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Lise
06-12-2006, 05:59 PM
My wonderful new Bianchi Veloce has its first flat tire. I think it happened when I rode over too-rough pavement. Anyways...I've changed bike tires before. Just not on these wheels.

I cannot get the tire irons in!!! :mad:

Losing my mind!

I will not take a screwdriver to it, but I want to! I just can't pry the darned thing up.

The wheels are Campy, the tires vittoria rubino tech. Any tips? I'll probably figure this out before anyone posts, but hey, I got to vent. Back to it. arghhhhhh..... L.

Lise
06-12-2006, 06:06 PM
ummmm....I hadn't let all the air out of the tire. The magic internet taught me this. I am a moron. Back to work...

KnottedYet
06-12-2006, 06:44 PM
Not that this would have changed your air in the tire issue, but.... I've become quite fond of the Crank Brothers Speed Levers for messing with tires.

Simple and fast and one piece. And only $7.

Lise
06-12-2006, 06:47 PM
It's not over yet, but thanks for the info. I broke one tire iron, just snapped the head right off trying to pry this bead out of the rim. I got the thing off with the two remaining tire irons. Got the tube out. The tube is fine. The valve was broken, as far as I can tell. I have another tube. Got that in. Now I cannot get that last foot of bead back onto the rim.

I feel like such an inept moron and fraud of a cyclist at this moment.

Back to it. I put on some gospel music and ate three Thin Mints.

L.

Lise
06-12-2006, 07:08 PM
OK, that's it. I am done for tonight.

I got the tire back on. My thumbs are killing me. And the brand new tire won't fill with air. The problem is not with my tube. Is it with my PUMP? I'm taking old tube, new tube in tire, and pump to LBS tomorrow. I do not care how moronic I look or how simple my mistake turns out to be. I am frustrated. Or, as my three year old nephew once said:


Fer-US-ter-a-ted!

Thanks, kn, for the suggestion. I have never had such difficulty getting a tire off (and on) a rim.

L.

maillotpois
06-12-2006, 07:29 PM
Make the LBS walk you through the process. Don't just give them the wheel and walk away. Ask them to explain it to you. Bring your OWN Pump to make sure you are using it right.

You are not a moron. You are learning. We are all learning.

Lise
06-12-2006, 07:41 PM
Make the LBS walk you through the process. Don't just give them the wheel and walk away. Ask them to explain it to you. Bring your OWN Pump to make sure you are using it right.

You are not a moron. You are learning. We are all learning.
I will, Sarah, thanks for your kind words. I thought I knew how to change a bike tube. It's really not a big deal, but I felt like--"those real riders know how to do this, it's easy for them"--and, "who are you kidding, Lise? You can never do a 1/2 IM! You couldn't even change a tire if you flatted!"

Whoa.

That's when I knew I had to stop. I can handle pain a lot better than embarrassment. Well, we'll refer all newbies to this thread, eh? They'll feel better.

Pedal Wench
06-12-2006, 07:42 PM
Lise, you are NOT crazy, a moron, or even mildly unsure of how to change a tire!

Campy wheels are NOTORIOUS for being a complete pain in the a$$ to change. Numerous threads on bikeforums.net of big, beefy guys who struggle with them. THEY'RE REALLY HARD TO CHANGE! I spent a good hour trying to remove my first tire, and a good 30 minutes trying to put it back on. Speed levers will crumble instantly with these wheels. I can only use steel or Pedro's stubby yellow levers. They're the only ones that you can really get enough strength behind them to get the bead off/on. I just have to use more power than you would ever imagine.

It's not you! Trust me on this!

Edit: It gets easier as the tires stretch out!

Lise
06-12-2006, 07:57 PM
Lise, you are NOT crazy, a moron, or even mildly unsure of how to change a tire!

Campy wheels are NOTORIOUS for being a complete pain in the a$$ to change. Numerous threads on bikeforums.net of big, beefy guys who struggle with them. THEY'RE REALLY HARD TO CHANGE! I spent a good hour trying to remove my first tire, and a good 30 minutes trying to put it back on. Speed levers will crumble instantly with these wheels. I can only use steel or Pedro's stubby yellow levers. They're the only ones that you can really get enough strength behind them to get the bead off/on. I just have to use more power than you would ever imagine.

It's not you! Trust me on this!

Edit: It gets easier as the tires stretch out!Thank you SO MUCH for telling me that!!! That will help me sleep tonight. I was on the verge of doing it all over again to figure out what was wrong, but my thumbs are so sore from lifting that last 6" of tire back on to the rim that common sense over came me, and I stopped. It was like my entire triathlon career was on the line. Lise vs. Tire. I will be interested to see what the problem is. Tire valve? Dunno. In the meantime, I am glad this happened at home, and NOT on the road. I must have the tools to do this on the road. These little plastic tire levers are not sufficient. One just snapped. The other two held, and I did get the tire off and back on again...imagine the frustration when, after all that, the tire gauge on the pump reads "120 psi", and the tire is still completely flat. I'll bring the update tomorrow post-LBS.

Thanks you guys. L.

KnottedYet
06-12-2006, 08:06 PM
Soma makes steel-skeleton tire irons. www.somafab.com

Remind me not to get Campy tires... I have enough swear-words with my Kona Cheapos and my Speed Lever!

jobob
06-12-2006, 09:02 PM
This past Saturday my husband Lee & I went on the metric century graduation ride for our club's road riding academy. We hung in back with the newer riders.

One of the riders got a flat. She was having a hard time getting the tire off the rim so Lee offered to help. Mind you, he's very good at changing flats.

After several minutes of sweating and grunting and one plastic lever broken, he still didn't have the tire off the rim.

I then pulled out my trusty Crank Brothers Speed Lever and innocently asked, "Sweetie, would you like to try this???"
(you see, if I had offered it right off the bat he would have refused it. After 17 years of marriage I have learned a thing or two).

"Sure, why not?" he grumbles.

Click. Zip. Plunk. Tire off in 10 seconds.

"Hey, this is great!!!" he says.

Putting the tire back on again, I let Lee struggle for a few moments and then I innocently piped up "um, the Speed Lever is really good for putting tires back on the rim too..."

Click. Zip. Plunk. Tire back on in 10 seconds.

"Hey, this is great!!!" he says again.


A couple of lessons learned:

Some tires really are a pain to get off the rim. It's definitely not you !!!

Crank Bros. Speed Levers work really well (er, can't say I've tried them on Campy wheels though).

Lise
06-12-2006, 09:23 PM
Thanks for the story, jb! I'll ask the LBS guys what they think of the speed tool. I want to ask them why they didn't WARN me about these wheels! Again, glad to learn the lesson in my dining room, and not on the road.

Night, all--L.

Grog
06-12-2006, 09:35 PM
I don't know about Campy wheels, but the tricks described here will certainly help you, no matter what.
http://www.teamestrogen.com/articles/asa_levers.asp

I follow these guidelines and only use the levers when I feel lazy, only to pull the tire off, only with one lever, only after I've nicely loosened up the tire and taken one bit out of the rim. I'll then insert the lever and zip down.

I've never used a lever to put the tire on (actually I have no idea how I would do that).

Park Tool blue plastic levers are pretty good at not breaking, from what I've heard, but I have no experience with others...

By the ways I love those Rubino tires, and they're rather easy to take off, so I'd totally blame the wheel. There also might be something wrong with the pump....

Now that I think about it: I think you already had that pump for your other bike, which probably had Shraeder valves, right? Did you change the configuration of the pump to adapt to presta?? You probably did that already, but just in case, that could help...

Eden
06-12-2006, 10:18 PM
By the ways I love those Rubino tires, and they're rather easy to take off, so I'd totally blame the wheel. There also might be something wrong with the pump....


Hmmmm I don't know if its a Rubino or not, but I have one Vittoria tire that I got as a door prize and used this winter. Let's just say that I am really really glad its a tough tire and it never got a flat because it was so tight that it took both my husband and myself pushing and pulling on the thing to get it onto the rim. I think that tires can vary in size a little bit and sometimes you can get a tight one.

DebW
06-13-2006, 05:39 AM
Reading this thread made me glad that I ride sewups. Common practice for mounting a sewup, which may possibly be useful here (not really sure but maybe worth a try) is to stretch the tire first. Either put your foot on it and pull up, or put it behind your back, grab it from both sides with your hands, and rotate your shoulders forward.

Grog
06-13-2006, 08:10 AM
Hmmmm I don't know if its a Rubino or not, but I have one Vittoria tire that I got as a door prize and used this winter. Let's just say that I am really really glad its a tough tire and it never got a flat because it was so tight that it took both my husband and myself pushing and pulling on the thing to get it onto the rim. I think that tires can vary in size a little bit and sometimes you can get a tight one.

Mine was indeed a Vittoria Rubino Pro, sorry you have had trouble. I agree with Deb, stretching it might help.

But that thing IS tough. What mesmerizes me about this tire is how it can accumulate dents but never actually be pierced by sharp objects. When cleaning my bike after a rainy ride the other day I closely inspected my tires and noticed how many cuts there were in it, yet I don't remember getting a flat on that wheel (I have a Rubino on my front wheel only right now). The very first ride of this year I rode over a broken bottle. I was going to my first training ride and I was scared I'd have to change a flat in a hurry before we went riding together, so I stopped about a kilometer after rolling over the glass, thinking I'd inspect the tire just in case. Well there WAS a nicely sharp piece of glass gently protruding right in the middle of the rolling band. It took me at least 3 minutes to pry it out of there. I can still see the cut, but it wasn't deep enough to cut the tube.

So anyway, just had to say I was happy about that tire. I just ordered a pair of the thing so I can get my two wheels to look the same!!

So, Lise, how are you doing with that celestial flat?

Pedal Wench
06-13-2006, 08:38 AM
Most Campy wheels are notorious for being difficult. I snapped the Speed Levers within the first two seconds of trying to use them. So, save yourself the hassle. Go with steel or the Pedros, and put everything you've got into it. I doubt you'll be able to put the tire back on without the help of levers too. I get as much of the tire seated as possible, make sure the tube is tucked far out of the way, and then use the lever for, well, leverage to slip the tire back onto the rim.

Steph_in_TX
06-13-2006, 11:22 AM
I've never seen dh so mad as the times he was trying to change tires on the Campy wheels. Both Michelin and Continental tires were almost impossible to get off. After the latest episode, during which many tires levers were broken and many cuss words thrown about, I told him he had to sell them or he was going to have some sort of coronary event and kill himself.

That said...we now have a pair of Campy wheels for sale. :D

Lise
06-13-2006, 12:51 PM
Hey, guys, thanks for all the commiserating about the Campy wheels! :D

I went to LBS and my favorite guy was behind the counter (no, Nanci, not Dennis, he's the owner, it turns out, and almost never there). John. I like him because he's calm, but not comatose. He has a sense of humor. As it turns out, there were two problems:

1. Old tube--little bit of valve had snapped off. "It happens", he said. "OK," said I, "did it happen because of anything *I* did?" Maybe pulling the pump off the valve sideways. Always pull it straight back.

2. New tube--valve too short to use with my pump. I have a universal valve on the pump (this is the famous pink pump), and the valve must be at least 45mm long to inflate it with that pump. "We don't even sell this tube", he said. I replied, "I bought it here the day I bought my bike." Hmmmm. Sorry. He gave me a new tube, a new replacement tube, and three new levers, blue, a heavier, more flexible plastic.

He ordered a telescoping speed lever for me, a home version of what they use in the store. I also learned some good tricks for dealing with the Campy wheels.

A funny note: There was a new silver bike leaning up against the counter. I glanced at it and thought, "What a beautiful bike", then looked more closely. It was a Marin Larkspur, my original bike! When I say I love my old bike, I'm not kidding! I love both of my bikes. I feel a lot better about racing the Bianchi now. And glad that I have such tough tires. I would've had to change the tube anyways, since the broken valve wouldn't hold air pressure. But happily, nothing had punctured the tube. I ride over all the usual city crap--glass, metal, rocks, broken pavement. I avoid it when I can, but often can't do much.

I'm so happy that I'm going to ride the Bianchi to work tomorrow, and just double lock it in the clinic's basement. Plus I cover it with my sweaty riding clothes, to make it look less interesting to anybody who's looking. :D L.

CorsairMac
06-13-2006, 01:19 PM
Lise if it helps any?..........Sat last I did a centuary and I kept passing this couple on the side of the road always working on their tires, always with a crowd around them. In the last 15 miles of the ride there they were again, on the bike path, just the 2 of them working on their tires again. My riding buddy and I stopped and he asked if we knew how to change a tire?? :eek: :confused:

He also wanted to know if either of us might have a spare tube coz he didn't have any. I said I have a tube that will work up to a 700x28 and he said "oh that won't fit my tire is a 700x25". I assured him it would work Just fine! She had not a clue how to change a tire either. So my riding buddy and I taught them both right then and there how to change a tire.

Where is this story going you ask?......she was wearing the Hawaii Ironman Jersey and said she had just competed in the qualifier last week in Hawaii. (and she didn't know how to change a tire! hmmmmmmmmm)



(ps: my friends speed lever didn't work this time...these were the toughest tires I have Ever seen getting off and on. The guy said someone had already broken 2 levers the last time he stopped)

Lise
06-13-2006, 01:38 PM
Where is this story going you ask?......she was wearing the Hawaii Ironman Jersey and said she had just competed in the qualifier last week in Hawaii. (and she didn't know how to change a tire! hmmmmmmmmm)
No freaking way! Thanks for telling me. I wonder, had she never flatted, or did she just always have someone around to fix it for her? Seems strange.

I'll never forget the sight of the previous year's IM Kona champion throwing his bike onto the lava fields in disgust. t-a-n-t-r-u-m. I am proud to say I did not throw anything last night. :rolleyes: Then again, my Kona championship wasn't exactly on the line....:cool: L.

luv'nAustin
06-13-2006, 03:59 PM
I think it might be time for me to fess up...I can't change my own tire and it is humiliating! I understand how to do it, and can get my wheel off of my bike, but I can't get the tire back on the rim. And this was with my old bike, I haven't even attempted to get my current tires off of my new bike. I have been lucky in the past and my coach changed them for me. However, one time I was out with my girlfriends and no one could get that tire on, so I had to sit and wait for them to come back for me in the car.

This is the reason that I can't bike alone. I think that I will have to bring that wheel inside (where it is cooler) and struggle until I learn. I don't need this monkey on my back any longer! Time to become an independent woman!

Trekhawk
06-13-2006, 06:06 PM
I think it might be time for me to fess up...I can't change my own tire and it is humiliating! I understand how to do it, and can get my wheel off of my bike, but I can't get the tire back on the rim. And this was with my old bike, I haven't even attempted to get my current tires off of my new bike. I have been lucky in the past and my coach changed them for me. However, one time I was out with my girlfriends and no one could get that tire on, so I had to sit and wait for them to come back for me in the car.

This is the reason that I can't bike alone. I think that I will have to bring that wheel inside (where it is cooler) and struggle until I learn. I don't need this monkey on my back any longer! Time to become an independent woman!

That is a great way to do it. When I first started cycling I used the info provided here at TE in the How To Guides (its great I even printed it out and carry it with me in case I panic and cant remember what to do). I sat at home and changed tyre after tyre until I felt a little more confident about it. I ride on my own all the time so this was very important for me.

Give it a shot - and then you wont have to worry about not riding on your own.

Running Mommy
06-13-2006, 06:59 PM
"Where is this story going you ask?......she was wearing the Hawaii Ironman Jersey and said she had just competed in the qualifier last week in Hawaii. (and she didn't know how to change a tire! hmmmmmmmmm)"

Well you know what they say about triathletes C-mac... Jack of all trades but master of NONE!!! :cool:

Yes, I can change a tire. Have I gone through the same frustration Lise did? Oh HELL yeah!! In fact the last time I changed a flat on the tires that came stock with my QR it was ugly. SO many saucy words were flying out of my mouth!! I think I managed to break a record on how many swear words I could string together in one sentence. It was UGLY!! And come to think about it I think they were the same tires Lise has!
I have to admit though, I live in FEAR of getting a flat in a race! I may be able to do it, but not with any speed. It's getting that last 6 or so inches of tire seeded back on the rim! :mad:
At IMAZ I said a little prayer everytime I passed someone w/ a flat. I kept saying "oh please lord. No flat today. I don't have time. And please help that sould change theirs quick"... I think the power of prayer worked :D , that and my conti GP4000 tires. Those puppies are bomb proof. Well, all tires will flat eventually, but I like the less supple tires as I find they don't pick up as much debris. My all time fave tires are Vredsteins because they are so easy to get on and off, but they pick up EVERYTHING! I had THREE flats in one ride!!
But yeah, we should all know how to change a flat. You don't want something like that to ruin a perfectly good ride.
And back to that lady c-mac ran into at that ride... I had one of those at IMAZ as well.
I came upon a girl off her bike staring at her tire. I slowed down and asked if she had everything she needed. She said "I have a flat" and so I said "well do you have everything you need?" and she goes "I have never changed a tire"... :confused: "WTF" I thought to myself. Then told her I would look for a bike support van for her. I'm not sure if the rules would have let me help her, and part of me feels guilty for not stopping, but then I was a bit miffed that she went into a race like that without learning the basics. :rolleyes:

Anyhoo, I've heard that certain rims and tires clash. SOunds like you may have that problem Lise. But man that stinks if that's the case. I would love to have ANYTHING campy, but now I'm thinking "but not their wheels"... :p

Pedal Wench
06-13-2006, 07:31 PM
Hey, guys, thanks for all the commiserating about the Campy wheels! :D
..... I also learned some good tricks for dealing with the Campy wheels.
L.


Lise, care to share any of those Campy tricks????

Lise
06-13-2006, 07:46 PM
Lise, care to share any of those Campy tricks????
let's see...make sure all, all, all the air is out. "Break" the bead on both sides before starting to try to get the tire levers in. I think this means squeeze the side of the tire into the middle all the way around. Start with a tire lever on the opposite side from the valve (this is different from what I read in my Everything Bicycle Book). If you can't get the second tire lever in, move it another several inches away from the first one, and try again. Don't even try to hook them on the spokes (that's how I broke one lever). Get the first and second ones in, lift up the tire, and then slide the second lever all the way around to lift out the rest of the tire.

Getting 'em back in? John said, "Yeah, that's hard for everybody".

I don't know if those are Campy specific tricks, or things people here already knew, but they helped me.

Denise/RM--I'm impressed that you stopped to talk to that lady on the IMAZ course at all. You knew you would be cutting it close with time, yet you gave her some. And I'm really glad you didn't stop to fix her flat, cuz you wouldn't have finished in time.

Again, I'm so glad this happened in my dining room, with my computer close at hand, and the day off today, so I could go into the LBS for help. I learned a lot. The funniest moment was when he said he didn't carry those tubes, and I said, "well, you sold it to me." What, one of the techs had it lying around? In any event, I've got the right tubes now, and you'd best believe I will have that speed tool on hand. When I have to use it, I'll let you all know how it works.

plantluvver
06-14-2006, 02:10 AM
Two weeks ago, someone was demonstrating how to change my tire to me, and he struggled with it. And I was reminded once again, that it isn't always MY FAULT when something doesn't workout easily . Sometimes it is just as hard for anyone, period.

I am so glad that happened, because if I had experienced the same thing on my own, I know that I would have blamed my stupidity, or my lack of arm strength, or any number of things for my difficulties.

I remember reading about a study somewhere and I don't remember the details, it may have been with math problems. When males were given an impossible problem to solve, they blamed their difficulties on the problem. Females tend to think something is wrong with themselves, and question their abilities. And the reverse is true for easy problems. Males feel proud of their abilities, females think that their sucess is the ease of the problem.

I have a BA in math, and when I have trouble understanding something in math, I STILL often think I am incompetent, despite all my experience in being sucessful at math. And I still don't beleive I will ever be able to make sense of it.:eek: And my one professor who has great faith in me (That I don't feel I deserve, I feel he was impressed by a LUCKY hunch of mine, anyone in the room could have seen it.) is amazed that I can still have this lack of confidence and comfort with my math abilities.

I think it is our training in being modest as girls that is to blame. I remember turning my math papers upside down, because I didn't want my neighbor to feel bad when I got an A and she was getting D's and F's. I felt guilty for being better than her.

So while the difficult tire wasn't a girl thing, feeling dumb about it most likely was a girl thing.

Mary

Lise
06-14-2006, 05:26 AM
That's a great point. When I read that "men blame the problem" if it's too difficult, I thought, "blame the problem? You're just not well prepared!" That would be evidence to prove the point, eh?

luv'nAustin--I hope you do bring that tire in and practice with it. When you know you can change it yourself, you'll know you can go anywhere you want, alone or together. It's a great feeling.

Today looks beautiful. I just remembered that it's a short day at the clinic. We'll see what meetings I need to attend, and maybe I can get in a longer ride after clinic, before night call at the hospital. :D

CorsairMac
06-14-2006, 10:25 AM
Today looks beautiful. I just remembered that it's a short day at the clinic. We'll see what meetings I need to attend, and maybe I can get in a longer ride after clinic, before night call at the hospital. :D


and sending good thoughts your way that you will NOT have to change at tire again any time soon! :rolleyes:

CorsairMac
06-14-2006, 10:30 AM
oh and Luv? if it makes you feel any better - I changed several tires at home just to make sure I knew how to do it on the road....so the first time I was out riding with a buddy and got a flat - I was all thumbs trying to change that tire! ROFL...I couldn't get the tire off - I couldn't get the tube in - I couldn't get the tube pumped up. My buddy finally took over (at my request) coz I was so fumbling lousy! We laugh about it to this day! He figures I had never had an audience before and I had "stage" fright! lol

Nanci
06-14-2006, 11:25 AM
7.Each participant is individually responsible for repair and maintenance of own bike. Assistance by anyone other than race personnel will be grounds for immediate disqualification. This necessarily disallows the use of back-up bikes. Each cyclist should be prepared to handle any possible mechanical malfunction.

(I just read that disc wheels are prohibited. That's weird, could have sworn I'd seen them...)

Also:

6.No individual support allowed. Ample aid and food stations will be provided. Friends, family members, coaches or supporters of any type may not bike or drive alongside contestant, may not pass food or other items to contestant and should be warned to stay completely clear of all participants to avoid the disqualification of a participant.
It is incumbent upon each contestant to immediately reject any attempt to assist, follow or escort.

plantluvver
06-18-2006, 05:56 PM
Exactly;)

:D ROTLF:D