Which MTB to Choose?

[Quillfred]

1)I'm wondering at what point a hardtail needs to be full-suspension--I'm guessing when it is single-track, technical, downhill only trails?

2)When it is FS, which of the various types to choose? I'm referring to the different rear suspension designs. I'm wondering if they differ much. I'm nerdy so any good links on this is much appreciated.

Since it seems harder to test ride mtn, is it recommended to rent various models and take them out to the woods?

Quillfred--wants to get dirty sometimes and leave the traffic behind

Thanks!

[bcipam]

Tough question - it all depends how you want to ride. I ride a hartail and full suspension bike and like both and do both on the same trails but generally, if the downhills are steeper, gnarly, more technical, I want my fully. And although I'm riding a fully, I have friends doing the some trails and downhills on rigid singlespeeds.

The general difference between HT and fully is that with a HT your legs and arms become the bike's suspension. You can tire out quicker and you can't usually ride as fast because you need to be up out of the saddle using your legs when if riding a fully, you can still sit and pedal. HT's are lighter and generally better hill climbers but the new shocks allow for lockout or "propedal" cycling which aids in climbing.

Anyway, if considering a fully, try to keep the design simple, fewer pivot points. Consider mechanical not hydraulic disc brakes or better yet V-brakes because they are easier to use and maintain.

Hopefully you know of a bike shop and/or mechanic you can trust to ask questions.

A good fully to consider, not alot of money, but easily upgraded is Specialized FSR. Stay with the basic model** and skip the hydraulic disc brakes. The components and wheels can later be upgraded. Price is around $1650 - 2000.

**basic model has mechanical disc brakes.

[tomgrrrl]

My two cents.....If it weren't for full-suspension, I wouldn't be mountain biking....I used to have a hardtail, but never found it that fun.....plus, I'm older (49) and appreciate the comfort of the full suspension....I mountain bike a lot now and find myself riding trails I wouldn't have dreamed of riding ten years ago......(plus it's easier on my body which is important :-) )....I have the Specialized FSR and had the brakes converted to disk brakes last summmer......I love the disc brakes and haven't had any problems and they are easier on the hands (for me)....the young chicks may not have an issue...

Ellen

[DirtDiva]

bcipam, I'll concede that v-brakes are easier to maintain, but easier to use??? Do you never ride in wet glop? Do you never come across really steep little downhills with sharp corners at the bottom that require very careful braking to tackle successfully? Now I've tried 'em, I wouldn't dream of having anything other than hydraulic discs! They've had a bit of lever tweaking to bring the reach in, but that's about it; my (fairly entry level) Hayes have been very reliable. :)

[bcipam]

Wait - I didn't say I ride with V-brakes. My bikes have disc (but mechanical not hydraulic). I love disc brakes and it I didn't think it was dorky, would put them on my road bike (but that would be dorky).

My comment was as to what is easy to use and maintain... I think disc brakes require a little more know-how and patience.

[fatbottomedgurl]

If you have a resort nearby that has trails there are usually bikes for rent. For example I am going to Mammoth Lakes tomorrow, and they rent bikes. That's one way to test ride. Or get to know women who ride and if they're your size they might take you out on a test run. Fit is not as critical on a mtb.

I ride a hardtail but feel I need a full sus for the same reasons as tomgrrl. I rode an 8 mile technical downhill today and was up in the pedals with my butt behind the seat almost the whole way. My arms were history and my hands numb. You take a lot of abuse on a hardtail. We shuttled the bikes back up and I volunteered to drive down and meet the girls after their second run.

You will probably want an "All Mountain" bike as opposed to XC or Freeride. I tested a Trek Fuel as I posted before (too short in the top tube). I also tested a Gary Fisher Cake 2GS which I liked because it comes in a size 13". My friends ride everything- Specialized, Cannondale, Santa Cruz. They are all taller than me so I can't try theirs. And everyone loves their Full Sus and hydrallics. Have fun shopping, and buy the best you can afford, even if it means waiting (that what my Dad always said.)

[madisongrrl]

My comment was as to what is easy to use and maintain... I think disc brakes require a little more know-how and patience.

I disagree....They don't really take more know-how to use them. You use the same way you use any brakes.

1. Pull the lever to brake.
2. Don't pull the lever if you don't have your wheel attached (insert the brake spacer when you remove your front wheel when transporting the bike).

As far as maintenance is concerned, yes there is a bit more to it. But if you pay someone to tune up and maintain your bike, then it is not really any more of a burden (bleed kit etc...which if you are so inclined, you can do yourself and it is not that difficult). Rotors and pads wear out and need replacement. On the flip side, regular brakes still need to be maintained also (adjustments just because, adjustments from cable stretch and brake pads wear out faster....and it is not any harder to adjust regular brakes vs disc...I think disc brakes are actually easier to adjust.) While the maintenance between regular/mechanical brakes is different from hydraulic disc brakes, regular brakes often need more attention and MORE maintenance than hydraulic disc brakes.

If it is a price point thing (as far as your budget), then you have to figure out what is important to you.

Hydraulic brakes are lighter and more powerful than mechanical brakes. Hydraulic disc brakes are smooth, easy to use, easy on your hands, will work wonderfully in wet conditions, safer and are not an all or nothing thing like conventional brakes. I think they are a worthwhile investment especially if you like to race or go on epic mountain bike rides with lots of fun singletrack where technical braking is a must.

[SadieKate]

If it comes down to budget though, I would buy the best suspension possible and go with V-brakes rather than disc. You can upgrade one later fairly easily while a better fork and rear shock can be horrendously expensive. Of course, having said that I know notice you are on the damp side of the Cascades. Disc brakes work better in wet conditions. Mechanical are the easiest to maintain.

FS for the same reasons as tomgrrl. I also climb much better because the back wheel maintains better traction and doesn't require as much power over obstacles. No need to lock out with a good pedal stroke.

Not so sure about "all mountain" vs XC. Depends on the terrain you'll be riding. An all mountain bike can be significantly heavier. In addition, an all mountain bike can have a long wheel base which is great for the fire roads of California but can take a lot of the fun out of the really tight narrow singletrack of central Oregon.

Do what you can to rent different types and ride the trails you want. Look at what others are riding and ask them why and if they would buy something different if they did it all over again.

When you travel from one region to another, you will see that people ride vastly different bikes with different components and tires because of regional terrain. What is optimum in Moab isn't optimum in the Cascades. Go hang out with the local clubs and see what they are riding.

When all is said and done though, make sure the frame and fork are the best you can get for your budget. The rest can be upgraded over time.

[SadieKate]

Here is a good article that will give you the suspension design terminology for your research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_bike

For tight narrow single-track, I adore my Titus Racer-X which has a Horst link with a McPerpherson strut (I think I remembered that right).
http://www.titusti.com/fs_tech.html

For fire roads and bigger hits, I like my Marin Mt Vision. It predates the quad design which gets some good reviews. This bike has a significantly longer wheelbase than the Racer-X and is more stable on loose and steep terrain but is a liability on narrow track with 90 degree turns, one after the other, between trees spaced shoulder width apart.
http://www.marinbikes.com/bicycles_2006/html/resources/i_res_suspension.html

[fatbottomedgurl]

I'm sorry I am in my delerious post ride state. I meant to say XC, not All Mountain. My bad. :o

And yes we have fireroads but lots of technical singletrack. Just not damp, but very dry and rocky. Good advice to ask the locals.

[Pebble]

Giant's new Maestro suspension system is pretty good.:) :D

[Brandi]

I have both types of bike as well. On my hard tail I have a carbon seat post. It makes it really nice to ride! The full suspension is good too. But I think I prefer the hard tail. But that is just me.:D

[Quillfred]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful replies. You have given me much to think about and consider. I look forward to giving it a whirl.

Renting definitely seems the easiest. I will probably start with a hardtail and do some easy local trails.

For the more technical, it looks smart to take a class or at least do a camp. I should make a summer trip up to Whistler mountain as I know they sometimes have biking camps. It is curious to me that you can have more control with more shock absorbtion. I will get right to "play"! :D

[SadieKate]

Well, you are in the right neck 'o the woods.

http://www.whistlerbike.com/camps-lessons/camps/spokeswomen/index.htm

http://www.dirtseries.com/index.php

[crazycanuck]

Hey quillfred..

Just letting you know i'm one of the few i think here with a hardtail..Reason..I don't huck..I'm still working on speed-i can go fast but i seem to be getting slower..:(

I have a Scott Scale 40 & love it.

We bought really cheap bikes in 03, have no idea what they were but they were crap. They ended up being stolen made a hasty bike buy but didn't know about bike fit etc at the time...The bike was REALLY heavy, disc brakes & a hard tail.

05-we decided it was time for an upgrade..Looked at giant, specialized & scott as they're the main ones sold in Western Australia..Chose the scott scale 40 because the WSD Scott Contessa fx15 had crap components & noone sold them in perth..

Anywho, it does have hydraulic disc brakes/dual shifters & am amazed on how fast they stop!!! I love the bike as it's LIGHT!!!, handles really well, lockout susp and just a nice bike allround.

Ian has a dually but i wanted to improve before i bought one..NExt upgrade perhaps i'll get one..

c

[crimsongirl]

Hi All, I am pretty new to this forum and would just like to say what a great place..!!!

Quillfred, I was in the same position as yourself and reading from the forum most of you guy's have loads of different cool mtb..!!! I have been looking for myself as I had a hardtail but felt every bump with my husband having fs. I of course now wanted a fs bike and ready to upgrade. I felt hardtail to be just a little uncomfortable doing long distance. Being as I am only 5'2 I ended up going for a woman specific one. Tried the speciliazed, giant and scott but ended up with the Juliana Santacruze one and broke the bank :confused: .

Unfortunately here in UK we don't get that much choice and not many bike shops have them in stock but I managed to find one and to be honest it came head between the Juliana and the Titus.

http://www.titusti.com/womensfit.html

Juliana won with price and I just could not afford the titus..!!!.. (shattered dreams nice bike if you got the dosh..)

We are off today to do a ride try the new girl out and its my first time out on a full suspension. I hope it lives up to what I except..!! Should do with how much it cost..!!!.. Then again I always say, go with what is comfy because at the end of the day its you that has to ride and enjoy it..!!!

[bcipam]

I disagree....They don't really take more know-how to use them. You use the same way you use any brakes.

1. Pull the lever to brake.
2. Don't pull the lever if you don't have your wheel attached (insert the brake spacer when you remove your front wheel when transporting the bike).



That was a joke right???

OK my message was not understood by most but this is what I needed and wanted to say. First of all by all means get disc brakes. Again I like them, use them on my bikes. Great stopping power - much easier to control bikes down long descents. And yes its as easy as one finger on the brake lever.

Thinking back as a newbie to these brakes, I just remember some issues I had with them. Of course Vbrakes have issues as well. I could remember having difficulty at times when I removed the front wheel for transportation trying to get the Vbrake engaged again. It seemed I just didn't have the strength to pulled the brake cable across but I finally learned how.

Anyway to disc brakes both mechanical and hydraulic. Of course hydraulic cost more. One consideration. And if there is a problem, unless you know what to do, you will have to see a mechanic. The mechanical brakes are fairly simple. Now not to say I haven't had any problems (took me alittle while to figure out how to insert the brake pads).

Unless someone is actually riding in muddy, wet conditions and doing steep, technical downhills, Vbrakes are quite sufficient and for most have tremendous stopping power (unless you are a big gal like me). If it's a matter of money, you will save in not getting disc (but make sure the bike and wheels are "disc ready") and when you are ready - this is an area that can easily be upgraded. Spend your money first on components, shock and fork and then worry about the brakes.

[SadieKate]

Unless someone is actually riding in muddy, wet conditions and doing steep, technical downhills, Vbrakes are quite sufficient and for most have tremendous stopping power (unless you are a big gal like me). If it's a matter of money, you will save in not getting disc (but make sure the bike and wheels are "disc ready") and when you are ready - this is an area that can easily be upgraded. Spend your money first on components, shock and fork and then worry about the brakes.I completely agree with this. Well said except for the "wet conditions AND doing steep . . . " It really should be "OR." Picky, picky, picky. :)

[Nanci]

I love my Avid mechanical discs, and they aren't any more confusing/hard to deal with than V-brakes. Great for mud. Great for long tough downhills. After riding Black Mountain in NC, and having my forearms dying from lactic acid on the descent, I knew discs were the way to go on the next bike.

I went from HT to FS, and I love my bike, Titus Locomoto, but he's kind of heavy. I would probably take that more into consideration on a next bike.

Nanci

[snowtulip]

As with everything, every person is different. I have a hardtail and a full suspension. I must say that I prefer my hardtail and will do drops and downhill on my hardtail. I've also done fairly well with the hardtail while riding with full suspension people. One of my favorite times on the bike was getting a lot of slack from hubbies friends for bringing my hardtail to enjoy Porcupine Rim (moab, utah) while they all had fs. I kept them in site most of the time, sure you lose some speed, but the responsiveness on my hardtail is great.

Saying that, keep in mind that I think I love my hardtail because it's steel, when I had an aluminum hardtail, it sure hurt.

I bought my full suspension because of some knee issues, but found that strength training helped. I know that fs does help incredibly for people who suffer from knee and back issues.

Either way, I hope you love your bike!:D