hobbyist coaches who use the title coach. You know, someone who has a full-time job as an engineer or an accountant but volunteers with some organization (like TnT or JDRA or whatever). No training, no certification, no education......just a title.

</rant>

[KnottedYet]

I don't have a title. Bummer. I'm just an assistant. What drives me nuts is getting asked all the time if I'm a student, or if I'm ever gonna finish school.

Um, I have a complete degree. In fact, I have 3 of them. I'm done. This is it.

Until I go to grad school to be a librarian because I'm getting so burned out on health care and being "just" an assistant. (I've already spent 9 years in college... do I really want to spend 3 more?)

[Nanci]

You have a what??? (46,XX karyotype)

Maybe they thought, since you were an MD, then everything was under control and they could go ahead do their assessment on a presumably stable pt?

I'm a tech. Patients always assume I'm either a doctor or a nurse or a transporter!!

But in the south, everyone is addressed by Mr./Miss plus their first name. Our friends' kids call us Miss Nanci and Mr. BF. I call patients Miss or Mr. Last Name (first name is too familiar to me. There is no Ms. down here). Older people, like my supervisor, (who is a black minister in his other life!) call the techs Miss Nanci and Mr. Ken.

I call the residents by their first names, but the attendings by Dr. So and So. Unless I'm interrupting the resident with a patient, then I try to call them Dr. So and So. But it sounds funny!

[betagirl]

You have a what??? (46,XX karyotype)

46,XX karyotype = woman in chromosome speak.

Fuji, that sucks. My first reaction was "Gee a crash on the path? What a surprise :D" It was very cool of you to stop and help, and well the paramedics can go get bent. I can see how that would get you steamed. Maybe they watch too much Dennis Leary in Rescue Me :D

To add to the titles rant, I'm in school for clinical psychology which has this odd air of mystery to it to a lot of people. I don't know how many have asked me if I'm reading their mind, assessing them every time I see them, if that's the same thing as a psychiatrist (no offense to doctors :D), and just a general change in facial expression that I'm up to no good half the time when I disclose what I do. Even people I've known literally all my life acted goofy around me when I first told them I was in school again. Maybe that's how they cope with having someone who's trained to figure out people's inner workings, but that's psych speak. Maybe they're just being silly/naive and need to get over it :D

[btchance]

Oh, Fuji girl, I'm so sorry. For someone who works in the medical profession to do that, well, I just don't understand it. For what it's worth, I'm a medical student, and it seems like when I go into a patients room whether I'm by myself or with another doctor, almost half the epatients are convinced I'm a nurse in training at some point, with a few of them basically refusing to be corrected. And a lot of these are women!! Now, I have no desire to be called doctor as I'm not one yet, and I have come to love many of the nurses I'm working with (they are invaluable), but still, I would like people to realize which degree I'm working on. Oh, and it happened yesterday with an educated lady in her 30s.

[Flatlander]

This post makes me smile--the problem is familiar to me.

I'm a college professor with a PhD. When I am introduced, along with male colleagues, to a group of students, they invariably address the males as "Dr. So and So," while they address me as "Mrs. Tomlinson." This implies, of course, that it is expected that a man would have a PhD, but not a woman. In doing this, we also unconsciously elevate the relative authority of the man over the woman in the classroom.

For along time this made me angry. Recently, however, I decided to treat it as a teaching moment. I now start the first day of classes by introducing myself (I always did that before; the students just didn't "hear" the "Dr." part). Now, however, I go on to tell them about being addressed as Mrs while my male colleagues are more approprietly addressed. They are always shocked and dismayed to hear this (even though they would prob. do the same if I hadn't pointed it out;) ). Then I go on to further explain that this is a reflection of how we place genders in roles, even when we're aren't aware of it, and that by insisting that they address me as Dr. T--, I am implanting the idea in the female students' heads that yes, they, too, are capable of earning a PhD. Further, since this is not about "I've got a PhD so I'm more special than you," I tell them, once they graduate and we are no longer in a teacher/student relationship, they are free to address me as "Susan."

To me, this is not about "titles," nor is it about whether one profession more "special" than another. It is about what we expect from gender roles and relative authority/ability.

[Faust]

ok ok I have to flip the coin here. BTW thanks Dr. Fuji for the props to the nurses :) I am a nurse and while I was working in a pre-op clinic I would enter the room "Hi are you Mr. Smith?" the cold snotty response would sometimes be "I'm DR Smith." OOOOkaaay hi Dr. SOB I mean Smith. (Only later to find out most of these doctors were Phd's or vets.) I worked with about 25 doctors and always called them by their first name. Maybe it was because they were anesthesiologist and they gave up a long time trying to convince people that they were real doctors.
Also, there is a serious gender problem in medicine. Along side doctors we would have about four residents working, and on the days when it was an all female staff the patients would always ask "But when am I gonna see a doctor" ... Hello! You just saw one! :confused:

[Flatlander]

ok ok I have to flip the coin here. BTW thanks Dr. Fuji for the props to the nurses :) I am a nurse and while I was working in a pre-op clinic I would enter the room "Hi are you Mr. Smith?" the cold snotty response would sometimes be "I'm DR Smith." OOOOkaaay hi Dr. SOB I mean Smith. (Only later to find out most of these doctors were Phd's or vets.) I worked with about 25 doctors and always called them by their first name. Maybe it was because they were anesthesiologist and they gave up a long time trying to convince people that they were real doctors.
Also, there is a serious gender problem in medicine. Along side doctors we would have about four residents working, and on the days when it was an all female staff the patients would always ask "But when am I gonna see a doctor" ... Hello! You just saw one! :confused:


This makes me smile, too. Most of my friends who have PhDs rarely introduce themselves as "Dr." outside the classroom. Again, it's not about the title.

I'm baffled as to why anyone would use a title--any title--outside of a professional situation...after all, who would care?;)

[wannaduacentury]

Hi Fuji girl. When I was growing up, my parents and I were in the fire dept and they were state lic EMT's. There was one time at a picnic where someone collapsed and cpr had to be done and there were 2 md's on the scene as well. It has always been customary that the md's had the say so and the emt's that came w/ the ambulance took their directions very carefully. If someone has more training above a EMT or paramadic rank, the nurse, dr whichever has the say so on what's best for that patient. and the EMT/paramedic should always defer to them. I can't believe those guys treated you that way. If I were there, I would've helped you set them straight. I hope the jogger is ok.

[Nanci]

Where I work, they always make a big deal out of a pt being an MD. The nurse/whoever is always sure to specify it's _DR_ Smith, not Mr. Smith. I just had a patient the other day that I addressed as Miss Smith correct me and say "It's _Doctor_ Smith." Oh, what kind of physician are you? It was something weird, like biology!!! Whatever... Just minutes ago, my pt called for me- "Hey Nurse!!" They don't know.

[velogirl]

To add to the titles rant, I'm in school for clinical psychology which has this odd air of mystery to it to a lot of people....Maybe that's how they cope with having someone who's trained to figure out people's inner workings.

I totally forgot about this. I used to date a guy who was a sex therapist. Needless to say, I felt self-conscious about our own physical relationship, enough so that I ended the relationship!

:o

[betagirl]

Velogirl - I've had friends admit to me later on that they didn't want to ask me for advice for a problem they were having out of fear that I'd think they were seeking free psychological care. On the flip side, I'm always leery to provide advice out of concern that people will think I'm analyzing them. I usually add in a disclaimer that I'm acting as a friend, not a psychologist. But still.

[DebW]

I have the opposite problem. I am a scientist and do research and publish papers, so people assume that I have a PhD when I actually do not. Among colleagues, no one uses titles, so sometimes other scientist I work with only find out years later that I'm not a PhD. I do have to check my name badge carefully at meetings and make sure it doesn't say Dr. But there's never an issue of status or title or research quality, since my work is known and published. Correspondence about my work from people who don't know me almost always addresses me as Dr (probably just to be safe and not insult me if I were a PhD). I correct them if it might be an issue of misrepresenting myself.

If you are a medical doctor and are ignored because of your gender, that's a serious issue. I was a bike mechanic in the 1970s and often was not taken seriously as a mechanic because of my gender. So I feel for you. But in your case it's a far more serious issue of patient outcome, not to mention your years of training.

[Brina]

wow, that would piss me off to no end.

[colby]

I crack up at something in the fitness industry -- coaches who call themselve "Coach Bob" or "Coach Tim" or "Coach Dan." WTF. I'm a full-time coach -- I do this for a living -- and I don't call myself Coach Lorri. I'm also an MBA (and a BFA). Maybe I should be Coach Lorri, BFA, MBA.....

We get the same thing in IT. People who sign with their gazillion certifications, their title, you name it. I rarely sign my last name, let alone my qualifications! Then when I do, I get bitten anyway, because my title is a little deceptive... I have a management type title, but nobody is truly "management" in a small company. Sigh...

I travel with my company (network security software) doing trade shows and such sometimes (answering questions for passers-by and during presentations), and I get the assumption that I'm just a marketing or sales person all the time. "Are you a sales person? Marketing?" "No, I'm an engineer." "Oh, really?" <they take two steps back, shocked by the news> "Yes, now what can I do for you?"

They will happily talk over my head, around me, behind me, next to me, to our MALE sales people or a MALE engineer should there be one. ARGH. I've had this problem with co-workers, too, it's like I have to prove not only that I'm good enough, but that I'm so good that I didn't take the job away from some man... or something. And somehow so many guys remember that one experience they had with that one even SLIGHTLY incompetent woman (probably just a miscommunication in the FIRST place) and hold it against every woman they encounter from then on out. Do they consider all men stupid because of all of the stupid men out there? No, just the women.

Hopefully the trails we are blazing today by even discussing and making people aware of these issues will help the daughters of tomorrow... at this point, it's all that keeps me from strangling people who do it ;)

[velogirl]

Yeah, I get that too. I work in a bike shop. When I answer the phone, there are certain customers who immediately want to talk to one of the guys. Doesn't matter what the question is. Doesn't matter that I know more about riding and bikes and mechanics than half our staff. They insist on speaking with a guy.

Now, just to be a tool, I'll tell them that none of the guys are available but that I'm happy to help them.

[SadieKate]

This thread is making me laugh sympathetically. In our company is a Ph.D in something like statistics. We are a medical software company, not academia. Yet, his voice mail is "Hello, you've reached Dr. John Doe's voice mail." He even introduces himself as Dr. So and So when everyone else just gives their name and follows up with the name of their position, such as "I'm Jane Smith, I'm the medical director." It sounds so very weird to my ears, like he's constantly worried that he appears better than everyone else.

[Lise]

I got a name badge at a conference once that read Dr. Lise H--, PhD. Wow, I thought. I went to either medical school or got a doctorate, all in a blackout! :p We got it corrected. I was presenting at the conference, so I got to announce, "I am not a doctor, I do not have a PhD..."

[Duck on Wheels]

When I was out on maternity leave, 23 years ago, two colleagues were out doing field work on my project. One was a senior researcher, the other a recent hire. The recent hire was sent out to learn the field from the senior researcher. When they appeared together, everybody ignored the senior researcher and directed their questions and answers to the junior. They also constantly asked whether my senior colleague was a nurse and whether my junior colleague was a doctor. Now guess what their respective genders were. Not hard to guess, huh? Both were social scientists -- excellent ones, though neither has a doctorate. One just got hired into a tenured associate professorship at a Dept. of Community Medicine -- ahead of an M.D. and Dr. Med. with an impressive publication list and a long list of projects and grad students at that very department. Want to guess again which of my former colleagues got the job and what gender the medical and academic doctor was who got passed by? Easy guess again, huh?

Think maybe you don't share those prejudices, that you somehow out of all the many millions within our culture have managed to unlearn them? Try taking a test or two at
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/
It's fun, it's fast, it's anonymous and private, and you might learn something about yourself. I did. :o

[pooks]

When the paramedics got there, I started to give them a history, when one of them asked me "Are you a nurse?" I said no, I'm a doctor. After that, THEY STOPPED LISTENING TO ME. In fact, they completely ignored me and walked away to check out the patient on their own.

Do you think it's at all possible that when you said, "No," they tuned you out immediately and it didn't register that you went on to say you're a doctor? You know, they'd already dismissed you as "not a nurse" without ever considering that you might be another medical professional? (Just as insulting, actually, but it makes a little more sense than for them to totally disregard a doctor....)

Or am I giving them too much credit?

[Nanci]

Oooh, this made me think of an old joke, let's see if I can get it right:

A man and his son were in a serious car accident. The father was killed, but the son was rushed to the hospital with life-threatening injuries. When the son was wheeled into the OR, the surgeon proclaimed "I cannot operate on this boy- he is my son!" How could that be?

[Blueberry]

Sadly, this isn't just true in the medical field.

I'm an attorney. Most recently, I was attending a deposition in Asheville, NC and one of my male co-workers was taking the deposition. The court reporter assumed I was a paralegal or secretary. She was somewhat taken aback when I informed her that I was, in fact, an attorney for one of the parties.

Not at all uncommon - but sad.

[Triskeliongirl]

I am a scientist, and I remember being at a female colleague's home in Cambridge England on the day she published an important paper in the prestigous journal nature. She took a phone call from a press reporter, who immediately asked if her husband were at home so she turned the phone over to him, only to have him explain to the reporter that indeed it was his wife that he should be interviewing. But in actual fact, I don't feel that I have experienced very much gender bias in my career. Maybe I am lucky, but its never really been an issue for me. Another funny story though, I was once accused of gender bias in a grant review. The grant applicant, not knowing her grant was reviewed by a female, complained of gender bias when it was not funded, so despite the fact that we are both women, I had to be investigated. Gladly, it was determined that I was not biased against my own gender!

[Triskeliongirl]

ok ok I have to flip the coin here. BTW thanks Dr. Fuji for the props to the nurses :) I am a nurse and while I was working in a pre-op clinic I would enter the room "Hi are you Mr. Smith?" the cold snotty response would sometimes be "I'm DR Smith." OOOOkaaay hi Dr. SOB I mean Smith. (Only later to find out most of these doctors were Phd's or vets.) ....:

OK, I have to take offense at this. Why does someone with a Doctor of Philosophy or Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree any less deserving of the title Doctor than a Doctor of Medicine???? Why shouldn't people have a right to be addressed by whatever title makes them comfortable? Isn't the reason you addressed the person as Mr./Ms. Smith to show respect, so why be offended if they inform you that they prefer another title?

[Geonz]

I think 'cause in the context of being a nurse, and being told "no, I'm *doctor* X," as if "so you don't know anything I don't already know..."

The prof in my freshman year who was not a Ph.D. made *sure* everybody knew that he was proud to have gotten his position without the letters; that he had so many other things he'ddone that he could do that.

Ah, security :-)

[crazybikinchic]

I worked with a guy at one time that was so impressed with his RDH (registered dental hygienist) title, that he had it on his credit card. I anyone gave a rat's hind side. Then, there are the dentist that go to a restraunt and give there title as dr. Again! I'm considering Pharmacy school. I can't imagine being called Dr. even though I will have a doctorate degree (unless you make me mad, then you will call me Dr.):D

[Jen Jen]

I worked with a guy at one time that was so impressed with his RDH (registered dental hygienist) title, that he had it on his credit card. I anyone gave a rat's hind side. Then, there are the dentist that go to a restraunt and give there title as dr. Again! I'm considering Pharmacy school. I can't imagine being called Dr. even though I will have a doctorate degree (unless you make me mad, then you will call me Dr.):D

If I suffered through that much school, I'd train my pets to call me Dr, LOL!

When I had my master's ceremony, I was really disappointed. Those crazy caps I always saw professors wearing, I thought I'd get. Turns out they are for doctorate graduates, not master's. Too bad I'm all school-ed out! No crazy beanie thing for me!

[Lise]

I should make a flow chart of when I use the title "Dr." Sometimes it's to show respect, and sometimes the opposite. The older docs I'll always call "Dr." The ones my age or younger I'll call by their first name unless I'm trying to get their attention in some way, as in, "I really need your help right now" or "straighten up and fly right, doctor". In front of a patient, I'll usually say "Dr." I'll always refer to them as "doctor" when talking to a patient.

It's funny when I read a medical article published in anoher country, and the letters after their names mean nothing to me! I can put six sets of letters after my name if I want. But why? CNM is what tells you what I do. That's the national certification. I doubt you care what degrees I have or licenses the state gave me. And no, it's not on my credit cards or checks! :rolleyes:

[KnottedYet]

I can only put 3 sets of letters after my name. Must go to school MORE! (ha ha!) It does amaze me how the title thing can become such a huge deal. And unfortunately sometimes you have to play the title game just to survive. And, also unfortunately, I think women have to play the game harder.

Now, I think we gotta start giving titles to folks with Master's degrees. I want to be MASTER Knotted. (first I gotta get a Master's, but that's just a minor detail)

Yes, Master..... :D

(my ex played with the idea of using the title "Dr." socially. It's one thing to use it professionally, but socially ya better be in some sort of medicine for me to call you Dr.) (and yes, in my mind pharmacology counts. y'all are stud muffins for understanding all that biochemistry. I'll call ya Dr. and sweep your floor, too.)

[betagirl]

I'm surrounded by MD's, PhD's and PsyD's (doctors of psychology) on a daily basis. Depending on how well I know them, I either refer to them by their first name or Dr. so and so. Like my advisor and dissertation chair, she goes by first name now, but initially it was doctor. Professors I have for a class, Dr. I work for a physician for the research I do, he goes by his first name. Same for the PhD psychologist. But other doctors in the practice, they go by doctor so and so. I just don't know them well enough in my book to call them by their first name. I don't think any would be offended if I used their first name, for me it's just a matter of respect. It has nothing to do with MD, PhD, PsyD, etc. Technically they're all doctors. For whatever reason most people assume you have your MD when you go by "doctor so and so." Is that your fault if you have a different doctoral degree? In my opinion, no. When I have my doctorate (in 3 long years) I won't take offense if people call me by doctor or my first name. I won't go out of my way to address myself as "doctor" but I won't hide it or be ashamed of it either. I hear using it for restaurant reservations can get you a good table time though :p

By the way I have 2 masters degrees, so you can call me "master squared" around here :D

Or maybe that just makes me double the a-hole :eek:

[Nanci]

I've always called my dentists Dr. So and So. I think that's the correct title for them! What else are you going to call them, Mr. Dentist???

Same with vets.

[DebW]

Yeah, I get that too. I work in a bike shop. When I answer the phone, there are certain customers who immediately want to talk to one of the guys. Doesn't matter what the question is. Doesn't matter that I know more about riding and bikes and mechanics than half our staff. They insist on speaking with a guy.

Now, just to be a tool, I'll tell them that none of the guys are available but that I'm happy to help them.

Yeah, I used to get that too in 1973. As soon as they'd hear a woman's voice on the phone, they'd say "Can I talk to a mechanic." Happened several times every day. Guess things don't change as fast as we'd hope. I'd usually say "What do you need?" and answer all their questions. But sometimes I just couldn't take it anymore and would hand the phone to a guy.

[Bron]

Well where I work I think more than 50% of people have a PhD, so they came up with a solution to the title problem - nobody is allowed to use their title at work. No titles on doors, id cards, letters, anything. It's then up to us to use surnames or first names as we feel fit (my department is a first names and informal "you","tu","du" depending on the language we are using).

The only thing that annoys me about the title is when people call my husband "Dr" and me "Mrs". Either use it for both of us or neither. I hate being patronised just because I am a woman.

Bron

[KnottedYet]

As far as I'm concerned vets, dentists, psychologists, etc are all "Dr." And durn tootin' I'll use that when addressing them professionally and probably socially as well.

My beef with the ex was the social use. Yup, that PhD in physics is mighty impressive, but SKnot's friends and their parents really don't need to address ya as "Dr. Booger."

[Bad JuJu]

This whole thread just supports the idea that feminism is still an important and necessary movement. I teach college, and so many students think of feminism as a bad word and something that's no longer needed. They buy into the idea that we're in a "post-feminist" period. Well, we have "come a long way, baby," but we still have a long, long way to go before we can call patriarchy and masculinism a thing of the past.

[betagirl]

really don't need to address ya as "Dr. Booger."

That's going to be my official title when I'm done :D

Hmmm, what are the qualifications to get a "Doctor of Cycling" - CycD....

[Triskeliongirl]

I think this is an interesting thread. I personally don't care if folks call me by my first name or doctor, in fact I am most comfortable with my first name, but I had to react to that earlier post that only MDs deserved the title Dr. But, its also important to not overinterpret someone's reasons for correcting someone. For example, if someone wants to formally address me and calls me Mrs. L, I will correct them that it is Dr. L, not to be snooty, but because Mrs. L is my mother, not me. That is, I kept my maiden name, and Mrs. L implies that I am married to Mr. L which I am not, so either call me by my first name, or if you insist on formalisms, use the accurate formalism. Everyone who works for me in my lab, my grad. students, etc. call me by my first name, but med students call me Dr. L. since that is the covnention in the medical school courses (I run a research lab and teach medical students biochemistry). And I definitely correct people when they send an invitation to Dr. and Mrs. .........

[SadieKate]

I simply think use of the title "Dr" should be inconformance with the cultural setting. For example, an attorney also has a doctorate. It is customary to use the title in an academic setting but not in any other setting that I can think of. Matter of fact, in court the title is Ms, Mrs., Counsel or whatever, but not Dr.

In my corporation's culture where the MDs and all but one Ph.D do not use their title when introducing themselves, it is presumptious for this one and only Ph.D to use his. For heaven's sake, I know Ph.Ds who drive trucks for a living because they decided they liked the open road better. Can you imagine what would happen if they introduced themselves as Dr So and So?

If I meet someone in a casual setting, for instance at a bike club ride, it tells me a lot about a person if he or she introduces themselves as Dr. So and So rather than just a first and last name; the fact that they have earned a doctorate has no bearing on our mutual participation in cycling. If I met the same person in his or her professional capacity and the culture of that industry or business was to use the title, it is absolutely appropriate.

[Trek420]

from my big brothers website:

"Piano players are often refered to as "Doctor" or "Professor" a tradition dating back over 100 years to the role of piano player as parlour entertainer in the great mansions of Storyville, New Orleans legendary red light district."

But my bro has a Phd so he really is "Doctor", also sis and neice here on TE and many others in the family.

Just not me, humble art major.

Ya' know what really tics me off? Don't call me "Operator". I'm not an operator, neither was the service rep who ticked you off when you called yesterday.

Now, how can I help you?

Nothing wrong with being an operator but not everyone who answers the phone at "da phone co" is an operator.

There's repair administrators (when you call 611), DSL repair, all kinda folks.

What's the difference? Well, being an operator is a pretty good paying entry level telcom job, repair-more complex and higher paying, etc. Our jobs are not piece-work. I'm paid for what I know and what I *might need to know* to help you out today, and I make a good 25-30k *more* than they do.

[Aggie_Ama]

This goes back to the vet correcting someone on the first page. Seeing what my friend Johnny is studying in vet school, I put him on the same level with other MDs. I trust my vet as much as my own doctors. I think he deserves to be addressed as Dr. D___ as much as my family practice, dentist, neurologist.... The funny thing is my vet returned my call last week and referred to himself by his first name! My other vets always said "This is Dr. ___." It felt so informal, of course my furbabies do go visit him a lot maybe we are on a first name basis now.

I hated being in a college town and having PhDs getting snotty in public if you called them Mr. or Mrs. I worked retail and had to refer to the customer by name, how am I to know you have a PhD? A lot of MDs have it on the credit card, but not PhDs.

[pooks]

I know a woman who was interviewing for a job as an engineer, and was told to meet the interviewer in the company cafeteria at the door. She stood there looking around, waiting for someone to approach -- only to have a man walk up to her and hand her his tray as he was leaving.

Not only did it never occur to him that she was an engineer -- it also never occurred to him that an African American could be anything but a cafeteria worker.

[mtkitchn]

Gosh, this thread reminds me of so many personal stories....It would be funny to write a book about the idiot things people say! It's kind of funny to hear some of the comments while working in male dominated career fields (used to bother me but I just file those comments in the "stupid people bin"), but also sad that the presumptions still exist after all these years.

[Lise]

There's a group of docs who work one day at a clinic where I rarely see pts. One day I spotted a doc I hadn't met. I walked up, stuck out my hand, said, "Hello, I'm Lise H--, one of the midwives." She looked at me and said, "Dr. R---." Turned away. Never touched my hand.

ooooookay, DOCTOR. I've been put in my place! :rolleyes:

The patients loved me, the staff seems to like me, and this doc rolled right over the chance to have a friendly, collegial (if only I could spell that) relationship with me. To what end? That title will not be your friend when you've ticked off everybody else.

That said, I read a note in a patient's chart which one of the residents referred to me as L.H., RN. You'd best believe I cleared that up. "But I thought you were a nurse!" he said. "I am. A Certified Nurse-Midwife, Advanced Practice Nurse. Please refer to me as a CNM." Interesting.

[Nanci]

I deal with PAs (physician assistants) and whatever the NICU (neonatal intensive care unit) NPs (nurse practitioners) are all the time (they must have some formal title-). I really don't differentiate between them and the MDs, except I recognize that they have more time to talk and more info to give about the patient and they are excellent at returning pages promptly. That must be why for my personal care, and that of my child back when that was applicable, I always chose (choose) to see a nurse practitioner.

[Lise]

I deal with PAs (physician assistants) and whatever the NICU (neonatal intensive care unit) NPs (nurse practitioners) are all the time (they must have some formal title-). I really don't differentiate between them and the MDs, except I recognize that they have more time to talk and more info to give about the patient and they are excellent at returning pages promptly. That must be why for my personal care, and that of my child back when that was applicable, I always chose (choose) to see a nurse practitioner.
Bowing to you, Nanci. I believe that NICU NPs are called NNPs, Neonatal Nurse Practioners, vs. PNPs, Pediatric NPs, who care for older kids. We're all APNs (advance practice nurses).

[Trek420]

pooks "Not only did it never occur to him that she was an engineer -- it also never occurred to him that an African American could be anything but a cafeteria worker."

OMG, I know this kinda &^% happens but...did she confront him? :confused:

What a moron.

I don't think any womens work or job title gets respected till the hardest job we do is respected....that of being a Mom whether you work outside of the home or in.

Betcha didn't expect that from the rabid lefty unapolagetic feminist.

[Lise]

I don't think any womens work or job title gets respected till the hardest job we do is respected....that of being a Mom whether you work outside of the home or in.

Betcha didn't expect that from the rabid lefty unapolagetic feminist.
I second that emotion.

[Grog]

I don't think any womens work or job title gets respected till the hardest job we do is respected....that of being a Mom whether you work outside of the home or in.


Smartest thing I read today.

[Aggie_Ama]

That must be why for my personal care, and that of my child back when that was applicable, I always chose (choose) to see a nurse practitioner.

My first gyno was a nurse practitioner and she was amazing. I have had two gynos since that were actual MDs and they pale in comparison to the NP I had.

[KnottedYet]

I loved my NP. I was so sad when she left. She was GOOD.

[Pax]

Gosh, this thread reminds me of so many personal stories....It would be funny to write a book about the idiot things people say! It's kind of funny to hear some of the comments while working in male dominated career fields (used to bother me but I just file those comments in the "stupid people bin"), but also sad that the presumptions still exist after all these years.
Yup, when I was a firefighter (and sporting huge breasts) people would see me and say, WOW that guy is wearing earrings! :rolleyes: People see what they want/expect to see.

[Faust]

OK, I have to take offense at this. Why does someone with a Doctor of Philosophy or Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree any less deserving of the title Doctor than a Doctor of Medicine???? Why shouldn't people have a right to be addressed by whatever title makes them comfortable? Isn't the reason you addressed the person as Mr./Ms. Smith to show respect, so why be offended if they inform you that they prefer another title?


Please don't take offense. The thing is this. NOWHERE on any of our charts is the patient's title listed be it Doctor Phd King Revrend Rabi or whhatever..I am happy to use whatever title makes you happy even if you are being a snot. I have in fact had people tell me during the course of conversation that they were a doctor...and accordingly I let the next person know he is a Dr. It just seems tacky to make a big huge deal about something I had no way of knowing before they so rudely informed me.

[KnottedYet]

And please don't be offended by my point, which was that I thought it was inappropriate for my ex with a PhD in physics to want SKnot's friends and their parents to say "Dr. Booger" when everyone else is going by first names.

"Hi, I'm Sarah, I'm Jessie's mom."
"Hello. I'm Dr. Booger."

(sounds more like a conversation at a medical/vet/professor office than at a preschool picnic)

[KnottedYet]

oooh, one of my favorite silly jokes about academe just popped into my head!

BS - bull shyte
MS - more shyte
PhD - piled higher and deeper

One of my friends was talking about her "piled higher and deeper" degree, and I didn't know what she meant. She rattled off the above list, and it got stuck in my brain. Can't remember where I left my cell phone, but I still remember this critter...:D

Is there a BA-MA-PhD list?

All the new grads from the physical therapy program are now DPT, cuz it's a doctorate now. I see those initials and all I can think is "diptheria pertussis tetanus." (pediatric vaccine)

[Lise]

All the new grads from the physical therapy program are now DPT, cuz it's a doctorate now. I see those initials and all I can think is "diptheria pertussis tetanus." (pediatric vaccine)
I know! And "TD" is not just my favorite thread, it's "tetanus-diptheria" booster. :rolleyes:

It's kind of amazing to me that a doctorate is entry level practice now. The same is happening in midwifery. I am "grandmothered" in, so I don't "have" to get a doctorate to practice. I wouldn't mind more school, I enjoy learning, but I have yet to see how my getting a doctorate would improve my clinical practice. If I encounter a big pot of money, I might go get a PhD in anthropology, but, again, to what end, clinically?

[KnottedYet]

The program changes from PT to DPT were fairly minor. (and it's still not as intense or as long as the majority of PhD programs yet) It's all about the title and title inflation. These kids are paying through the nose for a title that helps them compete with chiropractors. With a loan payment of $600 a month for 30 YEARS for a student graduating last year, some of these kids will be just finishing paying their student loans as they join AARP.

Meanwhile the pay rate hasn't gone up hardly at all. The new grads are starting off in such a financial hole, it's so unfair to them. Meanwhile we're having a shortage of PT's. Until the pay rate goes up, not too many folks are going to want to go into such debt for a 3 year degree.

[farrellcollie]

And please don't be offended by my point, which was that I thought it was inappropriate for my ex with a PhD in physics to want SKnot's friends and their parents to say "Dr. Booger" when everyone else is going by first names.

"Hi, I'm Sarah, I'm Jessie's mom."
"Hello. I'm Dr. Booger."

(sounds more like a conversation at a medical/vet/professor office than at a preschool picnic)



I don't think it is appropriate even in medical/vet/prof office for a dr to come in and say "Hi Jane, I'm Dr. x" - when that happens to me (more in vet's office than human dr - I don't go to drs unless I have some major blood flowing out of me or some sort of hanging appendage that causes major pain). I usually say something about both being formal or both being on a first name basis - if dr can't handle it - I find another. I have no tolerance for drs (of any sort) who think they are god, are condescending, and who waste my time by regularly being late for appointments.

[Duck on Wheels]

I don't think it is appropriate even in medical/vet/prof office for a dr to come in and say "Hi Jane, I'm Dr. x" ... I usually say something about both being formal or both being on a first name basis ...

Hmmm. So why did it feel like kidding when my GI doc in Madison always addressed me as Professor? I guess cuz he always did it with kind of vocal "wink". Still, I agree, it was better than him using my first name and me his title.