Tell me the truth about pain

[WrensMom]

Is it inevitable? Or are there any of you out there that truthfully do not experience any pain (crotch) when riding?

Here's my story:
Back several years ago, I was wrestling with the decision to buy either a new regular bicycle (like possibly a Terry) or a recumbent, because I was in constant pain with my current ride, despite trying a variety of saddles. I ended up buying the recumbent, because I just wasn't convinced that a regular bike could be comfortable, and if I was going to spend the cash, I wanted it to work for me. I do love my recumbent, but I still feel that there are times when a conventional bicycle would be preferable, for some reasons (visibility, manuverability). I am thinking that I would like to have a conventional bike for commuting and riding around in the city, and keep the recumbent for touring. Also, I have been off all bikes for several years now (for no really good reason, and several silly reasons) and am getting back into it now.

So, is it a matter of trying more saddles? (there is always another one):confused: I did an online fit kit type thing at wrenchscience.com, and it told me that the conventional bike I have is not bad. I just want to know if my expectations are too high, and if I need to learn to accept ouchiness "down there" as part of the deal.

[DeniseGoldberg]

Is it inevitable? ... I just want to know if my expectations are too high, and if I need to learn to accept ouchiness "down there" as part of the deal.
No your expectations are not too high!
It's a combination of the right saddle and the right saddle placement. Unfortunately - as you already know - the right saddle for me may not be the right saddle for you. Have you looked at any of the discussions in the Favorite Saddles topic (scroll down, it may not be showing when you enter the forums)? There is quite a bit of good information (and experiences) there.

--- Denise

[Bad JuJu]

No! Riding your bike should not be a painful experience. In fact, if you're going to tour, you need to be able to be comfy in the saddle for miles and miles.

Do you have an LBS you trust? Some of them will let you "borrow" a saddle and exchange it if it doesn't work for you. Also, talk to someone there about your bike fit--ask if they'll put your bike on a trainer and check your position. Then you can talk with them about changing components to fine-tune: handlebars, stem, saddle, offset seatpost, pedals, etc. I like the wrenchscience.com site too, but it's no substitute for discussing your bike fit with someone face-to-face.

Hey, get back on your bike and have fun! :D

[mimitabby]

Is it inevitable? Or are there any of you out there that truthfully do not experience any pain (crotch) when riding?


So, is it a matter of trying more saddles? (there is always another one):confused: I did an online fit kit type thing at wrenchscience.com, and it told me that the conventional bike I have is not bad. I just want to know if my expectations are too high, and if I need to learn to accept ouchiness "down there" as part of the deal.


I can't imagine what an online fit kit can do to show you that your saddle is at fault!
However, go to Wallbike.com and check out their brooks pages. Just read what the other riders are saying about their experiences with their saddles. Wallbike has a 6 months return policy.. And they are friendly too.

[WrensMom]

Thank you for your responses:) ! I was reading some more stuff about bicycle fit and pain, and it does seem to indicate that the saddle is the most likely culprit. I was reading some stuff about measuring the distance between the sit bones, and choosing a saddle which is wide enough to support them appropriately. Based on how it feels when I ride with my current setup, my guess is that my saddle is too narrow, thus not supporting my sit bones at all, so I end up riding on my pubic bone--ouch:eek: !

Mimitabby--sorry, I didn't mean that the online fit kit had anything to say about saddles--I just meant that according to it, the rest of the geometry looks pretty ok. That Wallbike outfit sounds cool--can't argue much with a 6 month return policy:D

I am heading off to read in the Favorite Saddles part of the board now.

Thanks again, I really love these boards already. So many helpful and friendly female bikers:cool:

[Nanci]

My advice is don't buy a big squooshy poofy saddle, or a big gel seat cover. Anything you sink into, while maybe more comfie at first glance, will put pressure on your girlie bits.

Nanci

[mimitabby]

My advice is don't buy a big squooshy poofy saddle, or a big gel seat cover. Anything you sink into, while maybe more comfie at first glance, will put pressure on your girlie bits.

Nanci

I agree with Nanci.

Whereever you are sitting right now, do you notice your crotch hurting? if not
it's probably because the chair; soft or hard is supporting your sitting bones, which keeps your delicate parts UP OFF the chair.
m

[li10up]

How long did you ride before deciding to switch to a bent? IMO you should expect to hurt a bit when first starting to ride. But after about 4 rides it shouldn't really bother you anymore. After that if you are still having pain then something is definately wrong! But pain at first is normal while your body adjusts to sitting on a saddle. I read somewhere - I think it was Bicycling magazine that many times when women start out they are sore, think it is the saddles fault and by a bigger saddle. They said that the wider saddle can be the cause of the problem. Sometimes a wider saddle is needed but sometimes a period of adjustment is all that is needed.

[Kano]

:D :D OOOH! OOOH! What Nanci and Mimitabby said!:D :D

I'm new too, Wren, and had pain questions of my own the other day. My new bike (a "comfort bike," which in many ways IS very comfortable and is going a long way toward getting me hooked!) came with a big squooshy "seat," and it sure didn't take long for me to decide that was a horrible thing! It won't necessarily be girlie bits and sit bones hurting from a big squooshy -- at least in my experience!:eek: My next saddle was on my old bike, had a fairly significant amount of padding, but still lots less squooshy than the original. When I finally put it on this bike RIGHT, I discovered that it hurt the girlie bits, and wondered how I could have been content with it last year. :p (yup, I'm going to graduate from that hard knocks school someday!)

Right now, Wren, I'm trying a Specialized Dolce saddle. MUCH firmer and flatter than either of the two I've had on the bike so far, but I can tell it's a definite improvement, even if at some point I decide it's not quite right. I've got to admit, this is a bit of a surprise!

(I think it makes my bike go faster too! Maybe Earl SHOULD keep his big squooshy;) , so I can keep up with him!:) )

Karen in Boise

[Denise223]

I DEFINITELY need to try out some saddles, because after 10 miles I'm really feeling like the nose of my saddle is putting severe pressure on my crotch....

As I'm riding, in my head, I'm thinking...'I feel as if I'm sitting on the snout of a bottlenose dolphin' <<-- I love dolphins.........but, I don't need to have that feeling.

I know there are several threads on "saddles", and there are so many saddles out there that it gets quite overwhelming.

I will go visit my lbs and try out some saddles. What came with my Gary Fisher Nirvana is an "Oasis" saddle -- and, it does have a prominent nose, compared to some that I have looked at on this site.

Looking forward to a pain-free ride soon :) !!

Denise

[DebW]

I DEFINITELY need to try out some saddles, because after 10 miles I'm really feeling like the nose of my saddle is putting severe pressure on my crotch....

As I'm riding, in my head, I'm thinking...'I feel as if I'm sitting on the snout of a bottlenose dolphin' <<-- I love dolphins.........but, I don't need to have that feeling.
Denise

Have you tried changing the tilt of the saddle? Any saddle will put pressure there if the nose is tilted up too much. Try it flat, or with a very slight uptilt. But you don't want to feel like you're sliding off the front end because then your hands will hurt.

[Denise223]

Hi Deb!!

Thanks for answering my post.


Try it flat, or with a very slight uptilt. Deb W.

My saddle is flat, but I definitely will change it to a very slight uptilt, like you recommend. I'll be very happy if that helps :) !

By the way, "Hi neighbor!" :) .....

Have a great day!

Denise

[TsPoet]

I gotta ask, though, there are tons of different styles of bents out there. I will personally never go back, now that I've found performance bents (high racers, specifically), they are faster (more aero), more comfortable, more amenable to different rides...
I also have 2, one for touring/commuting/city riding and the high racer for fast road rides.
I also have an MTB with two sets of wheels, thin slicks and hobbies. I've ridden it twice this year. If I decide to do more off-road riding like I used to, I'll look into one of the few off-road bents.
The view is better, they are just plain fun. Even a bike that fits you right is hard on the neck, hands, butt, and back. All you have to do is get over the geek factor. Used to ride my MTB ~1000 miles/year - since going bent, I'm now riding 2500+ very happily - hope to get in close to 4000 miles this year.
I have looked into a DF for racing, since I really enjoy that. But, haven't been able to get over the fun/comfort factor of a bent. Even if DFs aren't uncomfortable, a DF just isn't as comfortable.
Just my $0.02, which is free, so not even worth $0.02.

[DebW]

I gotta ask, though, there are tons of different styles of bents out there. I will personally never go back, now that I've found performance bents (high racers, specifically), they are faster (more aero), more comfortable, more amenable to different rides...


Can you post a picture of a performance high racer bent? I've never seen one.

[DebW]

My saddle is flat, but I definitely will change it to a very slight uptilt, like you recommend. I'll be very happy if that helps :) !

Denise

The seat-to-handlebar distance also make a difference. If the reach is too great, your pelvis tilts too much and you get the saddle nose pressure. If your seat rails are long enough, try loosening the seat clamp and sliding the saddle forward. Try this for one ride and see if it makes a difference. It will change your saddle-to-pedal distance, so the better solution may be to move the handlebars back, but it's a good quick test.

[TsPoet]

Can you post a picture of a performance high racer bent? I've never seen one.
Um, no, that requires an (albeit tiny) amount of technical savvy that I've never bothered to figure out.
Here is a link to the Bicycle Man - showing the brand I really like (and own) with the "developer" of the modern high racer.
http://www.bicycleman.com/recumbents/bacchetta/bacchetta_aero_ti.htm
Mine is the "inexpensive" aluminum Corsa - love it.

The dual 26" high racers are being accepted in some of the longer races, such as race across Florida
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/USA/2004/apr04/apr20baf
which was won by someone on a Bacchetta (a co-owner of the company). In fact, a Bacchetta rider has finished in the top 3 places in that race the last 3 years, John Schlitter won in 2004 and 2006 and (I think) 5 of the top 6 finishers in 2006 were riding high racers.
The winner at Seabring was also on a Bacchetta (he just had to drop out of RAAM due to lung illness)
I'll be crewing for the Race Across Oregon Bacchetta team next month.

TS

[KnottedYet]

Someday I want a Bacchetta. (or the Volae copy of a Bacchetta)

I went from a wedgie-bike (Trek FastTrack) to a 'bent (BikeE) and now am back to a wedgie (Kona Dew). I loved my 'bent, could ride forever (or at least 85 miles), but oh my was it slow and inefficient on hills.

Everyone told me it was the bike, not me, and that I'd be happier with a high-racer.

Meanwhile I'm loving my Kona and looking into other uprights. Like I've said before in other threads, I'd like to have 3 bikes: a commuter, a steel-frame tourer, and a 'bent.

I've got the Kona to where it's pretty darn comfy. I want to put a wider/firmer saddle on it now. Brooks B67 or B72. www.wallbike.com

[TsPoet]

Lets see if I've done this right.

[WrensMom]

How long did you ride before deciding to switch to a bent?
Alas, I toughed it out for 8-9 years with a $300 Giant MTB with slicks before I got the 'bent:eek:

Also, TsPoet, there's nothing wrong with the 'bent. I love that pic of the high racer you posted. Mine is a '98 Haluzak Leprechaun. The reason I am still looking into a comfortable upright is just I just like both kinds of bikes, really, and would like to have a wedgie that fits and is fun to ride also.

Speaking of which, while I was cruising around the web in search of fit and comfort answers, I ran across these Bikes of Great Beauty called Rivendells. Has anyone seen these? They look really sweet, and their retroness (is that a word) really has some appeal as well. They appear to have been designed with comfort and practicality foremost. Actually, those saddles that Mimi mentioned would go great with them, too:)

[Kathi]

Do you know if your bike really fits you? Find a reputable fitter and find out for sure. You can read books about fit and use online fit systems but they won't spot individual differences like a fitter can.

When your sure you have a properly fitting bike then seek a good saddle.

An almost good enough fit won't do it. Sometimes a small adjustment makes the difference between a comfortable bike and one that is miserable.

[MomOnBike]

Here:

http://photos.jefforlowski.com/gallery/625526/1/26733446/Large

is another high-performance 'bent. From last year's RAAM.

[TsPoet]

Here:

http://photos.jefforlowski.com/gallery/625526/1/26733446/Large

is another high-performance 'bent. From last year's RAAM.

Yep, that's called a low racer. They are fast, many think faster on a track, but the high racers can handle road conditions better, that's what "they" say, I'm just repeating it. I think low racers look more cool than high racers, but high racers give more visibility.
and, since I didn't mean to hijack this thread, that's all I'll say :o

[Andi]

I agree with TS. My DF now hangs from the ceiling in the garage. I now have a bent and love it. It's not a high performance model, but it is so nice to ride. I agree it's not fast going up hill but is steady and it's fast going down hill and on the flat. Hope I never have to go back to the DF.

[Aint Doody]

Back on the pain front--y'all might check out my post on the Falcon X saddle about a new "strategy" I have..............:D

[pooks]

Do you know if your bike really fits you? Find a reputable fitter and find out for sure.

How do you find a reputable fitter?

[emily_in_nc]

Is it inevitable? Or are there any of you out there that truthfully do not experience any pain (crotch) when riding?

Pain is entirely unnecessary! I could relate to your story because I always, always had crotch pain during and after riding on upright bikes back in the days before saddles with cutouts. I finally said "enough", and my husband and I traded in our upright tandem for a recumbent tandem. We later bought single recumbents (Easy Racers Toureasys). But I quickly became frustrated because whenever I tried to ride with anyone else, I'd whiz by them on the descents only to get left in the dust on the climbs. The bike was comfortable in many ways (to the neck, shoulders, hands, and yes, the girlie bits), but I developed tailbone pain, which was just as bad as anything I'd experienced on an upright bike, just shifted back a few inches! :(

I finally realized that since my bike weighed 38 lbs. and I weighed 105, I was never going to be able to keep up with my peers on hills, so I decided to give upright bikes another try. I bought a 21-lb. Terry Isis with a Butterfly saddle, and after the first few rides (where everyone will experience sitbone pain as that area "toughens up") I experienced absolutely NO pain in the nether regions. I rode my first century on this bike, and while other parts of me hurt, my crotch never did. And in 2004 I went on to do a nine-day, 565-mile tour (averaging close to 63 miles a day) on a Bike Friday Pocket Crusoe (and Butterfly saddle) without crotch pain.

So to answer your question, once you have a well-fitting bike, the proper position on it, and an appropriate saddle for your anatomy, you should no longer have pain in the girlie bits from riding an upright bike.

And I am not knocking recumbents; if I had had a light-weight one, I might still be riding it. But I'm really happy with upright bikes now and the recumbents have all been sold.

Hope this helps!
Emily

[pyxichick]

Seat angle makes a huge difference. I had mine adjusted so it was level rather than slightly up at the front, and the pain went away. After a few rides, the pain returned, and my boyfriend looked at my saddle one day and said "your saddle shifted back." He was right. When I moved it back to level, it was comfortable again. I probably wouldn't have noticed by looking at it, so now I use a level to make sure it's where it should be.

[Geonz]

You've gotten some good advice... I just want to add that my crotch doesn't hurt from riding my diamond frame - I did a 48 miles today, though there were a couple of breaks, and that was without cycling shorts. (Of course, that might just mean I have no nerve endings... 'cept I know that's not true either ;)) However, that is true of my steel bike, and not really true of the aljuminum one...but it's my butt that hurts on that one.
The wrong saddle does bug me ... but the right bike, saddle and fit should mean no pain.

[WrensMom]

Thank you for your replies! I am really feeling encouraged now. I have been out bike shopping for a new upright bike (I have another thread about that). So far I have found a couple that might be ok, but I am still looking for "the one". I plan on riding some more this weekend.

Emily--your story sounds quite similar to mine, even the tailbone pain. The tailbone started acting up after the birth of my daughter, and while it is less painful than the crotch pain, it's not fun either. I still really like my 'bent though, and I don't plan on selling it, at least not yet. Your success with uprights gives me hope!:)

[ellenclary]

Years ago I stopped biking much due to hand and crotch pain.
The hand pain I've addressed but was never successful at solving the crotch pain. I went through about 10 saddles and still routinely buy them though one of my bikes was stolen so not so much any more.

I've since bought a recumbent and happily ride without crotch pain but I miss climbing hills as climbing in a recumbent is doable but tough.

Enter the internet and this forum. (I should have looked here a long time ago but was obsessing on mountain climbing and dog agility). I'm following this thread with much interest. The person that pointed out that you don't sit on your "girlie bits" when you're sitting in a chair got my attention and also that over reaching may also cause problems.

Does this mean that you're only supposed to sit on your butt and never on your pubic bone? (Even with a saddle that has a hole cut in it?) When sitting in a chair I sit on my butt and thighs. Since on a regular bike I don't have the use of my thighs is there any pressure on the front at all (in a perfect world?)

Still pondering this,

Ellen

[KnottedYet]

Nope, no pressure at all. No (NO) weight bearing on the pubic bone. It's all on the ischial tuberosities (sit bones). You need a saddle with the right shape for you, and it will allow your thighs to do their work unhindered.

Adjust the bars so you don't reach too far.

Get a seat that matches your pelvis and thighs in your riding postition.

I used to ride a recumbent. Nice seat. No weight on the soft tissue or the pubic bone. Before that I was on a Trek FastTrack (570?) in drops with a Terry Sport. No weight on the soft tissue or pubic bone. My new bike I was on a Serfas Niva (i think, but don't quote me on that). Cut out. No weight on soft stuff or pubic bone. Now I've got a Brooks B67 on the same bike. Oh, my goodness, what a great saddle for me! It's shaped like a "T" instead of like a pear and is wide enought for my sit bones. Wonderful. No weight anywhere it shouldn't be, and my thighs are free to pedal! It's just so cool.

[snapdragen]

Speaking of which, while I was cruising around the web in search of fit and comfort answers, I ran across these Bikes of Great Beauty called Rivendells. Has anyone seen these? They look really sweet, and their retroness (is that a word) really has some appeal as well. They appear to have been designed with comfort and practicality foremost. Actually, those saddles that Mimi mentioned would go great with them, too:)

Yes, we have some Riv girls here. Veronica is currenty touring on Fluffy. jobob has a small stable with Pokey and Dusty, in addition to hubby's Waldo and the Blue bike.

Yes, they are lovely Bikes of Great Beauty!