Ullrich out of TdF!!!!

[tattiefritter]

Jan has been suspended by T-Mobile and is no longer in the Tour due to links with the Spanish doping scandal:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/5132320.stm

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news2


Apparently Basso's name is on the same list.


Gutting, :mad:

[margo49]

I'm gutted too!

Oh shee-yit... I can hardly *breathe*

[Aggie_Ama]

I was really hoping it was just speculation with Jan. :mad: And Basso? I nearly fell out of my chair at work yesterday reading that. Brunyeal's take on the scandal in cycling news (same article tattie posted) was quite interesting. When this is the only story making the headlines in the US about the Tour, it is a sad day.

[tattiefritter]

Well that's it, it was shaping up to be a great tour now it looks like no-one interesting is going to ride. :eek: :mad:

More news on cyclingnews.com

[margo49]

Yeah, I just saw that too when I was looking up the links

Anyway, what is the story here?
Everything is chemistry; food is chemistry, vitamins and electrolytes are chemistry, energy drinks are surely chemistry, steroids and blood work are chemistry.
Will there be virginity tests next???

[Nanci]

Well, there goes my line up...

Nanci

[Nanci]

But Ivan hasn't been suspended yet, has he? There is still hope.

NAnci

[cusepack]

Nanci -

Ivan is now out as well.

This is just incredible.

Here's the latest story . . .

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news3

[traveller_62]

This is really sad.

If the allegations against these athletes are true it is tragic. If they aren't true it is more than tragic.

Hope Levi stays out of the fray.

-traveller

[Squirrel 2]

I almost cried about this. There is a video on www.lefigaro.fr showing Der Jan speaking to reporters before riding away on his bike. It is hard to tell because the camera is off to the side, but he looks like he is crying, too. Funny, I was thinking about this last night when I went to bed. I felt like I was the only person in the world who didn't think Basso or Ullrich were going to end up on the podium because I didn't think they would be allowed to start. Looks like maybe a quarter of the TDF start list won't be allowed to ride now. Too bad about Vino....he is not on the list, but with 8 of his team being on the list, he can't ride! His Astana-Wurth Team is out again...

Just goes to show you that Floyd Landis is right -- you take all the guys in cycling & put them together & you cannot come up with nine smart, strong guys. What you have a lot of is strong & stupid!!!

[jeannierides]

This is indeed sad... for those who are affected by the cheaters.... and for the sport of cycling...

We still have Landis and Hincapie... Zabriskie may step up since Basso's out...

[Nanci]

Don't forget Acevedo!! He was already on my list _before_ anyone dropped out.

[margo49]

Oh, no he *is* crying - all that time and training down the gurgler...

I can't concentrate on anything - keep coming back to see updates

[Kalidurga]

Just goes to show you that Floyd Landis is right -- you take all the guys in cycling & put them together & you cannot come up with nine smart, strong guys. What you have a lot of is strong & stupid!!!

More and more, this seems to be the case in all sports and it really is sad. It's the way of things these days: Bigger, faster, better at all costs, and do anything to get that way. For men to do this in sports really correlates with the stupid things women do to their bodies because they've been convinced that they have to live up to an unrealistic ideal of beauty. If it's not fake boobs and nose jobs, it's blood-doping and steroids. It's become a very scary world to live in when that's everywhere around us.

I'd love to know that my favorite bike racers (and baseball players, etc) are amazing purely for their own natural talent, strength and hard work, but now it's hard to not look at them and wonder. If Floyd wins this year and no scandal touches him, I'd love to see more riders begin fueling themselves with In-N-Out burgers instead of EPO.

[jeannierides]

Well, here's the thing, ladies... I'm really disappointed too, but we all have to realize that IF these guys were involved, it's cheating... and they all knew it was cheating...:(

And, yes, Nanci...we can't forget Acevedo! :)

[Nanci]

Yeah, I definitely don't feel bad for people who cheat. They knew the rules.

Nanci

[Tater]

I agree with Nanci, they do know the rules and what happens when those rules are broken. But what a downer to those who follow them!

[jeannierides]

Yeah, this whole thing definitely puts a negative *spin* on the sport. I think Landis may have a point...

[maillotpois]

Shocked. Sad.

So, Susan, Can we get a "do over" of our TdF predictions? :rolleyes:

[Aggie_Ama]

My favorite is Hincapie and I have been telling my DH all along I would like to see him on the podium. I think he could have gotten there with Basso and Ullrich, but I wanted to see him really fight for it. At the rate this is going it might be an all American podium.

I agree, the cheaters knew they were cheating and now they must live with the choice (if true). It just stinks when you cheered for someone and now they might be a cheater. I really like Jan and Ivan, I would like to hear its not true.

[Lifesgreat]

Is today April 1st????? Oh my goodness! :eek: I am SO bummed these guys are out of the TDF!! I have a question for you who may have more info than I do, how strong is the evidence against these riders? Is it info "leaked" to a paper, or is there stronger evidence than that? If they were cheating, strong punishments are in order.

[jeannierides]

It seems that they were at the very least *linked* to the Liberty sting...Basso's name appeared on a list of *clients*. Here's what was said about Ulrich...

"Although it hasn't yet been established that Ullrich and Sevilla doped, it has been proven that they had contact with the doctor, which they lied about to T-Mobile."

Unfortunately, it's one of those... "If it walks like a duck..."

And it's not over...

[slinkedog]

How totally shocking! I couldn't believe it when I read the headline on my Yahoo page!!

It is a sad day for our sport. This just makes it easier to believe, in my mind, that everyone in cycling is doping.

I hope Hincapie, Landis and Levi do well.

[Jo-n-NY]

Me too "SHOCKED"....Although I considered Hancapie a slight underdog in this, I truely would have been so happy if he won, I just really like the guy. But if Jan won, I would have felt ok also only because I felt bad and figured this would have been his last chance. I am so truely shocked that Basso was in this line up also. What a mush mash of feelings.

Well, there we have it and now I do not consider George an underdog. He just may win it.

"I hope Hincapie, Landis and Levi do well." quote from Slinkdog

I agree and winning in that order won't be so bad either.

~JoAnn

[SadieKate]

Macebo and Beloki on the list also? It will be curious to see how far this goes to finally get the powers that be to make some effective changes.

[slinkedog]

Macebo and Beloki on the list also? It will be curious to see how far this goes to finally get the powers that be to make some effective changes.

Agreed. I want to see cycling cleaned up. With all the Barry Bonds stuff, it's becoming apparent that ALL sports need to be overhauled when it comes to doping.

[KSH]

You know, I just wonder how ALL these guys make a conscious decision to go and get doped up... right before the race... when they know they are going to get tested.

Doesn't it just seem like a no-brainer to not dope up?

Which makes me think that maybe something that isn't dope is showing up as such in their blood (haven't they made mistakes like that before with blood testing?)... things just aren't adding up. ALL of these cyclists who worked for YEARS for the TdeF can't be THIS STUPID. Right?

Didn't they accuse Lance of doping... year after year? Gosh, they were still harping on that up until a few months ago.

Something isn't adding up ... and after they way they accused Lance on a regular basis, I don't really trust the agency who does this testing.

But, I am sure I don't have all the facts here.

[massbikebabe]

I just find it tremendously interesting that they wait until THE day before the start to implicate these guys. Are they cheating??? We will never know the whole truth, but if they are it sure does pi$$ me off because I am out there slugging away trying to be a rider with nothing more than asprin, vitamins, and anti-seizure meds. in my body.:mad:




karen

[wannaduacentury]

I'm rooting for Landis and Hincapie. This is just amazing that Basso and Ullrich are out. I'm sure we'll hear more b/f the day is out. No telling what will be next.

[Grog]

Cycling is a brutal sport. It wrecks out its riders, their health, mental and physical.

Cyclists would kill to be at the Tour de France.

They will also take performance-enhancing drugs and try the weirdest performance-enhancing techniques, like blood transfusion of their own oxygen-maxed blood.

How else would they survive this grueling race, and ride at the speed they ride?

It may actually be a good day for cycling. A serious wake-up call to riders and their coaches and supporting teams. The sport might become less spectacular but cleaner, and healthier for the athletes.

It might be a more exciting year for the TdF with lesser known cyclists taking the lead. Not as good for TV contracts though, but if it has to go through this to revive in a couple years, so be it.

[slinkedog]

You know, I just wonder how ALL these guys make a conscious decision to go and get doped up... right before the race... when they know they are going to get tested.

Doesn't it just seem like a no-brainer to not dope up?



This whole thing has been brewing since the end of May... these guys were implicated when a Spanish doctor was arrested and his files were raided (I think that's how it went down.) Apparently he has files on all the ousted riders. Tyler Hamilton has also been implicated.

[Eden]

I find it rather sad that there is a guilty until proven otherwise and then under suspicion for the rest of your career attitude about the whole thing.

The evidence that these guys were cheating seems pretty thin to me - how hard would it be to fabricate those documents? and the list of cheaters released seem tailored made for maxium sesationalism. They (the media) are doing more to convince me that the riders are exposed to a witch hunt at all times than they are convincing me that there is mass cheating going on. These guys are exposed to more drug testing than anyone else I can think of - especially if they win. Every time they finish in the top 10 (? I think it may be more than just the top 10) they get tested. Sometimes they wake them in the middle of the night and drag them out to get tested. They call their homes in the off season - come and get tested!! If all of the top guys were cheating they would catch more of them.

I guess I need to read up a bit more, but I'm not ready to condemn all of those guys just yet. I really wish the directors had the guts to stand up and say that they trust their men and they are not going to voluntarily pull them out without more concrete evidence.

[Susan Otcenas]

Well, I'm completely floored by this news. I remember the Festina scandal in 1998 and what a bad light that cast on the sport. One would have thought that after that, cycling would have made a serious effort to clean itself up, but here we are, 8 years later, with yet another doping scandal.

On the bright side, cheating is cheating, and I don't want to watch an event full of cheaters. I want to watch an event full of clean riders, who have trained their bodies and minds to achieve greatness, without having to cheat.

Yes, this is terrible, but what other sport is attacking doping head on? Barry Bonds is still playing baseball - if he were a cyclist he'd be long gone. Yes, people cheat, but we should be proud to be involved ina sport that actually has serious consequences for the cheaters who get caught.



So, Susan, Can we get a "do over" of our TdF predictions? :rolleyes:


Yes. We've modified our contest page to allow anyone who entered prior to 8:40 a.m. PST to enter one more time.


Susan

[cusepack]

As I mentioned in another thread, one of my friends is in France for the Tour. He's been sending me updates, and says it's total chaos over there, and it's not over yet - as far as others being suspended. He's disappointed as he's a Jan fan, but he said, and I agree, that the race is wide open now.

I'll keep you posted:)

[Fredwina]

Yes. We've modified our contest page to allow anyone who entered prior to 8:40 a.m. PST to enter one more time.
Susan
Thank you! I was waiting just to make sure. I thought something like this was brewing....

[Lenusik]

All this is rather bad for the sport and fans. The Tour will be weak this year because of this story. I am glad that they caught them but I am sad that we will not see any drama this year. I doubt it.

[velogirl]

Cheating is cheating.....that's the bottom line. And in the case of some riders, lying is lying.

If doping increases the performance of one rider 30-40%, other riders are forced to do the same just to compete at the same level.

Don't blame the media for doing their jobs. With the lack of top names at the Tour, they need to create news somehow and this is definitely news. Of course the timing is interesting. I'm sure there are insiders being paid for releasing this information at just the right moment to make an impact.

Cycling isn't a clean sport (at many levels, not just the pros). Even though doping is accepted in other mainstream American sports (like baseball), that doesn't mean it should be accepted in cycling.

We can put our heads in the sand and pretend that the top pros are clean, but the reality is that the sport is riddled with dopers.

[Eden]

Cheating is cheating.....that's the bottom line. And in the case of some riders, lying is lying.

If doping increases the performance of one rider 30-40%, other riders are forced to do the same just to compete at the same level.

Don't blame the media for doing their jobs. With the lack of top names at the Tour, they need to create news somehow and this is definitely news. Of course the timing is interesting. I'm sure there are insiders being paid for releasing this information at just the right moment to make an impact.

Cycling isn't a clean sport (at many levels, not just the pros). Even though doping is accepted in other mainstream American sports (like baseball), that doesn't mean it should be accepted in cycling.

We can put our heads in the sand and pretend that the top pros are clean, but the reality is that the sport is riddled with dopers.

But why accept what the media says without question? I am sure that there are cheaters and dopers in cycling, but I am also sure that the media isn't completely clean either. Reporters are just as capable of fabrications as cyclists. I would just like to see more evidence of cheating than records from a doctors office that are "in code" that a paper has supposedly broken. The timing is appaling - just a few days before the race, with no time for any of the riders implicated to defend themselves!

[velogirl]

But why accept what the media says without question? I am sure that there are cheaters and dopers in cycling, but I am also sure that the media isn't completely clean either. Reporters are just as capable of fabrications as cyclists. I would just like to see more evidence of cheating than records from a doctors office that are "in code" that a paper has supposedly broken. The timing is appaling - just a few days before the race, with no time for any of the riders implicated to defend themselves!

I accept what the media says because the sport isn't clean. It was only a matter of time before something like this blew. The same thing happened in 1998 and I'm sure it will happen again in the next decade.

There is doping at all levels of the sport. Eden, you race in the Seattle area, right? I bet if you look around, you'll find athletes on the juice right in your local races. If a masters athlete dopes, how can you think that the pros don't?

I think we'll find that the riders won't even try to defend themselves. They'll just slink away quietly and retire from the sport.

ps -- the media isn't competing -- doesn't matter if they're "clean." They're doing their job (reporting news, not creating it). Without Lance, this creates a big news story and frenzy around the tour. You can't blame them for doing their job. The timing was very intentional.

[Squirrel 2]

I do not accept media stories brought out by individuals making wild accusations. This is hardly like that. The charges come from the Spanish police, who have made arrests and are building their case to expand the charges. The information was given to the press by the attorney for the prosecution. The evidence included bags of blood seized, that were compared with blood samples from the accused riders from previous tour samples. There were also medical files & the accounts receivable records seized, which included payments due from riders in the tens of thousands of euros for "services rendered". The teams were presented with the evidence & felt it was strong enough for them to dismiss the riders. As much time & effort as the teams have invested in these guys, they would not do that unless they had to.

Yes, they test the riders all the time, mostly they use urine tests, which are cheap & easy. They do random blood tests, but not as many, because blood tests are expensive. Also, the dopers use masking agents. Tyler Hamilton was supposed to be taking women's hormones as part of the prescribed regimen because they mask the presence of the other stuff.

Floyd Landis just went way up in my estime. I think he's clean, & he doesn't take this racing business too seriously. Look what happens to those who want to win at any cost!

So we have to revise our podium picks -- good chances for Hincapie, Cadel Evans, & Floyd!

[jeannierides]

Well, here are what the bookies are saying the possibilities are...


* Alejandro Valverde (ILL) -7/2
* Alexandre Vinokourov (Wur) -7/2
* Levi Leipheimer (Ger) -7/1
* Floyd Landis (Pho) -7/1
* Cadel Evans (Dav) -10/1
* Yaroslav Popovych (Dis) -12/1
* Paolo Savoldelli (Dis) -20/1
* Andreas Kloden (T-M) -20/1
* Michael Rasmussen (Rab) -25/1
* Denis Menchov (Rab) -25/1
* George Hincapie (Dis) -25/1
* Iban Mayo (Eus) -25/1
* Jose Azevedo (Dis) -25/1
* Christophe Moreau (Ag2) -33/1

I'm afraid that Vino may not have a chance to see because his whole team may end up ousted... there are 58 riders implicated so far...

[maillotpois]

Yes. We've modified our contest page to allow anyone who entered prior to 8:40 a.m. PST to enter one more time.

Susan


Excellent. Thanks! Now I just have to re-group and figure out who's going to win!!

[mtbdarby]

Velogirl,
Heres an example of how the media can tweak their reports. I was interviewed for the GRABAAWR tour. I very clearly told the reporter that I had a sprained wrist. The article stated I had a broken wrist. I was really disappointed in the inaccuracy, but I guess it sounded better, huh? Don't believe everything you read....I'm sure some of the riders are doping - I don't think anyone disputes that. I also think the media bears the resposibility to publish proof of their accusations. Just my $.02 worth.

[Trekhawk]

Quick question for all your TDF cycling gurus. Does the suspension of all these riders especially the top guys throw the still competing teams ride strategy into confusion?
Do they start hastily making a new strategy??

[Eden]

Look - I'm not so naive as to think that the whole pro peleton is clean. I just think that pulling so many people without concrete evidence of wrong doing is not the way to go. Paper work (in code none the less) alone is not enough to convince me. As far as I've heard the blood samples from the Spanish bust have not been identified as of yet. When / if that happens I'll be happy to call it concrete evidence and condem the riders who cheated.

from VeloNews
..the riders listed have not been found guilty of breaking the UCI ProTour's ethical code; there only suspicions. And on the other, their clean reputations have been brought into disrepute in the biggest media circus of the year.

As Basso's team manager Bjarne Riis told the press Friday afternoon, "We need proof. We have to be careful saying things that are not 100-percent sure. The investigation is going on, but how can I say he's lied to me when I cannot prove it. It's pretty normal that I have to support my riders."

If you are so sure that all of these guys aren't clean - why believe that anyone is? Their doc's just haven't been busted yet!

Innocent until proven guilty!

[Deanna]

Quick question for all your TDF cycling gurus. Does the suspension of all these riders especially the top guys throw the still competing teams ride strategy into confusion?
Do they start hastily making a new strategy??


You bet it does! I was very surprised to read this:

"We then had a meeting with the AIGCP. During that meeting it was decided that the race's ethical code will be applied to the letter and that none of the riders suspended will be allowed to be replaced. The sporting directors of each team will now contact the riders concerned."

Some teams will be starting short of riders, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a team needs a certain number of riders to complete the whole tour to be listed in the ranks.

I'm glad I waited to fill out my TdF contest entry, as I was leaning towards Jan.

[chickwhorips]

the first thing that my bf said to me this morning was about this.... i thought he was joking because i was rooting for these guys. nope, its true. wow.

its to bad this happened. its really bad that they do it and think they could possibly get away with it. (if its true)
the media does hype stuff up, specially bad stuff, but hopefully its not as bad as it seems. i guess all we do is wait and see what comes out of it. i hate it when media gets involved in the bad stuff, and doesn't show the good side. all you ever hear, it seems like, in the media is cycling = bad.


going to be a good race still, with or without these guys.

[slinkedog]

I believe a team has to have at least 6 riders on the course at all times. Like in the TTT it's very important to make sure that not too many guys get dropped/crash.

I think Vino's team, which had been slated to be pulled earlier in the week, but was reinstated, will ultimately be pulled because too many of their riders are suspended.

[Pyannyplayer]

Personally, I'm disappointed and shocked - in the riders (if guilty), the so called "doctors" (who should have known better), and in the media (what a circus it's become!). Why wait until NOW?

I guess that I'm just naive enough to think that all athletes are clean and do these things by virtue of training, mental and physical. I also know that the TdF is CUT-THROAT and anyone will say anything in order to "even things out". I read recently that Lance was asked if there was someone behind all the accusations aimed at him, he replied yes, but wouldn't name who. Just what we need - a soap opera, act II.

I'll still follow the race and I'm hoping that Landis shines. I also hope that the named riders are found innocent and that maybe these accusations can stop and we can all get back to business: bicycling.

Lorie

[slinkedog]

I'll still follow the race and I'm hoping that Landis shines. I also hope that the named riders are found innocent and that maybe these accusations can stop and we can all get back to business: bicycling.

Lorie

I'm totally with you on this one!! :)

[Deanna]

Though it's very disappointing, I think it could make for a VERY exciting race. With some of the favorites out some of the lesser known riders will get some press. As my DH just said, the tour is now wide open.

[caligurl]

Innocent until proven guilty!

absolutely!

[Geonz]

Yup... and reporters and newspapers **are** competing.
And if it's cutthroat enough for people to be doping, then it's cutthroat enough for people to be setting up other people to get put out of the race, planting names, etc. (However, I have to figure it's more in keeping with the competitive nature of humans to want to enhance their own performance in any way possible - that would be an easier slippery slope to land on.)
I dunno. It's a bummer.

[d-biker]

I'M SICK!
Jan and Ivan...my favorites and my bicycling heroes.
I have to tell you a story. I'm work in a lab at a hospital so I can see the RBC/MCV counts on patients. When I began hiking into my mountains at 48 yrs. my RBC count was typical female normal levels....about 4.2 million and my MCV was around 84. After one year of aerobic excercise in the mountains at elevations of 5500 to 7500, and I must say, this was 3-5 hours of hiking for the purpose of staying aerobic with jogging down the trails always....my labs changed WITH NO EPO! My RBC count went over 5.4 million and my body compensated by making smaller RBC's bringing down my MCV to 75 which is more microcytic. What I'm saying is that in order for my body to handle the thinner oxygen and still oxygenate my body, it made more RBC's to give me more oxygen-carrying hemogloben surface area. My HGB was as high as 15.9 which is high for females. I have questioned how they test these athletes...what a nightmare for the drug-free victims!

I was so looking forward to the Tour de France. Having Lance gone now really opens up the field to let other top cyclists shine. What a shame some will lose their chance. I say they are innocent! Jan is a seasoned athlete...he would never do this! That's where I stand in my little naive world.

[bikerchick68]

this really blows. :mad:

I don't get it why Riis would suspend Basso if he isn't sure the allegation is true?? The BBC news one says: "CSC manager Bjarne Riis, who decided to suspend Basso from the team, said: "It is difficult for us to believe what is happening. "He accepted my decision. He was very sad. He wanted to do well on the Tour. "It's a huge blow for everybody."

Anyway, I just was talking to my brother (bigkahunadad)... I was saying that it will be interesting now to see who ends up on the podium. He said it's sad, because whoever wins will always have that "well, if Ullrich and Basso had been there..." following them... sorta like Jan winning the year Lance wasn't there... it just blows no matter how I look at it.

Hincapie and Landis have been my ponies of choice... Landis lives close to me here in SoCal... gotta root for the local guy... BUT, I didn't want it to be deemed a "by default" win for ANY of them... sad.

[RoadRaven]

I'm with Eden... innnocent until proven guilty... it is undoubtable that at least some of the elite pro-cyclists are cheating (heck, some of the top cyclists in local clubs here are known to cheat at local competitions).

So why not postpone the whole tour instead and get EVERYONE tested methodically!

Public stripping of anything won/achieved would be alot more humiliating...

I'm gutted for Ulrich... incredibly disappointed if its true... this was finally a year he could try and shine... his last chance

[Grog]

I don't get it why Riis would suspend Basso if he isn't sure the allegation is true?? The BBC news one says: "CSC manager Bjarne Riis, who decided to suspend Basso from the team, said: "It is difficult for us to believe what is happening. "He accepted my decision. He was very sad. He wanted to do well on the Tour. "It's a huge blow for everybody."


None of the sponsors want to be stuck with the racers if they are found guilty. Not very good for their image.

Besides, I don't intend to be cynical, but once all the names have fallen it will be interesting to see which teams don't have riders involved. And then, along the line of Geonz's "it's cutthroat enough for people to be setting up other people to get put out of the race, planting names, etc.", well,... make your own conclusions. That won't mean that the other teams are not doping or getting transfusions, unfortunately.

I can't clearly see whether it's the teams (sponsors, coaches, doctors, pharmacists, etc.) or the cyclists that should be charged. I tend to lean toward the teams, who of course know what's going on and somewhat encourage it. But at the same time, knowing individual cyclists, I can imagine how they can get totally irrational about performance and being on top of things... how they would do anything (including seriously harming themselves, as the death of a few pro cyclists of the past years have proven) to get and stay on a pro team.

And, by the way, the criminal legal system is different in many (if not most) countries than what it is in the USA ("innocent until proven guilty"). I am not sure about Spain but I know that in France for example the procedure is more akin to: "once you have accusations set against you, you have to convince the judge of your innocence". The judges also have a different way of exercing their powers. That's important to understand (I unfortunately don't have the keys to this).

[Eden]

So why not postpone the whole tour instead and get EVERYONE tested methodically!

Public stripping of anything won/achieved would be alot more humiliating...


Here! Here! I totally agree.

[snapdragen]

That's where I stand in my little naive world.

Hi neighbor - I live in that world too. I choose to believe these guys are innocent until they are proved, without a doubt, to be guilty.

If CSC had not suspended Basso on their own, he would have been followed the whole tour by the "possible doper" shadow. As it is, this thing is going to shadow Le Tour and all cyclists. Let's hope this causes change for the better in the future.

[jeannierides]

Well, I guess we can take Vinokourov off our lists as well, Astaná-Würth will not take part in the Tour. :( This is the guy I feel really sorry for.

[Lifesgreat]

Hi neighbor - I live in that world too. I choose to believe these guys are innocent until they are proved, without a doubt, to be guilty.



Howdy neighbors! I am glad I live in a good neighborhood. ;)

[emily_in_nc]

"I hope Hincapie, Landis and Levi do well." quote from Slinkdog
I agree and winning in that order won't be so bad either.
~JoAnn

That's my new order. I'm a huge Hincapie fan, but I didn't want him to win it because of lack of competition. I like Zabriskie too.

I am so saddened about what has happened. Like everyone else, I wanted all the top competitors to duke it out without Lance. If the riders expelled are indeed guilty, of course they don't deserve to ride, but it pisses me off something awful that they screwed up the tour for the many fans and viewers. Shame on them!

Emily

[KnottedYet]

E-in-NC : I just love your avatar picture, not trying to hijack the thread. Makes me want to go ride wherever that pic was taken.

Meanwhile, TdF, my boss was utterly freaked and spent some time on the computer at work reading up on it. I knew about it (and got to sound like a member of the cycling world) only because I read it HERE early this morning!

TE - your source for breaking world news.

[emily_in_nc]

E-in-NC : I just love your avatar picture, not trying to hijack the thread. Makes me want to go ride wherever that pic was taken.


Wow, thanks KY! My husband took the pic on my first-ever MTB ride right on our own 11 acres; he put in 1 mile of single track last year. It's not long, but it's nice to be able to ride off-road right out of your garage!

Sorry for the thread hijack...back to your regularly scheduled TdF talk.

The 9pm (eastern) OLN "Tour Preview" show should be very interesting indeed!

Emily

[spazzdog]

I'm not shocked but rather appalled at the length of the list of riders implicated. I can't wait to see the athletes from "other sports" who made the list...

As to the Tour, I think they should cancel it. I know that may seem rash, but maybe it's time to start punishing the group for the actions of the... well I was going to say the minority but at this point 22 or more riders have been ousted, so maybe it's gonna end up the majority.

My point is this, in some military units when a couple of folks screw up the whole unit gets slammed... at that point the screw ups get straightened out real quick. So cancel the Tour ... cancel the entire UCI Pro season. Give these boys some time to think about just how much they love the sport.

I'm disgusted with the whole batch of them... guilt, innocent, whatever. Every rider out there probably knew another rider that was doping and no one came forward. If it takes "implication" to shake this up, it's fine with me.

spazz, a TDF-aholic but considering a new sport (do they dope in curling?)

[janetsplanet]

It is my understanding that the decision to suspend the members of the team were the managers of the team themselves. OLN said that the team managers made this decision. I really think that on that alone the tour should go on and may the best man win..i agree that this should be a interesting race.

[spazzdog]

It is a good decision, but...

I'm sure there are others on someone else's 'list' that are doping and saying Yippee! Didn't catch me!

That's why I said cancel it. The cloud of doping so enshrouds this Tour and Pro Cycling in general that I think it might take truly drastic action to shake these folks up.

However, my tv is on as I sit wondering who of the remaining 177 riders (of original 198) will come out of this on top.

spazz

[alpinerabbit]

I'm sure there are others on someone else's 'list' that are doping and saying Yippee! Didn't catch me!
....
spazz, a TDF-aholic but considering a new sport (do they dope in curling?)

I'm sure they do, think beta blockers to calm you down.
A guy on a german forum says they start doping in cycling during the teenage years, among amateurs, it's not only the pros. It's everywhere and do not think those not on that "list" never took a thing.